Why Hydroponic chemical is worth more then Organic!
- Thread starter hexthat
- Start date
SpicySativa
Well-Known Member
SpicySativa
Well-Known Member
This one describes how root exudates play a role in the formation of mycorrhiza...
http://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/abs/10.1094/MPMI.2000.13.6.693
Fun times.
http://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/abs/10.1094/MPMI.2000.13.6.693
Fun times.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
If your all-caps condition is applied to hydro, your objections disappear. But both camps are equally at risk of being swayed by fancy rainbow graphics in the hydro store. I've seen'em on both sides of the aisle: full hydro and soil/organic, gaudily selling various degrees of ophidian lubricant. On the practical plane both have their constellations of advantages or features. Hydro is agile and appeals to the tinkerer. Soil/organic is stable, low-maintenance and appeals to the traditionalist. Jmo. cnThats just the thing... With hydroponics, you can pump the plant with way more nutrients than it needs because you are applying nutrients in salt form. When they mix in water, they break into their ionic form. This means the plant can't "drink" without guzzling down whatever ions you've dumped into your res. In organics (IF DONE PROPERLY) the plant is in full control of what it takes in. By releasing specific exudates (high-energy carbon based foods for microlife) the plant is able to attract the appropriate microbiology to its root zone. This microlife (bact, fung, arch, Protozoa, nematodes, etc) then releases only the nutrients the plant has "requested" by releasing a certain exudate. Get it set up properly, and you cruise through entire seasons with very few additions or issues. No pH checking, no EC checking, no res temp to monitor, no pumps to break, no risk of flooding, etc.
Bottom line is we're all gonna do what works for us. I suggest you all at least give it a try.
SpicySativa
Well-Known Member
Yeah... Hydro stores are a joke, if you ask me. They carry a fantastic variety of high potency snake oil. :/
ru4r34l
Well-Known Member
They are not a joke if you stay away from the "snake oils", and buy the products your plants need. All manafacturers/retail outlets use marketing to sell products; the hydroponic (marijuana) industry is no different and if you expected it to be shame on you!
Usually grow shops carry the full range of products, cheap and "worthwile" through to expensive and "snake oil"; the consumer needs to be educated to but the correct product.
regards,
SpicySativa
Well-Known Member
I agree. Its always funny when I see someone buying a $90 tub of mycorrhiza and a $40 tub of some schmancy 0-50-50 or whatever "bulking agent" or "Bud explosion" or whatnot. I feel like telling them "you know... the thing in your left hand will actually kill the thing in your right hand"... Ha!They are not a joke if you stay away from the "snake oils", and buy the products your plants need. All manafacturers/retail outlets use marketing to sell products; the hydroponic (marijuana) industry is no different and if you expected it to be shame on you!
Usually grow shops carry the full range of products, cheap and "worthwile" through to expensive and "snake oil"; the consumer needs to be educated to but the correct product.
regards,
Kite High
Well-Known Member
would be applicable to outdoors and feasible, but in containers NOT...NOT enough time for all that to occur, resources to sustain such nor volume to properly establish, leaving the grower to having to resort to "organic" fertilizer additions....whereas with the synthetics no need to worry about keeping two things alive, only the plant, and the plant also only uses what it needs or wants....the reasoning for the bennies and mychos becoming dormant in soils with synthetics is because they are not needed as the plant is able to get the ready to go nutrients on its own....imo organic is a major pia with little to no way of correcting...just try fixing an over application of blood meal for instance...idk where you get this thinking that synths allow force feeding of plants as they do not...it still will only take what it needs and if overfed even in soiless a simple flushing of the medium will correct it....not the case with organics in containers...Thats just the thing... With hydroponics, you can pump the plant with way more nutrients than it needs because you are applying nutrients in salt form. When they mix in water, they break into their ionic form. This means the plant can't "drink" without guzzling down whatever ions you've dumped into your res. In organics (IF DONE PROPERLY) the plant is in full control of what it takes in. By releasing specific exudates (high-energy carbon based foods for microlife) the plant is able to attract the appropriate microbiology to its root zone. This microlife (bact, fung, arch, Protozoa, nematodes, etc) then releases only the nutrients the plant has "requested" by releasing a certain exudate. Get it set up properly, and you cruise through entire seasons with very few additions or issues. No pH checking, no EC checking, no res temp to monitor, no pumps to break, no risk of flooding, etc.
Bottom line is we're all gonna do what works for us. I suggest you all at least give it a try
SpicySativa
Well-Known Member
The soil food web very much DOES apply to organic gardening in containers if you build your soil in advance and make sure it is inoculated with beneficial life. The "organic fertilizers" you speak of (blood, bone, alfalfa, compost, kelp, molasses, etc) are food for the life in your soil, thus, they are a very real part of a living soil food web within your bucket of soil. Can you burn a plant with blood meal? Sure you can, but I bet you won't do it twice. There's always a learning curve whatever method you choose.
Kite High
Well-Known Member
well imo more trouble for no benefits...slower growth , less yield, and even taste and smell have not been better so why the extra trouble and lil to no way of correcting... and excuse me but no you cannot build your web in a container...was already stated in previous post...
