What would prove GOD does/doesn't exists?

Az-uar Iam said:

Haven't finished reading your post, but had to respond to your point. I'm not sayin it start from a conscious act, but a coincidence that started a ripple effect that eventually created the Big Bang. Now back to finishing your post

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"God" is such a wide ranging concept these days...But the idea of God insofar as humanity is concerned, didn't used to be a wide ranging concept. It was a very specific concept. I guess you could say that mankind used to know if God existed or not. If you lived in ancient Egypt or ancient Rome, etc. then he DID exist. And people lived their entire lives never questioning it. He existed as a man-like creature who lived in Heaven (or Paradise, etc.). He was emotional. He got angry. He administered punishment...etc. He was much more like us back in the day. Nowadays, he is a coincidence or a vibrating energy string or an atomic particle, etc.

God changes according to the time in which we live. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that God has always been shaped by man and not visa-versa.

Dalek Supreme said:

Ok. Let's say Ghosts are real for arguments sake.

How do you get God out of it?

It's like saying that since Lions are real, and robots are real. It means Voltron is real.

Sounds like false equivalency to me.

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What not ghosts bro im talking about demons. Ghosts dont choke you in your sleep and dig there claws into your chest when your praying for god to help you. Or lift a bed up with you on it and drop it because you were sitting there saying "whatever you are om not scared of you, fuck you."

But here is some knowledge
The bible is written by something much more intelligent than us. In books 1-5 (the Torah) there was discovered secret code that spells out the name yeshua (jesus) on every page. But not only jesus' name but all kinds of prophecy. For example In Isaiah 53 which is the verse that told of jesus' coming 700 years before his birth. Well in that just one verse they found over 20 words. Some of those words are: yeshua (many times) mary (3 times) Nazareth, Bethlehem, all 12 disciples names, Cesar, lamb, Pharisees, Pontius, and many many more!!!
http://www.bibleisaiah.com/isaiah53_bible_codes.htm the odds of just this ONE verse just happening to have all these words is 1 in 7.4 BILLION
The only part of the bible that is full on secret messeges the first 5 books.
The book is called yeshua code if anyone is interested. And they show you the Hebrew with the code highlighted in equidistant numberation. And give you the hebrew alphabet so you can decode it yourself if you wish.

The book is called yeshua code if anyone is up for a really mind blowing read. Even if you don't believe in god. Im sure ya believe in aliens!

Here is just a little taste

When Jesus comes back, do you think he'd be proud of what Christianity has become?

I'm not disagreeing with your religious knowledge, but I believe there's a so called GOD code which allows us to see through the lies that men have used to mislead the masses.

I see nothing wrong with what you say, but I also see no reason why there would only be one way.

BionicΩChronic said:

What not ghosts bro im talking about demons. Ghosts dont choke you in your sleep and dig there claws into your chest when your praying for god to help you. Or lift a bed up with you on it and drop it because you were sitting there saying "whatever you are om not scared of you, fuck you."

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This can be explained by Hypnagogic hallucinations:

"Hallucinations during sleep are a phenomenon that can target any sensory perception, be it visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory or other. Hallucinations are often confused with both illusions and dreams. Hallucinations occur in the state between waking and sleeping (the person is considered to be technically asleep during these hallucinations though), as opposed to dreams or lucid dreams, which occur while asleep. Illusions occur while awake, and are classified as a sensory misrepresentation of an external stimulus, while hallucinations occur in the absence of any external stimuli. "

https://www.sleepassociation.org/patients-general-public/hallucinations-during-sleep/

BionicΩChronic said:

But here is some knowledge
The bible is written by something much more intelligent than us. In books 1-5 (the Torah) there was discovered secret code that spells out the name yeshua (jesus) on every page. But not only jesus' name but all kinds of prophecy. For example In Isaiah 53 which is the verse that told of jesus' coming 700 years before his birth. Well in that just one verse they found over 20 words. Some of those words are: yeshua (many times) mary (3 times) Nazareth, Bethlehem, all 12 disciples names, Cesar, lamb, Pharisees, Pontius, and many many more!!!
http://www.bibleisaiah.com/isaiah53_bible_codes.htm the odds of just this ONE verse just happening to have all these words is 1 in 7.4 BILLION
The only part of the bible that is full on secret messeges the first 5 books.
The book is called yeshua code if anyone is interested. And they show you the Hebrew with the code highlighted in equidistant numberation. And give you the hebrew alphabet so you can decode it yourself if you wish.

The book is called yeshua code if anyone is up for a really mind blowing read. Even if you don't believe in god. Im sure ya believe in aliens!

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That's freaken amazing. In under 5 minutes I found my own Bible code...Just spell out the bold black letters.

