What's This Hullabaloo Over Islam and Muslims?

RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
clekstro said:
it seems that the word truth is really being skewed here... there was nothing more than speculation and generalizations, even in the statistics. i will certainly belittle the praise that an op-ed gets when it is written without one single fact devoid of half a sentence of qualifiers to back it up and give it a misleading credence. yeah, the whiny liberals are back, wanting america to lose and the evildoers to win because they are such big pussies... blah blah blah. you guys live in some sort of historical void, thinking that US intervention in the middle east for the last 50 years has had no effect in recruiting extremists, like we have no responsibility in what has happened; you live in a bubble that excludes all investigation into the past and grants secret insight into the future. no wonder i think it is stupid... don't acknowledge blowback and foreign policy, attack the religion that had no intentions (and still has no intention on the whole) of destroying the US until we had played puppetmaster in their region for half a century. i would be pissed too...
this is not an excuse for terrorism, but it makes the people who commit acts of it understandable. but i understand, that would break the membrane you people seem unable to penetrate. besides, the denial of history comes with all those cool powers!!!!
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What in the World makes you think you know the first thing about Muslim hatred of the West?

See, people like you are the cause of most of our problems today. You know absolutely nothing about an issue. You pull some theory out of your ass just because it sounds to you like it makes sense. You have unreasonable confidence in your own opinions and you adhere to them stubbornly and foolishly.

Look, this is all real simple. Many EXPERTS on the subject have said things similar to what is said in the OP. They know what they are talking about. You on the other hand don't know shit. You and those like you would be doing your self and all of us a big favor if you would stop thinking your ignorant opinions are worth a hill of beans. Try listening to people who know what they are talking about and shutting the **** up for once.
 
Babs34

Babs34

Well-Known Member
ViRedd said:
All those who believe that we are at war with Iraq, raise your hands. :mrgreen:

Vi
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We went to Iraq to get to Iran. "Weapons of mass destruction" were nothing more than a smokescreen. (although I'm certain they did in fact exist.)

Speaking of Iran---thank God for Obama. He's really playing hardball with them. :rolleyes:
 
Leothwyn

Leothwyn

Well-Known Member
On one side there is the opinion that extremist islam's hatred of us is fueled by U.S./westen policies.
On the other side, there is the opinion that they would hate the west without those policies (because our sinful ways are spreading all over the world via various media and they feel threatened; and in fact, because they see any non muslims as enemies to some degree).

Personally, I don't think that these ideas are at all mutually exclusive. I think those wingnuts would hate us no matter what AND our meddling has pissed them off even more.

Like clekstro, I'm not saying that our policies justify their bullshit, but it seems ridiculous to totally deny that our policies have driven them further in their fanatical ways.
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
So why did the Muslims just kill 121 of THEIR OWN people in Iraq? What is the logical answer?

Is it:

A) A retaliation for US foreign policy.
B) A struggle against westernization of Muslim culture.

Since they did not kill Americans but instead their own people and infrastructure, A makes no sense and B makes total sense. The radicals don't like Western influence because it threatens their belief system. If it was US policy that was enraging them, the only logical response would be to strike at our forces and our interests, not their own. Attacking their own people and infrastructure does make sense on the other hand, if those people and infrastructure are seen as promoting western ways.

It is really quite obvious to anyone willing to be open minded.
 
Leothwyn

Leothwyn

Well-Known Member
Your point would make perfect sense Rick, if there was some law of the universe that stated that crazy muslims can ONLY be enraged by ONE thing. I'm pretty sure they're capable of being pissed about multiple things. I'm sure even you can see that your post proves nothing (beyond them being a fucked up bunch of fanatics).
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Leothwyn said:
Your point would make perfect sense Rick, if there was some law of the universe that stated that crazy muslims can ONLY be enraged by ONE thing. I'm pretty sure they're capable of being pissed about multiple things. I'm sure even you can see that your post proves nothing (beyond them being a fucked up bunch of fanatics).
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But you are missing the point.

The claim I am refuting is based on the presumption that the radicals have a logical reason to hate us - our foreign policy. Those making this claim lay it out very clearly.

"If they are pissed there must be a (logical) reason and it must be something we have done."

If this were true, this might prompt them to attack us. But, at no time in history has one nation attacked their own people as a means of retaliating against another nation as doing so would be illogical.

Therefore, the claim that the radicals are logically responding to things we have done to them is demonstrably false.

On the other hand, the claim that the radicals hate us because they fear our Western culture holds true. This is perfectly demonstrated when they kill their own people for acting in a Westernized manner.

Although there were a number of attacks on US troops, most of the killing in Iraq was directed at Iraqis cooperating with the new Government. This is only something you see in a clash of cultures, not in a clash of Nations.
 
Leothwyn

Leothwyn

Well-Known Member
OK, I see your point. I'd never claim that their only reason for hostility is western policy in the mid-east... just that it has made them hate us more. Still, that does not in any way justify what they do.
 
Wavels

Wavels

Well-Known Member
I concur wholeheartedly with Mr. White

There is a hard core group of Jihadists bent on the destruction of Western culture. They are inextricably devoted to their murderous cause. They are impervious to reason.
IMO our self avowed enemies have to be destroyed.
Vacillation on this point simply emboldens these 12th century barbarians.
It really is quite simple...us or them.
 
