What political issues are you unwilling to compromise on?

tangerinegreen555

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Colorado is proof that conservative minded voters -- which is practically everybody -- is a policy that is an uncomfortable issue and a loser when the whole universal healthcare enchilada is mandated all at once.

80 million people in this country have healthcare provided through private insurance companies. 60 million of them like the plan they are in. Sanders health care plan -- which has no price tag on it -- would force everybody into Medicare. 60 million pissed off voters is an insurmountable obstacle in this country.

Do you really think Congress can win back the House, much less the Senate when there are 60 million people opposed to the core policy you and other Cult of Sanders people would force down their throats.

Dude, you are a basket case when it comes to understanding the current situation. There is great support for sustaining if not improving the ACA. At this time your idea of univerasal healthcare and forcing it upon the people of this country is a gift to Republicans and would lead to an other two years of Republican control of the entire US government.

Are you OK with that?
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Forcing everybody into Medicare is a bad idea.

I have to sign up for Medicare next year. I'm not looking forward to it. I'm contractually forced to sign up for it. My current insurance seems better.

These people don't seem to understand that Medicare, like private insurance, DOES NOT OFFER 100% coverage.

You still need supplemental insurance that also DOES NOT OFFER 100% coverage.

This must be hard for some to understand. Nothing is going to be free. You'll be paying something in addition to the obvious tax increase.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
tangerinegreen555 said:
Forcing everybody into Medicare is a bad idea.

I have to sign up for Medicare next year. I'm not looking forward to it. I'm contractually forced to sign up for it. My current insurance seems better.

These people don't seem to understand that Medicare, like private insurance, DOES NOT OFFER 100% coverage.

You still need supplemental insurance that also DOES NOT OFFER 100% coverage.

This must be hard for some to understand. Nothing is going to be free. You'll be paying something in addition to the obvious tax increase.
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Agree. Although I will say that Medicare is a much better deal than what most elderly people would have without it. My mother is on Medicare and I must say the coverage has been pretty good care of her. Supplemental insurance is affordable to her and not going to break her finances. She's living on a modest pension and proceeds from the house she sold in 2004, so it's not as if she's rich or anything. Her savings are likely to last to the end of her life and Medicare is a big reason why that is possible. Without Medicare and Social Security she would have been impoverished years ago. Republicans are hell bent on ending those plans as we know them.

Universal health care coverage is the goal and the ACA was always considered a bridge to that end. Eve so. Universal health care coverage isn't going to be free either. What it will do is change the game from maximizing profits regardless of outcomes to one where we strive for ever better outcomes at costs that are on par with other nations.

The only way to reach that goal is if Republicans are defeated beginning this fall. What Sanders' bill would accomplish politically is the opposite of that.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
tangerinegreen555 said:
Forcing everybody into Medicare is a bad idea.

I have to sign up for Medicare next year. I'm not looking forward to it. I'm contractually forced to sign up for it. My current insurance seems better.

These people don't seem to understand that Medicare, like private insurance, DOES NOT OFFER 100% coverage.

You still need supplemental insurance that also DOES NOT OFFER 100% coverage.

This must be hard for some to understand. Nothing is going to be free. You'll be paying something in addition to the obvious tax increase.
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Nobody is forcing you out of coverage if that's what you want and you pay for it yourself. Private insurance would still exist, the only difference would be that 100% of Americans are covered whether they can pay for it or not. If you want to get a nose job and you buy it yourself, nobody would stop you. The idea that you would be stripped of your ability to pay for private coverage outside of universal coverage is a right wing talking point which holds no basis in reality.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
tangerinegreen555 said:
Forcing everybody into Medicare is a bad idea.

I have to sign up for Medicare next year. I'm not looking forward to it. I'm contractually forced to sign up for it. My current insurance seems better.

These people don't seem to understand that Medicare, like private insurance, DOES NOT OFFER 100% coverage.

You still need supplemental insurance that also DOES NOT OFFER 100% coverage.

