What would Happen if i Cut off most/All my Plant's Leaves?

Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
No "misnomer". Cannabis is an annual, period. It's a foliage plant not a woody tree or shrub. It doesn't store carbos for the spring push in its roots, drop its leaves and then go dormant thru a winter cycle.

If you lose leaves it's most likely because you can't grow well and/or are just plain stupid doing the lollipop thing and such. If you cut branches and as a master gardener know what you're doing, then you know that cannabis will replace foliage lost with more foliage such as what happens when you top.
 
Propagate

Propagate

Active Member
Uncle Ben said:
No "misnomer". Cannabis is an annual, period. It's a foliage plant not a woody tree or shrub. It doesn't store carbos for the spring push in its roots, drop its leaves and then go dormant thru a winter cycle.

If you lose leaves it's most likely because you can't grow well and/or are just plain stupid doing the lollipop thing and such. If you cut branches and as a master gardener know what you're doing, then you know that cannabis will replace foliage lost with more foliage such as what happens when you top.
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Would you agree the difference in a perennial and annual is location?
 
cues

cues

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
No "misnomer". Cannabis is an annual, period. It's a foliage plant not a woody tree or shrub. It doesn't store carbos for the spring push in its roots, drop its leaves and then go dormant thru a winter cycle.

If you lose leaves it's most likely because you can't grow well and/or are just plain stupid doing the lollipop thing and such. If you cut branches and as a master gardener know what you're doing, then you know that cannabis will replace foliage lost with more foliage such as what happens when you top.
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Not a woody tree or shrub? I've grown plants outdoors where the stems were like baseball bats!
It's certainly not a foliage plant (a plant grown for it's decorative leaves). Is a herbaceous plant a foliage plant? Another blurred line.

My point is that botanists try to classify things and 'put them in boxes' and it simply doesn't work that way any more as it never did with trees and shrubs. They could never find a botanical difference so just 'decided' which were which.

It started with world travel and plants being moved between continents and temperate zones. Now, with artificial lighting, we can induce plants to act as we wish. My Cayenne peppers are now in a state of almost perpetual flower and fruit.

Recent advances in back-tracing DNA have resulted in many plants being re-classified and found to belong to completely different species as previously thought.

PS.

I wouldn't dare call myself a master gardener until I regularly hit the GPW. I'm not there yet.
 
hoagtech

hoagtech

Well-Known Member
Ill tell you what'll happen. Youll stir the pot around here. my 2c: clearing under canopy helps ventilate your crops and is widely precticed in both the grape and tomatoe industry. Also if your in an indoor setting and want to maximise your light. it works great to rip off some light blockers. Even more so in veg or when you over fertilized, ripping branches or topping creates a response and revitilised metabolism. Those are my 2 cents and i practice them because they work for me. but seriously your startin some shit if you've seen this argument elswhere. And I dont like that..

And just for the hell of it I'l' argue with myself. Ripping branches off limits your ability to photosynthesize. Any and all plant matter creates glucol which is the the most important aspect in carbon production. Less leaves = less new growth. I agree with my first statement, but I do understand where the other side is coming from. I do think its ironic that people say not to pick leaves or branches and THEN CONDONE TOPPING? the full monty branch picking method that creates an amazing response.. Im getting used to the hypocrisy.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
cues said:
Not a woody tree or shrub? I've grown plants outdoors where the stems were like baseball bats!
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The fact that it will increase its lignin content, become a little woody, does NOT make it a perennial. How thick was the bark on that "tree" lol?

It's certainly not a foliage plant (a plant grown for it's decorative leaves). Is a herbaceous plant a foliage plant? Another blurred line.
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It's not blurred to me. It's foliage plant that flowers. The majority of foliage plants flower.

My point is that botanists try to classify things and 'put them in boxes' and it simply doesn't work that way any more as it never did with trees and shrubs. They could never find a botanical difference so just 'decided' which were which.
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Not true. I think the bee in your bonnet is you have a problem with authority.