Isaiah 19:6-8 Revised Standard Version (RSV)

"6 and its canals will become foul,
and the branches of Egypt’s Nile will diminish and dry up,
reeds and rushes will rot away.
7 There will be bare places by the Nile,
on the brink of the Nile,
and all that is sown by the Nile will dry up,
be driven away, and be no more.
8 The fishermen will mourn and lament,
all who cast hook in the Nile;
and they will languish
who spread nets upon the water."

God exists because it's a word. The God of humanity and all things is a description with meaning. To prove God exists you would have to maybe write the word down, look at it, think about it. And then ask yourself "what does this word mean?" then you'll be like "oh." and life goes on. You'll still have to wake up, brush your teeth, go to work on something, sleep. You dont have to join a church just because there is this word. You might join a church to keep yourself from making bad decisions. but morallity is something else.

pinner420 said:

Like a needle in a hay stack my favorite point is... what is the accuracy of carbon dating? So the half life of carbon alone takes these notions of billions of years and make me chuckle. So it goes...

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Lol, carbon dating is accurate and it's not how we measure the age of the universe dude. So even if you wanted to say carbon dating is flawed and we couldn't trust the data of any rock from earth, or say in our solar system..

We would still have the cosmic background radiation, the leftover sound of the universe coming into existence, 13.8 billion years ago.. Also our star and solar system are second generation or later, because the heavy elements used here in the formation of the planets were created billions of years ago in a super nova explosion.

Please don't try and misrepresent science, when you don't understand it..

iHearAll said:

God exists because it's a word. The God of humanity and all things is a description with meaning. To prove God exists you would have to maybe write the word down, look at it, think about it. And then ask yourself "what does this word mean?" then you'll be like "oh." and life goes on. You'll still have to wake up, brush your teeth, go to work on something, sleep. You dont have to join a church just because there is this word. You might join a church to keep yourself from making bad decisions. but morallity is something else.

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This is similar to what I brought up a few times earlier in the discussion..

So what if god does exist? It isn't the classical or typical definition of God, as proposed by various religions, because most of the stories contradict themselves and have no scientific data to corroborate any such claims. So it can't be any of those, and then what does that leave? A being that has no meaningful impact on your life, should they in the highly unlikely instance, actually exist.

If god is super natural, then by definition cannot be proven. Likewise the non existence of God could also not be proven. The more important thing is what you take away from it.

I personally hope for a future where humanity has cast away the oppression of religion. It tells you to obey and to trust things without proof (belief). It allows people to twist it's teachings to propagate hate and mistrust, and to preform absolutely horrendous things in the name of God.

None of the good that comes from religion, I think is actually from religion. I think it's from our humanity, our collective sense of community and kinship. And we should learn to cultivate that way of thinking, free from the confines of religion.

LostInEthereal said:

This is similar to what I brought up a few times earlier in the discussion..

So what if god does exist? It isn't the classical or typical definition of God, as proposed by various religions, because most of the stories contradict themselves and have no scientific data to corroborate any such claims. So it can't be any of those, and then what does that leave? A being that has no meaningful impact on your life, should they in the highly unlikely instance, actually exist.

If god is super natural, then by definition cannot be proven. Likewise the non existence of God could also not be proven. The more important thing is what you take away from it.

I personally hope for a future where humanity has cast away the oppression of religion. It tells you to obey and to trust things without proof (belief). It allows people to twist it's teachings to propagate hate and mistrust, and to preform absolutely horrendous things in the name of God.

None of the good that comes from religion, I think is actually from religion. I think it's from our humanity, our collective sense of community and kinship. And we should learn to cultivate that way of thinking, free from the confines of religion.

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God is equally a protector as a destroyer. because in life, the God is the reason for everything, even knowledge. Some people KNOW for a fact that God isnt real because of God. And theyre right God isnt REAL, we are real. God is a real idea which doesnt scientifically amount to much other than a synapse pattern, artistic interpretation, word, those kinds of things.

If i wrote a book with character that were humans, animals, aliens, demons, and angels, then i could add God as a character. John wakes up, goes to the bathroom and has some morning sex with his wife of 10 years. ok relateable. And God walks by and says "Hey John great looking dick. Really get that sucker in there" so John does. His wife Elaine gets pregnant and has a baby boy. God sees this and decides he doesn't like it so he undoes the morning sex for John and instead he kills Elaine. Hes now happy with this. John is sad because God told him to be.

God can do whatever the fuck he wants.

not relateable.... but it's true.... the story itself really happened somewhere in this endless universe because silly things like murphys law

LostInEthereal said:

Lol, carbon dating is accurate and it's not how we measure the age of the universe dude. So even if you wanted to say carbon dating is flawed and we couldn't trust the data of any rock from earth, or say in our solar system..

We would still have the cosmic background radiation, the leftover sound of the universe coming into existence, 13.8 billion years ago.. Also our star and solar system are second generation or later, because the heavy elements used here in the formation of the planets were created billions of years ago in a super nova explosion.