This must be hard for some to understand. Nothing is going to be free. You'll be paying something in addition to the obvious tax increase.
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https://www.verywell.com/why-am-i-being-forced-into-medicare-at-age-65-1738542
are you sure your current insurance would be cheaper that just paying for supplemental insurance ? and are you willing to forfeit any and all SS benefits. You can reject Medicare but you also won't be able to claim your payments for social security. Crunch those numbers again guy. Most supplemental insurance providers are wayyyyy cheaper than paying for just a private insurer
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Nobody is forcing you out of coverage if that's what you want and you pay for it yourself. Private insurance would still exist, the only difference would be that 100% of Americans are covered whether they can pay for it or not. If you want to get a nose job and you buy it yourself, nobody would stop you. The idea that you would be stripped of your ability to pay for private coverage outside of universal coverage is a right wing talking point which holds no basis in reality.
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Oh nonsense. 80 million people receive coverage through an employer. Employers will drop that coverage.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
That's not forcing anyone out of coverage, just like I said. It's simply switching providers. 40 million Americans would gain full coverage. This system is supported by every single modern nation on Earth and nobody goes without coverage. The propaganda you peddle helps keep America the only modern nation without universal healthcare coverage, which disproportionately affects poor and minorities the most. The majority of Americans support universal healthcare.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
That's not forcing anyone out of coverage, just like I said. It's simply switching providers. 40 million Americans would gain full coverage. This system is supported by every single modern nation on Earth and nobody goes without coverage. The propaganda you peddle helps keep America the only modern nation without universal healthcare coverage, which disproportionately affects poor and minorities the most. The majority of Americans support universal healthcare.
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Any candidate running in the fall election who endorses universal health care over the ACA as their policy for health care will be pummeled by their Republican adversary who will say exactly what I said. People will be forced off the plans they like and into Medicare. That's a losing position in districts where Democrats are trying to unseat a Republican.

In the long run, I support universal health care coverage payed through the US government. In the short run, meaning 2018, the public is accepting the idea of fixing the ACA and that's what Democrats should run on in order to take back the government. Progress, dude. That's what I'm talking about. Your idealistic liberalism is all or nothing which really means we get no progress. Bernie hasn't done anything of note in his 12 years as a Senator for the same reason.
 
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Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Any candidate running in the fall election who endorses universal health care over the ACA as their policy for health care will be pummeled by their Republican adversary who will say exactly what I said. People will be forced off the plans they like and into Medicare. That's a losing position in districts where Democrats are trying to unseat a Republican.

In the long run, I support universal health care coverage payed through the US government. In the short run, meaning 2018, the public is accepting the idea of fixing the ACA and that's what Democrats should run on in order to take back the government. Progress, dude. That's what I'm talking about. Your idealistic liberalism is all or nothing which really means we get no progress. Bernie hasn't done anything of note in his 12 years as a Senator for the same reason.
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Less than 50% of Americans support the ACA. More than 60% of Americans support universal coverage

Universal coverage is the winning strategy, not the ACA
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Less than 50% of Americans support the ACA. More than 60% of Americans support universal coverage

Universal coverage is the winning strategy, not the ACA
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more than 50% of americans support the ACA

universal failed 20-80 in a blue state that hillary won
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
If you're willing to compromise with Republicans on universal healthcare, you won't earn my vote. Earning my vote is contingent upon you supporting a system of universal healthcare. Not access to universal healthcare, actual universal healthcare. The overwhelming majority of Democrats support that position. A plurality of Republicans support it. The only reason a politician wouldn't is because (s)he's being paid not to.

Infrastructure spending, we get a D+ which translates to tens of millions/year in repairs and a much bigger net loss on GDP.

Schools and education, teachers are given slave wages while they still have to buy their own students school supplies. This should not be happening in the richest nation the world has ever seen. We've given up, as a society, on educating future generations because we've been told that money could be better used manufacturing bullets and bombs. Endless resources when it comes to funding never ending wars, can't afford it when it comes to teaching about them.

