Where's those fish bone roots?

Hydrowannabe

Hydrowannabe

Well-Known Member
I've always heard that fish bone-like roots are what you want. I always get nice dense roots, but I rarely get those fish bone roots. Is there something special that I'm missing out on by not getting those fish bone roots (I've never seen anything wrong with the clones growing up? I clone with rockwood, bubble clones, aeroponic cloner. I'm thinking the issue might be in the fact that I have water running in my aero cloner. I keep the water level up pretty high in the bubble cloner, and I keep the rockwood pretty wet. Maybe I'm keeping things too wet? Thanks for reading my ramble. I don't know if it matters, but this my first grow in over 2 years and am trying to get things started again. Its surprising how much I've forgotten.
 

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hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
Hydrowannabe said:
I've always heard that fish bone-like roots are what you want. I always get nice dense roots, but I rarely get those fish bone roots. Is there something special that I'm missing out on by not getting those fish bone roots (I've never seen anything wrong with the clones growing up? I clone with rockwood, bubble clones, aeroponic cloner. I'm thinking the issue might be in the fact that I have water running in my aero cloner. I keep the water level up pretty high in the bubble cloner, and I keep the rockwood pretty wet. Maybe I'm keeping things too wet? Thanks for reading my ramble. I don't know if it matters, but this my first grow in over 2 years and am trying to get things started again. Its surprising how much I've forgotten.
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You’re complaining about those roots?
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
Hydrowannabe said:
I've always heard that fish bone-like roots are what you want. I always get nice dense roots, but I rarely get those fish bone roots. Is there something special that I'm missing out on by not getting those fish bone roots (I've never seen anything wrong with the clones growing up? I clone with rockwood, bubble clones, aeroponic cloner. I'm thinking the issue might be in the fact that I have water running in my aero cloner. I keep the water level up pretty high in the bubble cloner, and I keep the rockwood pretty wet. Maybe I'm keeping things too wet? Thanks for reading my ramble. I don't know if it matters, but this my first grow in over 2 years and am trying to get things started again. Its surprising how much I've forgotten.
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If you leave those in the cloner longer they'll start to branch laterally which is what gives them the fish bone appearance. They'll also do that after being transplanted. You just don't get to see it if you're growing in any kind of medium.
 
Hydrowannabe

Hydrowannabe

Well-Known Member
SchmoeJoe said:
If you leave those in the cloner longer they'll start to branch laterally which is what gives them the fish bone appearance. They'll also do that after being transplanted. You just don't get to see it if you're growing in any kind of medium.
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ok, makes sense, i just transplant them into their solo cups before i get to see the fish bone roots. thanks.
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
Hydrowannabe said:
no, not complaining at all. i was just wondering why i wasnt ever getting the "fish bone" style roots. i heard they take up nutrients better, therefore making better clones. again, i just "heard it" somewhere...a few times actually. but yea, not complaining
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Like said above just back in the cloner and check in a few. Those look healthy.
 
mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
You probably just need scrape the side of the stalk about an inch higher than you are doing, and more roots will come from out of the stalk where it's been scraped, just need to break a few of the outer fibers very lightly, and just scrape downwards and you will notice the fibers fraying off, I try and scrape a few here, a few there around the entire stalk, but just a few fibers on each side and then into a dirt cup, but in your case just throw them into the cloner.

There's nothing really special about the fish scale look to the root stalk, as roots surrounding the entire stalk will provide more stability to the base of the plant, but if you want your clones to have this type of root system then you must scrape off the stalk fibers on opposing ends of the bottom 2" or so of the clone cutting. One member here mentioned @Mechanicalbuds that he had success by tearing the leaf stem down the stalk of the plant, and he achieved removal of the fibers from the cutting in a similar way that scraping does, I haven't tried his method entirely just yet but his pictures he had posted showed some very vigorous growth, mechanicalbuds would be an excellent person to ask imo.

