What's wrong with this picture?

M

mikey123

Member


The smaller plant is from an ancient seed of unknown variety and the bigger and more yellow plant is Blue Widow from a clone. Every single growing condition is exactly the same and the small plant looks like the most perfect looking plant I've ever seen while the Blue Widow looks pale green to yellow. It seems to be growing at a good rate at week 5 in the picture and some times it looks like it's just a lighter shade of green and I should quit worrying and some times it looks too yellow. The picture is in sunlight through a window with the camera set for sunlight. The large pot is 12" wide and 10" deep.

400W HPS 24 Hour, Fertilome Ultimate potting mix, Schultz 10-15-10 Plant Food Plus, 7 drops per quart every time you water. I water as needed. When the top looks and feels dry, maybe even a tiny crack where the dirt meets the pot, I dump in water fast using the top of the pot for a measuring cup. At this stage about 3/8 inch of level water is about right to get the bottom soil good and damp while not getting runoff. Sometimes I like to pour in enough to get some runoff. I've doing some double checking with a moisture meter and I doubt the watering is the problem Two ph meters agree my tap water is 7.0, fertilized water is 6.8, and the probes in the soil is 7.0.

With all the reading I've done it looks to me like the classic low Nitrogen but if you zoom into the bottom of the picture you can see yellow leaves that are burnt at the edges and tips. There are even some mid height branch leaves that look like this. How can it have low nitrogen and fertilizer burn at the same time? For about 3 days I bumped the fertilizer up to 10 drops per quart and it seemed to look greener but it could have been my imagination. I cut back to the normal mix because of the burn concerns. The perfect looking plant has only had the standard 7 drops and there are a couple leaves that have a tiny burn at the very tip so the 7 drops seems about right to me.

I'm really bugged about how sometimes it looks not so bad and sometimes not so good. I don't really want use expensive fertilizer but I could try Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro 9-3-6 if anyone thinks it's far superior than the Schultz fertilizer.

It looks like it might be improving as the roots are filling in but maybe it's just that the more yellow and burnt leaves are disappearing into the center of the bush.

Thanks :cool:
 
Labs Dexter

Labs Dexter

Well-Known Member
mikey123 said:


The smaller plant is from an ancient seed of unknown variety and the bigger and more yellow plant is Blue Widow from a clone. Every single growing condition is exactly the same and the small plant looks like the most perfect looking plant I've ever seen while the Blue Widow looks pale green to yellow. It seems to be growing at a good rate at week 5 in the picture and some times it looks like it's just a lighter shade of green and I should quit worrying and some times it looks too yellow. The picture is in sunlight through a window with the camera set for sunlight. The large pot is 12" wide and 10" deep.

400W HPS 24 Hour, Fertilome Ultimate potting mix, Schultz 10-15-10 Plant Food Plus, 7 drops per quart every time you water. I water as needed. When the top looks and feels dry, maybe even a tiny crack where the dirt meets the pot, I dump in water fast using the top of the pot for a measuring cup. At this stage about 3/8 inch of level water is about right to get the bottom soil good and damp while not getting runoff. Sometimes I like to pour in enough to get some runoff. I've doing some double checking with a moisture meter and I doubt the watering is the problem Two ph meters agree my tap water is 7.0, fertilized water is 6.8, and the probes in the soil is 7.0.

With all the reading I've done it looks to me like the classic low Nitrogen but if you zoom into the bottom of the picture you can see yellow leaves that are burnt at the edges and tips. There are even some mid height branch leaves that look like this. How can it have low nitrogen and fertilizer burn at the same time? For about 3 days I bumped the fertilizer up to 10 drops per quart and it seemed to look greener but it could have been my imagination. I cut back to the normal mix because of the burn concerns. The perfect looking plant has only had the standard 7 drops and there are a couple leaves that have a tiny burn at the very tip so the 7 drops seems about right to me.

I'm really bugged about how sometimes it looks not so bad and sometimes not so good. I don't really want use expensive fertilizer but I could try Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro 9-3-6 if anyone thinks it's far superior than the Schultz fertilizer.

