Who Believes In God?

mountainSpliff said:

Thanks for the info. You should give Stephen Baxter's Evolution a try. He ventures into what could have been and what might happen. It's based on fact yet has hints of fiction to stir the imagination.

I may be a layman but I have read a book or two.

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I'll look into it though i'm more of a Darwin, Dawkins, Dennett kind of reader.

who s to say that the bible and religion and all ths non-sense..no offense..wasnt just made up to give the people an answer they didnt have..like if youre a little kid and ur other little friend asks u were babies come from and u have no idea...what do u tell them..if u tell them i dont know dont u think theyd get upset...especially as adults if we're looking towards public figures like the government for answers and theyre jus telling us.."We dont know" we're gonna get a little chaotic...jus the relgion is to keep us actualy having an answer instead of loking dumbfounded and oblivious...but thats what i think..i dont believe in god but i dont have anything against people who do.i just like to debate

TheTokenOne said:

who s to say that the bible and religion and all ths non-sense..no offense..wasnt just made up to give the people an answer they didnt have..like if youre a little kid and ur other little friend asks u were babies come from and u have no idea...what do u tell them..if u tell them i dont know dont u think theyd get upset...especially as adults if we're looking towards public figures like the government for answers and theyre jus telling us.."We dont know" we're gonna get a little chaotic...jus the relgion is to keep us actualy having an answer instead of loking dumbfounded and oblivious...but thats what i think..i dont believe in god but i dont have anything against people who do.i just like to debate

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I also enjoy discussing/debating about this. I agree - there doesn't appear to me to be any rational arguments for a belief in a higher power (let alone a beard-sporting God) that hasn't been persuasively argued already. Unfortunately, most of the responses comes from the various sciences. And in order to understand the explanation, you have to study and go to school for a long time or take the scientists' answers "on faith". And therein lies the problem.

That is why you have folks saying things like - atheists have faith too - they have faith in science. But this is obviously bullshit if you consider faith "believing something without or in spite of the evidence". Science is the opposite of faith. Science experiments can be replicated by other scientists (or laymen) with proper training.

Belief in God seems to break down along these lines...
1) complete and utter belief in the infallible and everlasting word of god as set forth in his special book (bible, koran, torah, etc..) (fundamentalists/zealots)
2) belief in god from number 1 but "the book" is to be taken allegorically (moderates)
3) belief in a bastardized version of 2 - belief in a benign, benevolent god that watches over us and cares what happens and occasionally intervenes
4) similar to number 3 but replaces the word "god" with the phrase "higher power" or "force"
5) belief in higher power that started the universe but hasn't intervened since
6) belief in some intangible force energy because there "has" to be something bigger than us
7) there is also the unflappable belief that there isn't a god

Numbers 1-4 are pretty easily refuted by what we know about the world today. numbers 5 and 6 are about the only "safe" places for god to exist but science is closing those gaps as well.

and as much as i'm sympathetic with number 7, i think this is a mistaken view as well. Especially since we don't know if there are other universes (dimensions) or if there is something completely unexpected on the horizon of our discoveries.

I would digress and point out those who are trying to marry quantum mechanics with eastern philosophy i have only this to say: just because quantum mechanic scientists and eastern philosophers are equally difficult to understand and both seem to be speaking nonsense or talking in circles, doesn't mean they are saying the same thing. I'm talking to you Deepak Chopra you great gaseous wind bag!

OK rant over now...

Just look in your heart for the truth and forget doctrine and schooling.
Real belief and faith cannot be taught or read in a book and has nothing to do with the writings or teachings written in an old book.
The universe is impossible,work it out for yourselves

The way parents teach their kids is really fucked up.... parents taught me all about God, Jesus, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy. Then they slowly started taking all of my imaginary friends away... first it was the Tooth Fairy; then the Easter Bunny; oh and by the way, son, Santa is fake too; but God... now that is a different story altogether.

It's no wonder some people come away from life saying god must be a fake too.

So in the interest of fairness, I would like to see the following polls, please...

Do you believe in Santa Claus?

Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy?

Do you believe in the Easter Bunny?

Do you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Do you believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn?

I personally like the concept of the Church of Santa Claus, where we give out presents every Sunday! That's a service I'd go to!

VG

Have you ever seen the Richard Dawkin's video "The Root of All Evil" and "The Virus of Faith" (part 2)? It is a combination of The Selfish Gene and became The God Delusion (great books btw).