Those roots that you have there in the picture look well established, good job making nice thick roots like those, are you only allowing the roots to grow naturally from the bottom of the clone, or have you scraped a ring off of the bottom to achieve this type of growth?
 
Hydrowannabe

Hydrowannabe

Well-Known Member
mustbetribbin said:
You probably just need scrape the side of the stalk about an inch higher than you are doing, and more roots will come from out of the stalk where it's been scraped, just need to break a few of the outer fibers very lightly, and just scrape downwards and you will notice the fibers fraying off, I try and scrape a few here, a few there around the entire stalk, but just a few fibers on each side and then into a dirt cup, but in your case just throw them into the cloner.

There's nothing really special about the fish scale look to the root stalk, as roots surrounding the entire stalk will provide more stability to the base of the plant, but if you want your clones to have this type of root system then you must scrape off the stalk fibers on opposing ends of the bottom 2" or so of the clone cutting. One member here mentioned @Mechanicalbuds that he had success by tearing the leaf stem down the stalk of the plant, and he achieved removal of the fibers from the cutting in a similar way that scraping does, I haven't tried his method entirely just yet but his pictures he had posted showed some very vigorous growth, mechanicalbuds would be an excellent person to ask imo.

Those roots that you have there in the picture look well established, good job making nice thick roots like those, are you only allowing the roots to grow naturally from the bottom of the clone, or have you scraped a ring off of the bottom to achieve this type of growth?
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thanks for taking the time to post that information. yea, I almost always scrape a little around the the bottom, but I will try scraping a little more up on the stem. sometimes i split the stalk vertically with a razor. is that what you are talking about with mechanicalbuds method? again, thank you. its good to know theres nothing majorly special about the fishbone roots
 
Hydrowannabe

Hydrowannabe

Well-Known Member
Hydrowannabe said:
I've always heard that fish bone-like roots are what you want. I always get nice dense roots, but I rarely get those fish bone roots. Is there something special that I'm missing out on by not getting those fish bone roots (I've never seen anything wrong with the clones growing up? I clone with rockwood, bubble clones, aeroponic cloner. I'm thinking the issue might be in the fact that I have water running in my aero cloner. I keep the water level up pretty high in the bubble cloner, and I keep the rockwood pretty wet. Maybe I'm keeping things too wet? Thanks for reading my ramble. I don't know if it matters, but this my first grow in over 2 years and am trying to get things started again. Its surprising how much I've forgotten.
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***...that I have my water running in my aero cloner *24/7***
 
Mechanicalbuds

Mechanicalbuds

Active Member
Hey all! Ya, scraping does no good for me. Never has. The last time I cloned I pulled the nodes off and removed the strings complely, the roots exploded out the side. I was amazed! The pics are in another thread of cloning problems.
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
Mechanicalbuds said:
Hey all! Ya, scraping does no good for me. Never has. The last time I cloned I pulled the nodes off and removed the strings complely, the roots exploded out the side. I was amazed! The pics are in another thread of cloning problems.
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That's been exactly my experience. Scraping isn't very effective. Instead I pinch the top and leaf stem together at the node I want to expose and peel them back. Then, just like you said, clean it up of any fibers left hanging.
 
Mechanicalbuds

Mechanicalbuds

Active Member
Hydrowannabe said:
I've always heard that fish bone-like roots are what you want. I always get nice dense roots, but I rarely get those fish bone roots. Is there something special that I'm missing out on by not getting those fish bone roots (I've never seen anything wrong with the clones growing up? I clone with rockwood, bubble clones, aeroponic cloner. I'm thinking the issue might be in the fact that I have water running in my aero cloner. I keep the water level up pretty high in the bubble cloner, and I keep the rockwood pretty wet. Maybe I'm keeping things too wet? Thanks for reading my ramble. I don't know if it matters, but this my first grow in over 2 years and am trying to get things started again. Its surprising how much I've forgotten.
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Looks like the stalk swelled too. Did it swell before the roots appeared? I mentioned that in the other thread. I be live that to be something that is not good. Even tho some still swell, most dont.
 
mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
Hi Hydrowannabe, you are very welcome, glad I was able to point you in the right direction, I'm still not a complete expert myself but I am picking up information quickly and adapting them to my current grows, real time, so I try and help provide information as soon as I see working results from a said method in my own setup, for instance I cut 5 cuttings recently, all still standing tall one week later by following a few basic steps.