It looks like it might be improving as the roots are filling in but maybe it's just that the more yellow and burnt leaves are disappearing into the center of the bush.

Thanks :cool:
Click to expand...

I am having issues with a holygrail 69 pritty similar to yours red stem and red leaf, pale leafs and stunted growth.

I was told to add fertilizer containing p and it's slowly going green again.

Try reduce your timer so they get even just two hours of dark and the plants will not droop as much, I'm no pro but I'm sure 24 hrs light is only good for seedlings up to 3 weeks from sprout.

They look terrible without no sleep, and will grow better with some sleep.
 
AllynIndoorFarms

AllynIndoorFarms

Member
mothersfinest said:
Nutrient lock out from over fert? Lack of oxy to the roots? try picking the pot up when you think it is time to water. Should be pretty darn light..
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This is the direction I'm leaning too. Lack of oxygen from watering too often. The volume of water/nutes you're adding sounds fine. The leaves look reasonably healthy but the lack of perkiness could be from the 24hr light or you may be overdoing it on the H2O. It's the smartest thing to address first too. If you see your plants daily, it would be very hard to do much harm under watering. Allowing them to dry to the point of beginning to droop would still be less stressful for them than piling on more nutes and being wrong.

If it doesn't help to let em dry out, double check the soil/nutrient contents to make sure you're getting enough cal/sulfur/mag. You should have plenty NPK with the parameters you've listed.
 
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Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
Lack of nitrogen ends up killing the lower leaves. Feed your plants before the yellow to death. Throw the moisture meter up in the air and shoot it with a shot gun. You tell when the plant need water by poking your finger in the soil and feeling for moisture, and by gently lifting the pot to see if its light. Buy a ppm meter and get some real food. Dyna grow is fine. Ppm meter and real food....yes.
 
apbx720

apbx720

Well-Known Member
Ill tell u exactly what it is... Its Mg deficiency from overwatering. Foliar w epsom salt 1-3tsp per gal and post back to me in a day or two about how the leaves are starting to perk back up
 
apbx720

apbx720

Well-Known Member
And dont water again til the pot feels extremely light almost as if yr picking up an empty pot
 
M

mikey123

Member
Thanks a lot for all the advice. I was thinking about cutting back the light but didn't know if that would trigger flowering. You say I can safely cut the light back to 22 hours right?

Maybe I didn't ask my main question very well. To me the left plant couldn't look more perfect. It looks a perfect shade of green to me but the blue widow doesn't look so perfect with the exact same growing conditions. Why is that? If I change anything I'll be changing something that is currently working perfect for one plant. That's my dilemma.
Labs Dexter said:
24 hrs light is only good for seedlings up to 3 weeks
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That's the one difference I can see. The small plant is about 3 weeks.

To the people who think over watering: Is that because of the way the plant looks or because what I said about watering? I just re-potted it about a week ago and I let it dry just slightly more than normal between watering and the root ball was very dry.

Thanks again. I'll have to spend some more time digesting all this.
 
Labs Dexter

Labs Dexter

Well-Known Member
mikey123 said:
Thanks a lot for all the advice. I was thinking about cutting back the light but didn't know if that would trigger flowering. You say I can safely cut the light back to 22 hours right?

You can go as far as 16 hrs I think minimum is 14 before you trigger flowering.
And as for your plants issues the dark hours should perk em both up, as for shades here is a bookmark of mine hope it helps you to the answer

http://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blog-cannabis-nutrient-and-deficiency-table-n88
Click to expand...
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
mikey123 said:
Maybe I didn't ask my main question very well. To me the left plant couldn't look more perfect.
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Not trying to make you feel bad, but it looks overwatered to me. As does the one on the right -- just longer, locking out N.

I would increase perlite 20% next time. Don't water until the container feels very light. Soil ph rises as it dries. If you keep it wet like a houseplant, you limit the ph range it experiences. Things like N and Mg are more available at higher pH. (See attached.).
 