Mithrandir420
Well-Known Member
It's kinda like Mac Vs. PC... Ford vs. Chevy... no matter what side you come down on and your reasons why, in the end they both do the same thing, with the real difference and the greatest variable being the operator.
SpicySativa
Well-Known Member
Ok... So I mix a soil with alfalfa in it, then I apply a compost tea. Chunks of aflalfa are obviously too big for the plant to "eat". Instead, bacteria eat the alfalfa, then protazoa eat the bacteria, then the protazoa crap out plant available nutrition, right in the root zone. Explain to me how that is NOT a soil food web? Do you have any scientific research to back this up? Published articles? Anything? Have you ever taken a class in microbiology? Biology? Chemistry? Botany? Soil science? Or are you just regurgitating stuff you've read on hydroponics forums? Not sure why I'm even wasting my time here...
Kite High
Well-Known Member
I do not know why you are either...you obviously knowitall already so must be trying to educate us know nothings I presume....fyi I have been doing this since before any of these stupid ass forums with these knowitalls (see above) even existed...as again you fail to see my point...why bother with feeding bennies then have them feed the plants when you can just feed the plants...you made my point also when you stated you have to add shit to keep it going ...it is not a complete nor sustainable web in containers...I really hope you stop wasting your time...also do you not realize that if we stopped using Chems as you desire in Agriculture half the world will not get food? oh yeah you dont care about that...no you worried about the dying swimming dogs...laughable if it wasn't so idiotic
I minored in chemistry obtaining my bs in computer science...
Have taken 5 horticultural classes over 4 years and am currently studying botany via personal instruction by a botanist who possesses a masters and teaches at the University...and happens to be my neighbor and friend
I do not have to ask you the same as it is blindingly apparent you do not and are the interweb parrot
Kite High
Well-Known Member
obviously you do not know much about cannabis genetics either as you use subfool's pollen chunking pheno hell strains...have fun with that...to quote you
Kite High
Well-Known Member
as stated before you don't know jack...you call this nice? YELLOW IS NOT GOOD FOOL...done with your idiocy...have a great existence
SpicySativa
Well-Known Member
I don't "knowitall". No one does. That's why I went to school (masters degree in Environmental Engineering) and why I continue to read peer reviewed scientific literature. I'll never knowitall, but I have learned a lot. These days, I get paid to use soil microbiology to clean up after oil and chemical spills, and that's just one of the amazing things these little creatures can do.
Do I want the whole world to instantly stop using chemical fertilizers? Absolutely not. With all the chemicals that have been applied to our farm fields over the last few decades, it would take a LONG time to restore any kind of micro community capable of sustaining crops. It has to be done bit by bit, field by field. Some farmers out there are making that commitment, and my hat goes off to them. You're putting words in my mouth saying I are more about swimming dogs than people...
Its funny (in a twisted way)... In my profession, these farm fields are usually referred to as "non-point" sources of polution, because of all the nitrates, herbicides, fungicides, pesticides, fumitoxins, etc that run off the property when it rains...
I enjoy a good debate, but let's keep it (mostly) civil.
Do I want the whole world to instantly stop using chemical fertilizers? Absolutely not. With all the chemicals that have been applied to our farm fields over the last few decades, it would take a LONG time to restore any kind of micro community capable of sustaining crops. It has to be done bit by bit, field by field. Some farmers out there are making that commitment, and my hat goes off to them. You're putting words in my mouth saying I are more about swimming dogs than people...
Its funny (in a twisted way)... In my profession, these farm fields are usually referred to as "non-point" sources of polution, because of all the nitrates, herbicides, fungicides, pesticides, fumitoxins, etc that run off the property when it rains...
I enjoy a good debate, but let's keep it (mostly) civil.
Kite High
Well-Known Member
keep on growing yellow plants in shit with shit genetics ....read above quote again...later
as stated before you don't know jack...you call this nice? YELLOW IS NOT GOOD FOOL...done with your idiocy...have a great existence
SpicySativa
Well-Known Member
You crack me up...
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Hydro massively out yields organics, so there is that too.
You get faster growing plants which are capable of producing bigger, denser buds. I don't pretend to know the biology behind this, just the results.
It's pretty logical though. I can use a nitrogen booster in hydro, making all the nitrogen the plant can use available, then wash out my growing medium so the plants don't continue to uptake more nitrogen in flowering. You can't really do that with organics.
Also you can't get a real legit organic life cultures with indoor growing like you can with outdoor growing. You end up using bottled nutrients anyways, so why not just do hydro?
I see no advantage to growing organics indoors at all, only downside and additional expense. The "it tastes better argument" is false. A lot of hydro tastes bad because it's grown poorly. Properly grown hydro tastes fantastic.
All you're getting for that additional expense and lowered yield is buds with a different look to them. That look is considered less desirable in much of the state.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
PC vs mac is a good analogy. Like a mac, with organics you're paying a whole lot more for a look while getting less in return.