What is this?

Plants are about 7 weeks old. Was using 300 watt MH for the first 5 weeks and switch to a Mars 2 400 watt led about 2 weeks ago. Using hempy style grow with 100% and am using faucet water ph to 5.8. I use dyna gro folliage @ 2.5ml per gallon. I first started noticing this problem about two weeks ago and started using Botanicare calmag plus @ 5ml per gallon about a week ago.

Symptoms: I thought it was a magnesium problem by the way the symptoms look as only the bottom leaves being affected and since Im using an Led light which requires calmag. The only problem is the plants are looking worse and showing the same symptoms in a few of the upper leaves.

Other info: My father in law has plants that were started the same time and at the 5 week mark his plants were about 8 inches tall and mine were about 4. We use the same nutes, lighting, water, etc. The only difference is mine stays in the basement and his were in the garage. I started using the sugar/yeast about a week ago and has made a considerable difference in growth. Im guessing that there was a lack of co2 in the basement, even though the heater is in the basement and sucks all the air down there. Also, my father in laws plants are showing none of these symptoms which leaves me to believe its still a calmag problem since I use the same amount of dyna gro an they are showing no signs of deficiencies.

Any ideas? Should I go to 7.5ml of the calmag or up the dyno gro?

Middle leaf:



Lower leaves:

Looks a bit like a zinc def to me.

5.8 is too low for most soils. Your plant is probably locking out nutrients it needs...

Start ph'ing your water to 6.2-6.8 and see if it doesn't start getting better. Could be that simple. Try that before adding more and more stuff to your water.

@Chrono90 Ill check that out thanks, didnt think to look for zinc.

@TheYokel This is 100% perlite so its considered a hydro gro. Ill double check though.

You are using faucet water for a hydro grow?

Have you tested to see how hard it is, how many solids or salts are in it? Do you let the chlorine evaporate before using it?

Hell that might be your issue...

@TheYokel never thought aboutt he solids or chlorine since my father in law is showing no issues. I use everything the same as him but I changed my light to Led because my wife was complaining about the energy use.

You use water out of the same pipes?

You could have calcium build-ups, or copper pipes that are corroding, or 15 different things that makes your tap water a little different than his.

I am NOT saying that this is definitely your problem, just saying that the same city water can be different from 2 different spickets...

@TheYokel yeah, I make up the gallons of water at my house and bring to him. I think it has to do with the light but I'm adding 5ml of calmag to my water and the leaves are getting worse. I'm going to up it to 6.25ml of calmag for one plant to see what happens.

TheYokel said:

5.8 is too low for most soils. Your plant is probably locking out nutrients it needs...

Start ph'ing your water to 6.2-6.8 and see if it doesn't start getting better. Could be that simple. Try that before adding more and more stuff to your water.

Click to expand...

You are talking out your ass here. So stop. Perlite/vermiculite is hydro pH. Coco is close to soil pH, peat is soil pH. I've posted this a million times, but here...




OP I told you before, your environmental factors are not duplicate, and as such you could see a few differences. Plus you said they were from seed, which led me to believe dif phenotypes..

The chlorine/chloramine could be a prob, but it doesn't seem that way. Still, check do a chlorine level test ($12.99 Kit.) You may have to let you water sit for a few days.
Same with calcium. It just doesn't seem that way.

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/problems-pests-disease-control/165512-just-happen-within-7-hours-feeding-2.html
These plants in this thread look similar, and from what little I read, the pH was 4.5 before nutes in soil. So check that your pH meter is properly calibrated. Also check the pH AFTER adding nutes.
Other than that I don't know what to tell you.... uhh what brand are you feeding? What's the n-p-k they are getting? what additional things are listed in the guaranteed analysis (if you can.) Check cannabis specific reviews of the nutes brand if not sure how the nutes normally affect the plants.

@Kush Knight I know you said that before but I just dont know what to do. His plants are around 15" and mine are at 7" and they look like crap for whatever reason. I was going to vent in fresh air but my basement is finished and cant get a pipe in there because of the drop ceiling. Might have to go the co2 route.

Ph meter is calibrated and I ph to 5.8. I use Dyna Gro Foliage 9-3-6. I also started using 5ml of calmag last week and 1ml of silicon. I have seen people use only this straight through flowering with no other amendments. Today I have a tds meter coming in to see what the water looks like. I use 2.5ml per gallon and it also includes:

Calcium: 2%
Magnesium: .5%
Cobalt: .0005%
Copper: .05%
Iron: .1%
Manganese: .05%
Molybdenum: .0009%
Zinc: .05%

paramountads said:

@Kush Knight I know you said that before but I just dont know what to do. His plants are around 15" and mine are at 7" and they look like crap for whatever reason. I was going to vent in fresh air but my basement is finished and cant get a pipe in there because of the drop ceiling. Might have to go the co2 route.

Ph meter is calibrated and I ph to 5.8. I use Dyna Gro Foliage 9-3-6. I also started using 5ml of calmag last week and 1ml of silicon. I have seen people use only this straight through flowering with no other amendments. Today I have a tds meter coming in to see what the water looks like. I use 2.5ml per gallon and it also includes:

Calcium: 2%
Magnesium: .5%
Cobalt: .0005%
Copper: .05%
Iron: .1%
Manganese: .05%
Molybdenum: .0009%
Zinc: .05%

Click to expand...

Damn this ones a toughy lol.
Personally the K is a little high for my liking at this size, but it should be fine.
Be wary as P and K are rather immobile in the medium.The opinion for dyna-gro is rather good.
It may just be chlorine as mentioned before, but damn this ones a tough one. Would need a test kit.
Runoff pH isn't as important but may provide some insight here....
I'm no expert though, so hopefully someone with a more knowledgeable guess will come along.
After the tds meter arrives, test the water, and the runoff. I doubt much salts have built up, but who knows?