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WestDenverPioneer

WestDenverPioneer

Well-Known Member
mikey123 said:
looks like the most perfect looking plant I've ever seen
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Neither one looks good. Soon the one on the left will look as poorly as the one on the right.

24hr lighting is not ideal.
Your containers are not ideal.
Your watering technique is not ideal.

I'd bet your roots are all located up top where you are watering. I'd bet the roots are avoiding the toxic middle area. It's toxic from slowly building up from watering without allowing for runoff. The nutrients just "lock up" in the middle where you aren't seeing, touching, or testing. Next time use aeration containers like Smart Pots. Learn to water from the bottom as well as the top when needed.

I would flush properly and allow it to dry. I would then feed properly. Get them healthy before changing off that silly 24-hour cycle. Once they are healthy go to 12-hours and follow through. Next time start them at 18-hours.
 
Labs Dexter

Labs Dexter

Well-Known Member
mikey123 said:
Thanks a lot Labs Dexter (that's a good link) and everyone else. I'll cut the light back two hours.
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You're welcome buddy,
The hours best to use 24 hrs while young seedlings upto week three, and clones until you get roots.

for vegg 18-6 on-off is good for older plant so they can have a nap, It will help with the drooping allot.

If a week into this 18-6 and the drooping has not stopped with the left smaller plant, then I would change your watering habits.

Plants roots need soil to get dry properly in order for them to breath and to absorb nutrients properly, the other guy is right if soil doesn't dry well it could stopp roots from absorbing certain nutes buddy.

Good luck, glad to help and looking forward to seeing later pics :weed::peace:
 
AllynIndoorFarms

AllynIndoorFarms

Member
apbx720 said:
Ill tell u exactly what it is... Its Mg deficiency from overwatering. Foliar w epsom salt 1-3tsp per gal and post back to me in a day or two about how the leaves are starting to perk back up
Click to expand...
Awesome tip, would I be correct in assuming that you would apply just after lights-off? Circulatory fans off?
 
apbx720

apbx720

Well-Known Member
AllynIndoorFarms said:
Awesome tip, would I be correct in assuming that you would apply just after lights-off? Circulatory fans off?
Click to expand...
Yes lights w lights off. I prefer to do mine bout 45 min before lights on. With ventilation ON. i like for whatever i spray to dry rather quickly. U can foliar any time during dark hrs and w fans off(if yr concerned w the spray only getting on select plants and not every plant, then turn fans on to help dry). Either way works. I just do it my way because i feel it mitigates mold and what not. Dnt like the idea of a plant soaking wet all night.
 
apbx720

apbx720

Well-Known Member
One more thing, u dnt wanna dump a bunch of water all at once when watering. The idea behind watering is - when u water u want to get all the dirt wet, and no dry spots. So the way to do that is to water slowly at first all over the top soil. Then continue watering until water start dripping out the bottom. U can then either keep watering til u get abt 10-20% run off, or u can stop watering, wait an hr, and water again til u get 10-20% runoff. This helps ensure water is getting adequately distribution among all the soil. If u just dump all the water on at once, what can happen is the water can find one path thru the soil without wetting all the soil. Causing dry spots which is not good for roots. Hope this helps. :peace:
 
apbx720

apbx720

Well-Known Member
Try the epsom salt my friend i promise u will be amazed at how they will perk up within a day or 2. And if im wrong, it still wnt hurt anything. And DNT water again til pots dry out. Overwatering is#1 killer of plants. Even a healthy plant will droop after watering it. This tells u something, that the roots are lacking oxygen. I dnt even like to water lol i love the way my plants look as the soil is drying. Once they wilt, then its time to water. Then the next time water right before they start to wilt form dryness.
 
M

mikey123

Member
Is the epsom salt just for the perkiness? I'm really only concerned with the color of the larger plant. I don't have a mister and was wondering if I could wipe a few leaves with a damp cloth and then 3 days later those leaves should either be standing out or not.

It looked noticeably better to me 6 hours after the first 2 hour rest. As soon as I get some good sun I'll get another picture for a comparison.
 
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