Here is a link to a recent thread that might be helpful to you, and it includes some recent posts by mechanicalbuds that might provide you with some information that you are seeking, the guy seemed to know his stuff in hydro.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/cloning-issues.994533/#post-15038754

Also I had recently heard of the splitting of the stalk down the center of the cutting vertically, but I haven't tried it myself yet, I think I will make an attempt to test this method on a couple cuttings the next go around to see how it works, if it helps to develop a larger root structure more rapidly then I'm all in on trying it out soon myself.

Looks like a few people have joined have joined the party, should get some good answers going now.
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
Mechanicalbuds said:
Looks like the stalk swelled too. Did it swell before the roots appeared? I mentioned that in the other thread. I be live that to be something that is not good. Even tho some still swell, most dont.
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It's pretty normal for them to develope a thick callous before rooting. Especially when using rooting compounds.
 
mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
SchmoeJoe said:
That's been exactly my experience. Scraping isn't very effective. Instead I pinch the top and leaf stem together at the node I want to expose and peel them back. Then, just like you said, clean it up of any fibers left hanging.
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Hi SchmoeJoe,

I had attempted the method that you mentioned recently, but I was not able to get the stem fibers to peel down from the several cuttings that I tried it out on, when I pulled the leaf stems downwards they just broke off each time and did not peel off any lower fibers like I had hoped for, this is why I went ahead and still scraped/scuffed a few fibers off where the stems otherwise would have peeled from, I was able to get one cutting to peel down but the others I had to perform some manual scraping like I've done with the others so far.

But thank you for replying, I do appreciate what others have said works better for them and hearing new input.:joint:
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
mustbetribbin said:
Hi SchmoeJoe,

I had attempted the method that you mentioned recently, but I was not able to get the stem fibers to peel down from the several cuttings that I tried it out on, when I pulled the leaf stems downwards they just broke off each time and did not peel off any lower fibers like I had hoped for, this is why I went ahead and still scraped/scuffed a few fibers off where the stems otherwise would have peeled from, I was able to get one cutting to peel down but the others I had to perform some manual scraping like I've done with the others so far.

But thank you for replying, I do appreciate what others have said works better for them and hearing new input.:joint:
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I have found that it's a bit of a pain with cuttings that have thinner or weaker stems.
 
Hydrowannabe

Hydrowannabe

Well-Known Member
Thank you all for the encouraging information. I'm still a little confused on what the difference is in peeling vs. scraping. Im guessing,....you pull down on a fan leaf slowly that
SchmoeJoe said:
I have found that it's a bit of a pain with cuttings that have thinner or weaker stems.
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I also prefer thicker, woodier clones...maybe because they look better when roots finally show....but ive heard that people have an easier time cloning thiner, less woody stems. i havent really noticed much of a difference other than cosmetically...like i said, the thicker clones tend to look better, thats all i know lol
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
Hydrowannabe said:
Thank you all for the encouraging information. I'm still a little confused on what the difference is in peeling vs. scraping. Im guessing,....you pull down on a fan leaf slowly that

I also prefer thicker, woodier clones...maybe because they look better when roots finally show....but ive heard that people have an easier time cloning thiner, less woody stems. i havent really noticed much of a difference other than cosmetically...like i said, the thicker clones tend to look better, thats all i know lol
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Lower growth clones easier but once you've got it down top growth will always produce a stronger growing vegetative plant faster and the difference between success rates ofclones from new/old growth should be next to nothing. I do find that more mature growth (thicker and/or harder stems) always roots better.
 
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