Why stop fulvic and humic supplementation?

Mcgician

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
First off, I use Dutch Master Gold line nutrients, but since I wasn't able to get a clear answer from them I called General Hydroponics today to ask them why they don't recommend using Diamond Nectar past the transition stage going into flower. What they told me was that the fulvic/humic acids in the solution would lead to too much absorbtion of nitrogen and an overall stretching in height. I'm going to take their word for it, as they most likely have more evidence to draw these conclusions than I, but it seems odd that anything that breaks down nutrients into more soluble compounds that are more easily absorbed by the root system would be something you'd want to omit from your hydroponic nutrient solution regardless of what stage the plants were feeding. I wish I had more experience dealing with test groups with this particular supplement, but I don't. Does anyone have any experienced input on this?
 
Tokey21

Tokey21

Member
I use fulvic acid start to finish in an ebb'n'flow system, but it is not the product you mentioned. It is pure fulvic. I use humic acid, again a pure blend of humic acid and leonardite, early in veg stage, as it seems to promote alot of bushy growth. Your product seems to contain both, which is why they may be telling you to stop using it at X time. Hope this helps
 
tea tree

tea tree

Well-Known Member
thanks for calling them on that. I have the same question. I was looking around and I love my growth but I was wondering what else they had to say. I use the nute calculator and am getting some Diamond nectar soon. Wondred why they dont add the Daimond nectar. Also too much N in flower will slow down and hinder flowers on plants. That could be it too. I wondered if I should use liquid karma too but I think I will just stick with diamond nectar.
 
Mcgician

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
tea tree said:
thanks for calling them on that. I have the same question. I was looking around and I love my growth but I was wondering what else they had to say. I use the nute calculator and am getting some Diamond nectar soon. Wondred why they dont add the Daimond nectar. Also too much N in flower will slow down and hinder flowers on plants. That could be it too. I wondered if I should use liquid karma too but I think I will just stick with diamond nectar.
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No problem. They recommend using their Floralicious Plus instead of Diamond Nectar. The Diamond Nectar, from what I have researched, is mostly fulvic in it's composition whereas the Floralicious Plus is a humic based supplement....along with seaweed extract and amino acids. I'm using this now instead, and will soon have tangible results to give as feedback.
 
tea tree

tea tree

Well-Known Member
that is the reason that I wanted to use liquid karma. Humics. Also B1 and other things. Plus it has so many other uses. I also think it might be more water soluble from what i heard about other gh organic things like flora nova. I may use drippers soon. Humics are reported to give a 36 % gain from a well known test apparently as various sources have reported the same thing. Liquid karma is a swear by. I got confused with hope that fulvics also had humates in there, at least in diamond nectar. I am wearing GH three part pajamas to bed and decals on my truck I am such a fan. But liquid karma is a long staple, even if 23 bucks for the smallest bottle, lol, I am fond of supplents under 20 bucks. Gl.
 
Mcgician

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
tea tree said:
that is the reason that I wanted to use liquid karma. Humics. Also B1 and other things. Plus it has so many other uses. I also think it might be more water soluble from what i heard about other gh organic things like flora nova. I may use drippers soon. Humics are reported to give a 36 % gain from a well known test apparently as various sources have reported the same thing. Liquid karma is a swear by. I got confused with hope that fulvics also had humates in there, at least in diamond nectar. I am wearing GH three part pajamas to bed and decals on my truck I am such a fan. But liquid karma is a long staple, even if 23 bucks for the smallest bottle, lol, I am fond of supplents under 20 bucks. Gl.
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I don't care what anyone else tells you, this is some valuable information. Thanks.
 
I

Imaulle

Well-Known Member
here is my 5 week old plant using only $4.99 worth of ferts.

Fuck the bud boosters and the high priced brand products that claim to double and triple bud density. it's all marketing bullshit!

 
Mcgician

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
Imaulle said:
here is my 5 week old plant using only $4.99 worth of ferts.

Fuck the bud boosters and the high priced brand products that claim to double and triple bud density. it's all marketing bullshit!