He expresses a sentiment very close to what you are saying. In a nutshell, he says that teaching children that we suffer everlasting torment inflicted by God forever and ever in a world without end, without a shred of evidence, is a form of child abuse.

He goes on to say that we would be appalled to hear parents talk about their children as if they were Democrats or Republicans (Americanized) but think nothing of calling a baby a Christian or Muslim.

what do the Jesuits say? Something like give me the boy until he is seven and I will give you the man.

VintageGrow said:

The way parents teach their kids is really fucked up.... parents taught me all about God, Jesus, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy. Then they slowly started taking all of my imaginary friends away... first it was the Tooth Fairy; then the Easter Bunny; oh and by the way, son, Santa is fake too; but God... now that is a different story altogether.

It's no wonder some people come away from life saying god must be a fake too.

So in the interest of fairness, I would like to see the following polls, please...

Do you believe in Santa Claus?

Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy?

Do you believe in the Easter Bunny?

Do you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Do you believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn?

I personally like the concept of the Church of Santa Claus, where we give out presents every Sunday! That's a service I'd go to!

VG

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natmoon said:

Just look in your heart for the truth and forget doctrine and schooling.
Real belief and faith cannot be taught or read in a book and has nothing to do with the writings or teachings written in an old book.
The universe is impossible,work it out for yourselves

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I disagree that the universe is impossible - we are here. If you meant the universe is impossible to understand, I still disagree. There is a lot we don't know but a brief overview of the latest cosmology/astrophysics may surprise you with what we do know and understand about our universe.

But the point i would most like to make is this: we are free to believe what we want and that is the way it should be. However, when it comes time to make laws, rules, regulations, policy (both foreign and domestic) we should be basing those decisions on reality. Not what we think or believe, but what is real by virtue of the evidence.

I'll use something we can all understand to illustrate what i'm talking about: marijuana laws - as long as people continue to think that marijuana is devil weed - it will remain illegal. Most of us understand that marijuana was demonized into being illegal without a shred of evidence. Wouldn't it have been better to study marijuana and come to real conclusions before making arbitrary laws based on lies and myths instead of on proof and evidence? That way the people who want to believe that it is the devil's weed are free to believe so but they have zero influence on making marijuana policy.

So we should be and remain free to choose what we want to believe. But we should not be free to force our beliefs on others without evidence. And when beliefs conflict with reality then reality should win out - not the other way around.

No the universe "is" impossible as soon as you realize this you will come to only one possible logical understanding and when you do everything will become "TaB cleaR"

natmoon said:

No the universe "is" impossible as soon as you realize this you will come to only one possible logical understanding and when you do everything will become "TaB cleaR"

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hey natmoon - i know "you" are impossible!

email468 said:

hey natmoon - i know "you" are impossible!

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Of course i am.
So are you.
Everything is impossible still yet made possible.
I have planted this in your mind and now it will grow.
Sorry about that lol

natmoon said:

Of course i am.
So are you.
Everything is impossible still yet made possible.
I have planted this in your mind and now it will grow.
Sorry about that lol

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thanks man - as you could obviously tell, i needed a good laugh and to lighten (and light) the fuck up.

email468 said:

thanks man - as you could obviously tell, i needed a good laugh and to lighten (and light) the fuck up.

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LOL.
Anyway i was wondering if you could tell me your theory on how the universe was created and who or what did it and who made them and so on for an infinite number of times?

I was wondering if you could tell me who made the actual first thing/being and if so how could they ever actually really be the first thing?

Quoting loops of infinity is not acceptable as i would also need to know who made the loops in the first place and who made them and how they did it.

Also of note is the actual pure mathematical precision and exactness needed to actually pull of the creation of a universe.
There is no spoon

natmoon said:

LOL.
Anyway i was wondering if you could tell me your theory on how the universe was created and who or what did it and who made them and so on for an infinite number of times?

I was wondering if you could tell me who made the actual first thing/being and if so how could they ever actually really be the first thing?

Quoting loops of infinity is not acceptable as i would also need to know who made the loops in the first place and who made them and how they did it.

Also of note is the actual pure mathematical precision and exactness needed to actually pull of the creation of a universe.
There is no spoon

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I currently have no theory on how the universe was created/began/started to expand, nor do i have a theory regarding the first thing. I am only familiar with theories on seconds after "the singularity". Except for string theory but until we are able to test some of its predictions, i call it string philosophy.

email468 said:

I currently have no theory on how the universe was created/began/started to expand, nor do i have a theory regarding the first thing. I am only familiar with theories on seconds after "the singularity". Except for string theory but until we are able to test some of its predictions, i call it string philosophy.