"All "annual" plants are "herbaceous," but not all herbaceous plants are annuals. An "annual" is a plant that dies altogether at the end of the growing season, both above the ground and below it. "Perennials," by contrast, survive the winter, even if their above-ground growth dies back."

Perennials are woody, cannabis is not per se.


It started with world travel and plants being moved between continents and temperate zones. Now, with artificial lighting, we can induce plants to act as we wish. My Cayenne peppers are now in a state of almost perpetual flower and fruit.
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Sorry, peppers are annuals. Just because you can manipulate and baby their cycle doesn't make them a true perennial. You've cheated mother nature is what you've done.

I wouldn't dare call myself a master gardener until I regularly hit the GPW. I'm not there yet.
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I am a Master Gardener, certified by the State of Texas FWIW. Really doesn't mean squat. I'm more of a Master Gardener based on 40+ years of growing every kind of plant material you can think of, which includes a large commercial ag op as we speak.

Uncle Ben
 
cues

cues

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
The fact that it will increase its lignin content, become a little woody, does NOT make it a perennial. How thick was the bark on that "tree" lol?

So, now we are talking about 'woody plants' based on Lignin content? While it is probably only about a quarter of most 'trees', it's still a constituant of Cannabis plants and in far higher concentrations than many 'annual' plants.


It's not blurred to me. It's foliage plant that flowers. The majority of foliage plants flower.

Sorry, but the definition of a foliage plant is a plant grown primarily for it's leaves. You are wrong.

Not true. I think the bee in your bonnet is you have a problem with authority.

Umm, not exactly. In my trade I am the authority.

"All "annual" plants are "herbaceous," but not all herbaceous plants are annuals. An "annual" is a plant that dies altogether at the end of the growing season, both above the ground and below it. "Perennials," by contrast, survive the winter, even if their above-ground growth dies back."

Agreed, in general, if you like to think 'inside the box'

Perennials are woody, cannabis is not per se.

Disagree, as above.

Sorry, peppers are annuals. Just because you can manipulate and baby their cycle doesn't make them a true perennial. You've cheated mother nature is what you've done.

Disagree. The words 'true perennial' is what I am trying to make a point about.

I am a Master Gardener, certified by the State of Texas FWIW. Really doesn't mean squat. I'm more of a Master Gardener based on 40+ years of growing every kind of plant material you can think of, which includes a large commercial ag op as we speak.

No kidding. I wish I could advertise who I really was on here as it would shock a few people. Put it this way, my mother came back from a holiday in America and was shocked at how well I was known there. No shit. To tell you the truth, so was I. The most amazing bit was when a hotel staff member heard her surname and asked if she was related to me! She came back on cloud nine! My son is world famous! lol.
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HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
I am a Master Gardener, certified by the State of Texas FWIW. Really doesn't mean squat.
Uncle Ben
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<<<Ring, ring, ring>>>
MG: TCMG
caller: blah blah blah blah, sticky stuff on my trees
MG: Wooly Aphids, just deal with it. <Hang up>

...repeat...

Picked the wrong time to put volunteer hours in at the phone desk.
 
O

Omnispo

Member
I am finding healthy tomato plants releaf vigorously after defoliation, after a recovery period. If you want to stunt your lady's growth, defoliation is an option...for ex if they need to stay under the light.

i wonder if there is an appreciable amount of photosynthesis proceeding in the green part of the buds, aka the bracts/calyxes? Any experts know the answer to that?
 
O

Omnispo

Member
I repeat. Is there photosynthesis performed by components of the buds? Maybe a horticulturalist can answer my query.

Does photosynthesis happen in swollen green calyxes or bracts?
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Omnispo said:
I repeat. Is there photosynthesis performed by components of the buds? Maybe a horticulturalist can answer my query.

Does photosynthesis happen in swollen green calyxes or bracts?
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Yes. If it has chlorophyll, it will conduct photosynthesis. It's like a tier regarding production of simple/complex carbos with the large fan leaves being the most productive, bud fan leaves next, and the calyxes being least.
 
O

Omnispo

Member
Interesting. Always good to hear from an experienced expert.