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Nice plant. What strain is that? It's NOT all marketing BS though. Just a simple browse through youtube videos will show you the difference PGRs, plant hormones, and phtoestrogens make. Pretty cool to watch under the microscope btw. :leaf:
 
Mcgician

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
Well, I've been doing some digging into this subject and it appears that House and Garden puts fulvic acid into their regular nutrient formula, which is why you don't see additional additives like those from other companies. If you follow Advanced Nutrients' feeding schedule, if you use Overdrive or Big Bud, you'll eventually find that you're adding fulvic and humic acids by using those as well. In the end, the only manufacturer that I know of that omits fulvics completely during flowering is GH. They recommend (according to their advanced feeding chart) to stop using Diamond Nectar at the onset of the flowering stage, and switch to Floralicious Plus. This product is a humic additive, along with adding beneficial microbes and sea kelp extract. Whether or not this is in fact BETTER than going with a fulvic additive, only trial testing can determine. Before I knew NOT to use Diamond Nectar during flowering, I continued to use it. My buds developed well, but they definitely seemed to take longer to finish. This seems to be the overall consensus from some of the brainpicking I've done at several different hydro shops and from those who have enough growing experience to give credible advice. IMO, there seems to be no reason to stop fulvic supplementation other than if you're trying to allow the plants to finish faster. What means more to you, yield size, quality, or time? Only you can decide. I hope that helps.
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
Fulvic and humic acids are essentially natural chelates. They ease and speed some transitions in the nitrogen food chain. Normally roots uptake their nitrogen in the form of nitrates. The problem here is that ammonium nitrogen is more readily taken up by the plants roots when there are humic and fulvic acids present. The sign that this is happening is that the roots start releasing H+ ions to maintain a balance and this causes a daily large lowering of the nutrient pH. Normally when this happens is only under low light conditions such early growth and during budding if there is dense foliage or dense buds. For anyone to say this causes stretching or soft foliage from too much nitrogen is a bit far fetched as the ammonium is taken up instead of nitrate not in addition to nitrate. Typically this is not a problem with chemical hydroponic fertilizers because nearly all manufacturers keep the level of ammonium nitrogen very low (less that 15% of the total nitrogen). Personally I would not use fulvic or humus (amino acids) with any nutrient except organics (and they are present there already in most orgainic formulas natuarally) and it would not matter with them at what stage of growth they were used as the would be beneficial at all stages. Thhe only time I would recommend Humic or Fulvic acids with chemical hydroponics is with cloning and and very early vegetative growth by seeds or cloning. At an other time the chemical chelates (EDTA, EPTA, EDDHA) perform better with less adverse side effects.
 
Mcgician

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
fatman7574 said:
Fulvic and humic acids are essentially natural chelates. They ease and speed some transitions in the nitrogen food chain. Normally roots uptake their nitrogen in the form of nitrates. The problem here is that ammonium nitrogen is more readily taken up by the plants roots when there are humic and fulvic acids present. The sign that this is happening is that the roots start releasing H+ ions to maintain a balance and this causes a daily large lowering of the nutrient pH. Normally when this happens is only under low light conditions such early growth and during budding if there is dense foliage or dense buds. For anyone to say this causes stretching or soft foliage from too much nitrogen is a bit far fetched as the ammonium is taken up instead of nitrate not in addition to nitrate. Typically this is not a problem with chemical hydroponic fertilizers because nearly all manufacturers keep the level of ammonium nitrogen very low (less that 15% of the total nitrogen). Personally I would not use fulvic or humus (amino acids) with any nutrient except organics (and they are present there already in most orgainic formulas natuarally) and it would not matter with them at what stage of growth they were used as the would be beneficial at all stages. Thhe only time I would recommend Humic or Fulvic acids with chemical hydroponics is with cloning and and very early vegetative growth by seeds or cloning. At an other time the chemical chelates (EDTA, EPTA, EDDHA) perform better with less adverse side effects.
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Thanks for the great feedback once again fatman. I am curious what adverse side effects you're talking about though. Btw, why does nitrogen get special attention compared to other nutrients when fulvic acid gets brought up? Is it because it has a higher molecular weight? Wouldn't it also stand to reason that all the other elements would benefit from the use of fulvic acid for better absorbtion? Educate me. :-)
 
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