Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevationor our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

“Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as awhole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, itstresses Original Virtue”

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral senseequal to God’s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is becomeas one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our falland all of us inheriting our forefather’s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/dictionaries/dict_meaning.php?source=1&wid=T0001304

“They prove the loss not only of innocence but of originalrighteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God.”

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, norshall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be putto death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV)The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of thefather, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness ofthe righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall beupon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of thefathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice.[Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

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None of the above, It was Alliens

Ringsixty said:

None of the above, It was Alliens

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Ancient Alien theorists believe the answer is yes.

How about "neither"? Imo the fail is built right into the 1st Commandment, which generates a false and polarizing dichotomy.

cannabineer said:

How about "neither"? Imo the fail is built right into the 1st Commandment, which generates a false and polarizing dichotomy.

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Saying so allows for the Christian view to continue and that view has been used to deny women equality forever. Yep. Le's not judge the morality of the two beliefs. That will serve women well. Not. Regards DL

The original post brings forth a legitimate opportunity for discussion.
Although I rather not participate in this type of discussion because I don't subscribe to either faith,
it's annoying to see people shoot down postings like this.

Not exactly the open-minded community or friendliness I was expecting from rollitup since I've been here.
I guess it comes with the territory in such a large community, nevertheless, disappointing.

cosmolove said:

The original post brings forth a legitimate opportunity for discussion.
Although I rather not participate in this type of discussion because I don't subscribe to either faith,
it's annoying to see people shoot down postings like this.

Not exactly the open-minded community or friendliness I was expecting from rollitup since I've been here.
I guess it comes with the territory in such a large community, nevertheless, disappointing.

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I half expect such whenever religion or politics are at issue. Most, regardless of belief or non-belief, do not recognize the harm done by religions. Non-believers do not recognize the harm they do by not actively fighting religions that do harm. For evil to grow etc. Regards DL

So you are one of those dudes that shows up at a party, and ends up cornering some poor christian and hammering him down on how illogical and stupid he is. You sir, are an ass, and here I was defending you !!

"Non-believers do not recognize the harm they do by not actively fighting religions that do harm."

cosmolove said:

So you are one of those dudes that shows up at a party, and ends up cornering some poor christian and hammering him down on how illogical and stupid he is. You sir, are an ass, and here I was defending you !!

"Non-believers do not recognize the harm they do by not actively fighting religions that do harm."

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A party is not a debate forumand I find it strange that you would resent my telling the truth aboutnon-believers and atheists.

I guess you have yet tonotice that atheists who do have a sense of social conscience are beginning tostart “ churches” to fight the evils of religion.

It is my view that all rightwing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists,--- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parentreligions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and theright wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talkinganimals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs infantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUCw4&feature=PlayList&p=5123864A5243470E&index=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm totheir own.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI&feature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 9
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Zg_BVzw&feature=related

For evil to grow my friends,all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. Itis your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

Now when you say fight, what do you mean exactly?

Truth is abstract, we are here to discuss our opinions not claim that we hold absolute truth and then "find it strange" if someone disagrees.

How about nobody has it right.

Not a g'damn single one of us.

cosmolove said:

Now when you say fight, what do you mean exactly?

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It is a general term that to me means resist joining, supporting and advocate against. I fight with words and by trying to move people away from religions. Regards DL

Wilksey said:

How about nobody has it right.

Not a g'damn single one of us.

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Did these women have it wrong? [video=youtube;jqN8EYIIR3g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related[/video] Regards DL

cosmolove said:

Truth is abstract, we are here to discuss our opinions not claim that we hold absolute truth and then "find it strange" if someone disagrees.

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The absolute truth is an absolute contradiction. "The truth is, there is no truth"

Greatest I am said:

Saying so allows for the Christian view to continue and that view has been used to deny women equality forever. Yep. Le's not judge the morality of the two beliefs. That will serve women well. Not. Regards DL

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Two cavils.
a) Most Christian denominations embrace the social and moral equality of women. I say you are tying the noose of dogma overly tight.
2) My excoriation of the First Commandment neither excludes nor expiates the Jews.

Zaehet Strife said:

The absolute truth is an absolute contradiction. "The truth is, there is no truth"

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That is definitely a lie. Regards DL

There are things that are necessarily true.

Greatest I am said:

That is definitely a lie. Regards DL

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I may have what i think is truth, you may have what you think is truth, everyone on this planet may have their own subjective version of their own truth...


But objective truth, 100% undeniable, 100% correct, 100% without a single doubt truth, does not exist. Which brings us back to the contradiction. That "the truth is, there is no truth".

You can have your truth, we can have our own truth, but just because we make something our truth, does not make it "the" truth. It merely makes it what we THINK the truth is...


And for the most part, what we THINK the truth is... isn't really the truth, just part of it.