Is there a direct connection between photosynthesis and terpene/CB biosysnthesis?

Do calyxes photosynthesize carbs and ATP for the biosynthesis of cannabinoids (CB) in the trichromes?

After all, we are mostly seeking cannabinoids, trichromes, and buds. The rest is trim.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Omnispo said:
Interesting. Always good to hear from an experienced expert.

Is there a direct connection between photosynthesis and terpene/CB biosysnthesis?

Do calyxes photosynthesize carbs and ATP for the biosynthesis of cannabinoids (CB) in the trichromes?

After all, we are mostly seeking cannabinoids, trichromes, and buds. The rest is trim.
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That "trim" is what drives "cannabinoids, trichromes, and buds." You're focusing on the end product and not on how to get there which I explained previously. Not singling you out as comments like yours are common. Read R.C. Clarke's 'Marijuana Botany'.

Don't drive using your rear view mirror.

UB
 
O

Omnispo

Member
Uncle Zen, i mean Uncle Benjammin, ;) ... You are damn right about me focusing on the end product. My firstime stupidity retarded my ladies growth. Ah well, experimentation is only worthless if you don't learn your lessons.

My first harem of 5 cherokee heirloom tomato ladies are looking fine now in late flower, but my complete and utterly Cannaba-tarded defoliation massively prolonged the time required for complete flowering, as the flowers were forced to releaf before continuing flowering. They are in their twelvth!!! week of flower with three weeks more required. That is a warning to all noobs to leave the leaves alone, unless you have good reason for taking one or two off the plant's body. The varieties of tomatoes i am nurturing currently, are medicine man, two solid freebies - auto dinafem white widow, and one lucky yet-unhermed OG Skywalker Kush bag seed- by far the best looking of the bunch with purpling stems even without low night temperatures. I lucked out with sexing the regular strains, using much banana ethyelene in the seedling stage with cool temps to produce 4 of 4 females. Definitely not a large enough sample size to draw conclusions about banana effectiveness, but intriguing nonetheless! Is sex determined genetically, epigenetically, and/or environmentally, at different points in the plants' lifecycle?

There are many heirloom tomato forums on the intertubes but RiU keeps me coming back... And no its not the clueless noobs as myself, its the old head experts with decades of experience, quite humbling if one has an open mind. Sure Wish i had joined in 2008 when i first lurked!

Thanks to the following inspirational grow airs:

From Uncle Zen I learned to continue N through flower, to forget lollipopping or removing bud sites, listen to my elders and take my verbal medicine, and to skip defoliation except for rare cases. You cannot reattach a leaf, once plucked, it fades to black in the compost pile. Entropy is a bitch to skip so i focus on syntropy, negentropy, and extropy. Back to reading Botnical txtbooks for me!!

From subcool I learned about the intricacies of SuberSoil, an all organic mix with massive potential. Enjoy your new home in Cali!

From Nugbuckets I learned mainlining isn't a shortcut to Overdosing. Gotta love that symmetric Hub! Powers of two up to 16/32/64?

From Budologist I learned about scientific liquid and gas chromotographic CB measurement techniques. i wonder if they can measure other chems like limonene, various terpenes, and other aromatic molecules responsible for tastes? Soon I am going to call your lab guys and ask about the meaning of the THc percentages in terms of dry weight of the herbal meds.

I hope the future brings me into real life friendships with the creme de la of creme of RIU.

what is the difference between foxtailing, crowning, and dreading? Are any of these bad at the end of flower, as last bursts of pistils spring forth? I cannot see the harm in my queens crowning themselves.

also, can a dehumidifier hurt ladies in late flower? rH is kept around 35-42...

One last Closing thought and i mustoprocrastinating: Someone more expert than I, should compile an evolving RIU meta-synopsis of growing info, or at least a viral pdf of the prettiest colas/trees/setups.