Please don't try and misrepresent science, when you don't understand it..

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Math isn't a strength of yours. It could be infinite; please refrain from arbitrary billions with a fucking decimal.

pinner420 said:

Math isn't a strength of yours. It could be infinite; please refrain from arbitrary billions with a fucking decimal.

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The multiverse, yes could be infinite. Our universe is not, however.

And that arbitrary decimal refers to millions, not billions. Not who's not so great at math? But yeah, it's not my strong suit

Convictions and beliefs are one thing; time is another so keep it straight. So far I'm not impressed with your conclusion; how did you derive this number? Look at me I fell into a troll trap. Sorry ... carry on.!

If for some of you God doesn't exist then who create the world for example who made the first egg to get birds and who made the seeds to have fruits trees?

So let me ask you, how old do you believe the universe is? You made it seem like the idea of billions of years is a laugh?

Please don't tell me you're a creationist or similar and believe the earth is but a few thousand years old?

augusto1 said:

If for some of you God doesn't exist then who create the world for example who made the first egg to get birds and who made the seeds to have fruits trees?

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Science is pretty honest about they cannot explain anything prior to the big bang, that our understanding of the laws of the universe breakdown at that scale. So as far as science is concerned, it doesn't matter what happened before the big bang. There are several hypothesis as to how our universe came into existence, but I wont go into those here.

No entity created the first egg or first seed, that was an extremely long process of incremental successful changes of several generations, and IIRC the mechanism of how the egg came into existence isn't well understood. I think there is a decent understanding of the seed but I'm not an evolutionary biologist, so perhaps read up on some of their works.

The main point is, you need not fill in the gaps within our understanding of the world and universe with God. Just because we don't know, or can't yet explain, doesn't mean that's where God is hiding out.

LostInEthereal said:

So let me ask you, how old do you believe the universe is? You made it seem like the idea of billions of years is a laugh?

Please don't tell me you're a creationist or similar and believe the earth is but a few thousand years old?

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Hmm I can say I'm not of the primordial soup! I'll refrain from saying billions or trillions. You see you can be pragmatic without using large numbers to attempt a spiritual conversation as the thread intended.. I've never made a claim to know the age of any uni/multiverse. You claim carbon dating to be accurate which disqualified any potential intelligent thing that could be manifested in our chat. I'll leave it at that. Regards..

pinner420 said:

Hmm I can say I'm not of the primordial soup! I'll refrain from saying billions or trillions. You see you can be pragmatic without using large numbers to attempt a spiritual conversation as the thread intended.. I've never made a claim to know the age of any uni/multiverse. You claim carbon dating to be accurate which disqualified any potential intelligent thing that could be manifested in our chat. I'll leave it at that. Regards..

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I don't like to go back and forth either, especially with unwavering morons like yourself. So yeah, peace out. Enjoy your ignorance buddy, must be quite blissful..

EDIT: I apologize in advance, I hate resorting to name calling and other petty shit like that. But I have no desire to bicker back and forth is all. Carbon dating has flaws, but to rule it out completely is just ignorant.

There's google...
There are various other radiometric dating methods used today to give ages of millions or billions of years for rocks. These techniques, unlike carbon dating, mostly use the relative concentrations of parent and daughter products in radioactive decay chains. For example, potassium-40 decays to argon-40; uranium-238 decays to lead-206 via other elements like radium; uranium-235 decays to lead-207; rubidium-87 decays to strontium-87; etc. These techniques are applied to igneous rocks, and are normally seen as giving the time since solidification. The isotope concentrations can be measured very accurately, but isotope concentrations are not dates. To derive ages from such measurements, unprovable assumptions have to be made such as: The starting conditions are known (for example, that there was no daughter isotope present at the start, or that we know how much was there). Decay rates have always been constant. Systems were closed or isolated so that no parent or daughter isotopes were lost or added. There are patterns in the isotope data. There is plenty of evidence that the radioisotope dating systems are not the infallible techniques many think, and that they are not measuring millions of years. However, there are still patterns to be explained. For example, deeper rocks often tend to give older “ages

That's why I said I recognized there are flaws, but I still believe that to completely disregard the findings (or better suggestions) as to the age to be a little irresponsible.

Again I don't want to go back and forth. As I've stated one cannot prove or disprove god as that is super natural and based on our definitions is beyond the explanation of science. I don't have any qualms with that.

But to suggest that the universe being billions of years old is laughable in favor or some type of creation story (especially literal) is deeply unsettling to me. We have data that suggests the earth and universe are much older, and came into existence through a yet explained but congruent to observation, a reasonable explanation of the origin of the universe?

See, hopefully we can move past vitriol and negative comments and progress to a meaningful discussion.

Sorry I need to wake in 5 hours for work so I'm zoning on xanax and a few beers and smoking bowls, and I don't think I can keep up much longer.