Social security? Not until you're 70, don't be greedy! Even though you paid into it your entire working life... That's money many people will never see since they selfishly chose to die before reaching retirement age after working themselves to the bone their entire career. Go USA!

What a sham
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Here, here!
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
“The proposal came too soon and too fast for where voters were,” Joel Dyar, who worked as state field director for the ColoradoCare Yes campaign, says.

Some of that failure is attributable to the unique challenges of adopting single-payer through a ballot initiative, and at the state level. Because Colorado’s constitution bans public funding for abortions, ColoradoCare would’ve taken away access to abortion from the hundreds of thousands of women currently in private health plans that cover the procedure. That earned the amendment the opposition of NARAL Pro-Choice Coloradoand Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains, two leading progressive groups in the state. “They didn’t check in advance to see if this was a problem,” Karen Middleton, the executive director of NARAL Pro-Choice Colorado, recalls. “By the time anyone had seen the language, it was already locked in.”

And because the proposal had to be set in stone in order to appear on the ballot, advocates didn’t have time to negotiate with key stakeholders on details of the plan, meaning few stakeholders bought in. Many progressive think tanks like the Colorado Fiscal Institute and the Bell Policy Center, unions like the United Food and Commercial Workers, and advocacy groups like ProgressNow Colorado wound up opposing the plan. “A poorly thought-through initiative like Amendment 69 does violence to the future of single-payer in Colorado,” Ian Silverii, ProgressNow Colorado’s executive director, says.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/14/16296132/colorado-single-payer-ballot-initiative-failure
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Way to beat him over the head with the truth. If course he will change the subject, because that's what dishonest people do.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Colorado is proof that to conservative minded voters -- which is practically everybody -- universal healthcare is a policy that is an uncomfortable issue and a loser when the whole universal healthcare enchilada is mandated all at once.

80 million people in this country have healthcare provided through private insurance companies. 60 million of them like the plan they are in. Sanders health care plan -- which has no price tag on it -- would force everybody into Medicare. 60 million pissed off voters is an insurmountable obstacle in this country.

Do you really think Congress can win back the House, much less the Senate when there are 60 million people opposed to the core policy you and other Cult of Sanders people would force down their throats.

Dude, you are a basket case when it comes to understanding the current situation. There is great support for sustaining if not improving the ACA. At this time your idea of univerasal healthcare and forcing it upon the people of this country is a gift to Republicans and would lead to an other two years of Republican control of the entire US government.

Are you OK with that?
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I live in Colorado. It was a poorly written bill.

That's the story.

Make up any story that makes you feel better but you're not a local.

You really need to stop taking political advice from the likes of Buckwit. It just makes you look stupid.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
tangerinegreen555 said:
Forcing everybody into Medicare is a bad idea.

I have to sign up for Medicare next year. I'm not looking forward to it. I'm contractually forced to sign up for it. My current insurance seems better.

These people don't seem to understand that Medicare, like private insurance, DOES NOT OFFER 100% coverage.

You still need supplemental insurance that also DOES NOT OFFER 100% coverage.

This must be hard for some to understand. Nothing is going to be free. You'll be paying something in addition to the obvious tax increase.
Click to expand...
Hey, so why not hold your representatives accountable for making Medicare better?

Crazy talk!
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
He slaughtered that talking point already.

The fact that you still cling to it says it all about the paucity of your arguments.
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he said the *only* reason someone wouldn't support universal healthcare was if they were bought and paid for

who bought and paid for 80% of coloradans?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I live in Colorado. It was a poorly written bill.

That's the story.

Make up any story that makes you feel better but you're not a local.

You really need to stop taking political advice from the likes of Buckwit. It just makes you look stupid.
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Sanders bill is poorly written. No cost estimates, no means of paying for it. But, yeah, everybody just moves into Medicare and leaves private insurance behind. There are 60 million people who are going to hate that idea. Not kidding. That's how many people who say they like the private plan they are in.

Totally a dead loser in most districts of the country. That bill is a prescription for how the Republicans keep the house and grow a majority in the Senate.
 
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