 
O

Omnispo

Member
It seems most inexperienced noobs, like myself,
Start their super tomato plants from subpar random runtling genetics, grown in spatially cramped and Light starved conditions, yet remain heat stressed and under-cooled,
over-fed with wallet-voiding hundredollar snake oils marketed in flashy bottles...
poisoned with polluted air and
burnt with nutrient salts,
Under Nitrogenated yet their Growth media hyperPKed causing Chlorotic/necrotic Leaf tips- worsened by tap water's contaminates as heavy metals, lead, arsenic, concentrated chloramines and fluoride,
pest-infected through grower's hands/feet vectors,
spider mites find these heavenly havens...
Yet the noob Omnicidally annihilates beneficial soil microbials,
Plants undervented with radioactive urban air,
root bound and under-potted,
CO2 starved,
Growth tips pruned, hyper-stressed and growth stunted,
Following Bought and paid for BS advice, Lollypopped and over-defoliated,
Basically treated as if it was not a living entity, but a dead green computer machine subservient to the demands of human hedonism.
These poor yet resilient organisms, now Overcome with Diseases- gardener induced,
These ladies are over-thought, yet under researched,
With meristems topped too late and trained improperly,
Lacking discretionary measures like odor control and running mouth syndrome, sinking ships
prematurely harvest impatiently without hesitation, just as the ladies were beginning to recover from the grower's abuses...
Controlled by greed,
Her Flowers are Disrespected,
speed-dried , dehydrated, and expertly anti-cured to seal in her buds the chlorophyllic Taste of hay, barely fit for a silage trough,
these barely living plant ladies are over-expectorated, hyper-complicated, under-planned, and mostly mis-understood.
Finally, all of these failings Result in what??
Most likely -- >toxic grass clippings!
At best Bottom barrel beasters if lady luck smiled upon that fool,
yet according to the noob "grower," these are the best homegrown purple cherokee heirloom tomatoes he has ever seen and smoked! Hurry up and spend a full day's wahes on an adeptly eyeballed eighth, while suckers swoon over anything besides mexican schwag.

Sux to be inexperienced...
Fortunately for my future harem's ladies, I am working hard on the planning problems by gaining greater understanding, thanks to RIU!
Are Eye You? Areyeau? I like phonetics. Bed time haha!

Random Question for rep+- Does vaping freshly picked tomato flowers work better than smoking quickdried buds?

p.s.s this post made me realize why the experts on here get a little cranky at times! So much stupid, so little time for cannaba-Cupid to cure it!!
 
O

Omnispo

Member
In response to the thread question, what would happen if i cut off all my leaves?

i did just that after reading keeftreez defoliation thread on ICMAG, on three ladies I experimented with total defoliation- dispersive and concentrated, a few weeks into flower and again at 4 weeks into flower. On two ladies I even removed even the bud leaves! I left only the buds remaining on those two ladies. The squat pheno of a dinafem white widow auto didn't seem to mind, almost loved it, producing monster fruits after a recovery period and releafing. A medicine man showed a similar recovery phase, followed by bud releafing, then started to pack on the bud bulk. The other taller pheno of dinafem auto w.w. showed severe stress from the first defoliation but recovered after I spared it the second defoliation.

My little experiment proved to myself the dangers of defoliation in radical form, even on perfectly healthy ladies. there are many negative effects from defoliation, such as stunted growth, MUCH longer flower times, plant stress, leafy buds, and possibly delayed trichrome development. I will never radically defoliate again, besides in rare cases.

A few neutral effects can be seen from even total defoliation..
It halts vertical growth, helpful as I am vertically limited in space. Thus bonzai aficianados use it.
It also allows free air movement, isolating buds similar to a scrog, and allows lower buds more light exposure.
It lets you easily inspect your ladies for pests, and it removes points of attack for pests like the spider borg.

Less is more, truly. I also regret lollipopping and bottom pruning before i radically defoliated.
From now on I leave it on unless the plant begs me to remove it. Eagle Scout's honor!! ;)
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Like many you've had to learn the hard way. Common (botanical) sense is really not that hard people.

The title of this thread pretty much speaks for itself when it comes to cannabis growers. I mean hell's bells, if you don't understand the function of a leaf, what in the hell are you doing trying to grow anything?

UB
 
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