Gymshoes

Gymshoes

Active Member
Dankdude said:
Assuming that all Muslims think like that... Which they don't.... But it just goes to prove thjat your so full of shit that your eyes are brown.
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:lol: Nowhere did i say "all muslims think like that." There are regular muslims and there are radical muslims. It's the radical 20% of muslims who are behind 90% of the world's terrorism. Period. And the regular muslims are just as bad because they are and remain largely silent about the acts comitted by their radical brothers; indeed, islam demands helping another muslim no matter what evil things he has done. Where i come from that's called facilitating, or giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Great point above.

Notice Muslims around the World remain curiously silent when acts of terror occur. And when we bombed Yugoslavia to defend Muslims (which was a war crime IMO) we received not a word of thanks.

While on the subject, Muslims really do nothing to help other Muslims save for use them as cannon fodder. Muslims around the world provide millions for weapons for Palestinians and to families of suicide bombers but give nothing in the way of humanitarian aid. A lot of people don't know this but after the 1967 Arab Israeli war a Muslim decree was issued to all Arab Nations not to allow the Palestinians to immigrate into surrounding Arab Countries. The reason for this was that they be used as pawns in an ongoing struggle to purge the Jews from Israel. They turned the Palestinians (their own people) into cannon fodder.
 
Gymshoes

Gymshoes

Active Member
RickWhite said:
Notice Muslims around the World remain curiously silent when acts of terror occur.
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LOL, they wanna keep their heads! And besides that, Allah has them believe that it is a blasphemy to speak against their brothers in the faith.

And when we bombed Yugoslavia to defend Muslims (which was a war crime IMO) we received not a word of thanks.
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Not only that, consider the enormous economic support many of those nations (Egypt, for example) recieve from us.

While on the subject, Muslims really do nothing to help other Muslims save for use them as cannon fodder.
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That can be attributed to their fatalism; they have ALWAYS been the slaves of kings and dictators; add to that their blind slavish obedience to Islam.

Muslims around the world provide millions for weapons for Palestinians and to families of suicide bombers but give nothing in the way of humanitarian aid.
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Their so-called Holy book tells them to make war against un-believers, polytheists, and the Jews. The Arab Muslim states have made sure that the Palestinians would be pawns in their war against Israel and the Jews.



A lot of people don't know this but after the 1967 Arab Israeli war a Muslim decree was issued to all Arab Nations not to allow the Palestinians to immigrate into surrounding Arab Countries. The reason for this was that they be used as pawns in an ongoing struggle to purge the Jews from Israel. They turned the Palestinians (their own people) into cannon fodder.
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I knew about that.

And the Jews who fled from the Arab states in 1947/48 had all their properties and possessions confiscated. We don't hear the Israelis raising hell about that, do we?
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Gymshoes said:
And the Jews who fled from the Arab states in 1947/48 had all their properties and possessions confiscated. We don't hear the Israelis raising hell about that, do we?
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Another interesting fact that few people know is that the number of Jews forced out of Arab lands (where they previously resided as second class citizens with no rights) was approximately the same as the number of Palestinians that left Israel.

Why don't we hear Liberals howling about the plight of these Jews? Maybe it is because Liberals only support people who scare them.
 
laughingduck

laughingduck

Well-Known Member
All i have to add is if the 90% percent of the muslims that do not support terrorism better get a handle on those that do then we will have no choice but to kill them all and let god sort them out.
 
abe23

abe23

Active Member
RickWhite said:
Great point above.

Notice Muslims around the World remain curiously silent when acts of terror occur. And when we bombed Yugoslavia to defend Muslims (which was a war crime IMO) we received not a word of thanks.

While on the subject, Muslims really do nothing to help other Muslims save for use them as cannon fodder. Muslims around the world provide millions for weapons for Palestinians and to families of suicide bombers but give nothing in the way of humanitarian aid. A lot of people don't know this but after the 1967 Arab Israeli war a Muslim decree was issued to all Arab Nations not to allow the Palestinians to immigrate into surrounding Arab Countries. The reason for this was that they be used as pawns in an ongoing struggle to purge the Jews from Israel. They turned the Palestinians (their own people) into cannon fodder.
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Actually, I do notice many muslims around the world NOT remaining silent when acts of terror occur. Maybe you aren't paying very good attention. Also, arab and muslim is not the same thing. I always find it interesting that you guys choose to ignore that virtually all your "muslim" terrorists are arabs, not senegalese or indian.

You're right about the second part, though. The palestinians have basically been used as a political lightning rod by just about every nearby arab country. There wouldn't be a 'palestinian problem' today if they had all gotten citizenship in jordan, egypt, syria and lebanon. Borders shifted in germany after ww2, but you don't hear about a "german refugee problem" 65 years later.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Most other religious developments around the world, such as the spread of Christianity in the Southern Hemisphere, have benign or nonviolent consequences.
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lmfao, someone needs to look a little more closely, because I haven't read something so profoundly retarded in quite a while.

On one side there is the opinion that extremist islam's hatred of us is fueled by U.S./westen policies.
On the other side, there is the opinion that they would hate the west without those policies (because our sinful ways are spreading all over the world via various media and they feel threatened; and in fact, because they see any non muslims as enemies to some degree).

Personally, I don't think that these ideas are at all mutually exclusive. I think those wingnuts would hate us no matter what AND our meddling has pissed them off even more.

Like clekstro, I'm not saying that our policies justify their bullshit, but it seems ridiculous to totally deny that our policies have driven them further in their fanatical ways.
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IMO, this post pretty much nailed it.
 
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