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I understand string theory.
I made a song called galaxy string theory about 2 years or so ago.
The way the universe is constructed and string theory has nothing to do with the irrefutable and basically indisputable fact that the universe itself and all life is in fact impossible and unexplainable and illogical and could have only come from the mind of God

P.S. Please don't confuse me with a bible basher i choose to believe some of the things that Jesus said and i choose to believe that he had opened his mind somehow,probably with 9 pounds of cannabis oil

I am open minded and like to learn about everything that i can and i do not believe in the moronic ramblings of many organized religions.

As far as i am concerned Jesus healed with his opened mind,a mind that we all have,its a real shame that we only have limited use of its full potential,and cannabis oil,he talked to much and gave the sacred oil to the poor so they killed him.
The truth is in your heart and mind and it is the same for us all and nothing has changed and the fight is still the same fight today as it was 1965 years ago

iblazethatkush said:

I just found this, this is what I was talking about earlier. YouTube - Roman Catholicism: From Hell
Be careful of religion, my brothers and sisters. Most of it will lead you away from the path of God. Be strong in your faith and make sure you do not let yourself be decieved from the righteous path

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How the fuck did this become an evolution thread. Doesn't anybody else here enjoy talking about our heavenly father? Or, at least, the influence the devil has on many of our religions? Such as I pointed out in my last post.

W/e this poll already answered my question. Potheads are a bunch of heathens

iblazethatkush said:

How the fuck did this become an evolution thread. Doesn't anybody else here enjoy talking about our heavenly father? Or, at least, the influence the devil has on many of our religions? Such as I pointed out in my last post.

W/e this poll already answered my question. Potheads are a bunch of heathens

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Do you think that God had no part in evolution?
I think that we blame the devil and really its our own mistakes we want to try to cover up and take no responsibility for and say the devil/weed/drugs/alcohol etc..and so on made us do it.
Because we don't admit to our mistakes being our own we make the same mistakes again and again

This is a real can of worms.

natmoon said:

Do you think that God had no part in evolution?
I think that we blame the devil and really its our own mistakes we want to try to cover up and take no responsibility for and say the devil/weed/drugs/alcohol etc..and so on made us do it.
Because we don't admit to our mistakes being our own we make the same mistakes again and again

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I'm not really convinced on evolution. So, that's a tough question. But, I believe you are mostly correct about the devil thing. It's a convenient excuse for many people to explain their own evil deeds. But, the devil does exist, don't be fooled. I can see his influence and feel it everywhere I go.

WidowMaker79 said:

This is a real can of worms.

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True. But, it's my thread. And I'm very hard to offend. So, if your easily offended this isn't the thread for you. Just warning ppl right now, even though, it's probably too late.

The rest of your comments refutes your first statement.

As I said (and will continue to say) you are free to believe what you like. You have no evidence however so I choose to believe differently.

And regardless of semantic tricks you choose, the universe is here and therefore not impossible. Sort of like the story of the supplicant approaching the Guru and the Guru telling the supplicant - everything is in your mind and nothing really exists. Supplicant whacks Guru in head with 2x4 and says well i guess that 2x4 didn't exist so that couldn't have hurt, right? and rightly goes to seek out new Guru.


I joke but i think you're confusing impossible with unlikely or statistically improbable.

natmoon said:

I understand string theory.
I made a song called galaxy string theory about 2 years or so ago.
The way the universe is constructed and string theory has nothing to do with the irrefutable and basically indisputable fact that the universe itself and all life is in fact impossible and unexplainable and illogical and could have only come from the mind of God

P.S. Please don't confuse me with a bible basher i choose to believe some of the things that Jesus said and i choose to believe that he had opened his mind somehow,probably with 9 pounds of cannabis oil

I am open minded and like to learn about everything that i can and i do not believe in the moronic ramblings of many organized religions.

As far as i am concerned Jesus healed with his opened mind,a mind that we all have,its a real shame that we only have limited use of its full potential,and cannabis oil,he talked to much and gave the sacred oil to the poor so they killed him.
The truth is in your heart and mind and it is the same for us all and nothing has changed and the fight is still the same fight today as it was 1965 years ago

Click to expand...