I don't know if a flush with chlorine free, pHed water would help, but I would personally try that at least once. If you have and it didn't work, I wouldn't be surprised. This is thoroughly confusing. Oh, and foliar feeding while flushing is a great way to minimize stress on plants while flushing the rootzone.

I'm also wondering (won't cause these burns) but are the lights a slightly different distance from the plant than his plants are from his lights? That is 100% not the problem here, but light intensity does a lot to determine stretch. Also, were you taking temps directly above canopy, near/under the light?

You said you had a heater nearby, what type?
If its throwing out any exhausts (doubt it) it could be why. I know gennys can cause deficiencies.
But again, unlikely.
Goddamn, idk maybe someone more experienced like @Dr.Who @LetsGetCritical or @roldgoldrlg has an idea.
Lol at tagging people I hardly know.

@kushknight I'm at a loss too lol. I flushed about 2 weeks ago when the symptoms started so I don't think salts are an issue either. The heater is a gas vent less. It's in the basement but that was just started as well. If anything should produce more co2. Hopefully someone will think of something. I will post tds results later.

Kush Knight said:

You are talking out your ass here. So stop. Perlite/vermiculite is hydro pH. Coco is close to soil pH, peat is soil pH. I've posted this a million times, but here...

OP I told you before, your environmental factors are not duplicate, and as such you could see a few differences. Plus you said they were from seed, which led me to believe dif phenotypes..

The chlorine/chloramine could be a prob, but it doesn't seem that way. Still, check do a chlorine level test ($12.99 Kit.) You may have to let you water sit for a few days.
Same with calcium. It just doesn't seem that way.

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/problems-pests-disease-control/165512-just-happen-within-7-hours-feeding-2.html
These plants in this thread look similar, and from what little I read, the pH was 4.5 before nutes in soil. So check that your pH meter is properly calibrated. Also check the pH AFTER adding nutes.
Other than that I don't know what to tell you.... uhh what brand are you feeding? What's the n-p-k they are getting? what additional things are listed in the guaranteed analysis (if you can.) Check cannabis specific reviews of the nutes brand if not sure how the nutes normally affect the plants.

Click to expand...

Yes, we've already been over that, and we have already established he is in a hydro environment and that I didn't realize that, and that the ph wasn't it.

Do you read replies? Or find one comment in a thread to spam the same picture you have been posting all over the forums and click "Reply" without finishing the thread?

Just wondering...

TheYokel said:

Yes, we've already been over that, and we have already established he is in a hydro environment and that I didn't realize that, and that the ph wasn't it.

Do you read replies? Or find one comment in a thread to spam the same picture you have been posting all over the forums and click "Reply" without finishing the thread?

Just wondering...

Click to expand...

Does every newly joined member spam over 200 messages in 5 days, just wondering.....

I keep seeing your advice recently, and it is subpar at best in most cases. Which normally means you shouldn't even try "helping" others.


And yeah I saw the replies. Didn't give a shit, I'm tired of your newb bs. The picture was very obvious and included the medium, the post said hempy, and yet you still pull the wrong shit straight out of your ass and present it with an elegant 100% polyester and piss bow-tie to someone who has been looking for help for a while. Didn't see my ass .
I literally was just answering another thread (guess what, you were all over that one too, with sub par advice about autos) and was about to call you out there. But then I decided the ignore button was easier. Sucks for that person you went and misinformed them to the point where I didn't feel like helping anymore. Pulling stats out your ass. I'd venture to guess 75% of people grow from seed to weed with hps. Yeah fucking right.

And the pH pic is so I don't have to retype the same message to correct hydro heads or soil junkie experts or newbs that misinform the others. OP's tend to respect the chart better.

Later.

paramountads said:

@kushknight I'm at a loss too lol. I flushed about 2 weeks ago when the symptoms started so I don't think salts are an issue either. The heater is a gas vent less. It's in the basement but that was just started as well. If anything should produce more co2. Hopefully someone will think of something. I will post tds results later.

Click to expand...

Do those throw off carbon monoxide? Its just a guess, I cant find any pics of CO poisoning so could be way off. And only info I could find says if anything the CO just oxidises to CO2 as theres no hemoglobin for it to bond to in a plant.

If your tds and chlorine content comes back fine, you should try starting bagseed in a separate pot with exact same medium as a control, treating it exactly the same. Or moving an afflicted plant into the other room after preventative pest control. That should hopefully tell you something.

IRDFK

If you do eventually find the problem, the final solution would be much appreciated. If you are really unlucky, it could be one of those rather rare plant diseases somehow infected the roots?
At this point I personally would pour some slightly diluted H202 out of exasperation in hopes of killing some imaginary micro disease. Which probably would make things worse in reality lol.

Kush Knight said:

Does every newly joined member spam over 200 messages in 5 days, just wondering.....

I keep seeing your advice recently, and it is subpar at best in most cases. Which normally means you shouldn't even try "helping" others.

Click to expand...

Not sure where you've seen me spam anything, but point out bad info. I'd rather look like a dick and have someone's plant helped than play an ego game.

Kush Knight said:

Pulling stats out your ass. I'd venture to guess 75% of people grow from seed to weed with hps. Yeah fucking right.

Click to expand...

Not pulling anything out of my ass. I would venture to guess 75% of all people that grow use HPS from seed to weed. Seeing as how most casual growers buy an out-of-the-box HPS system and run with it, I wouldn't see that number being off at all. I would venture to guess if you stuck up a poll, a good 25-40% of this forum alone grows with HPS from seed to weed. Probably more than that.

TheYokel said:

Not sure where you've seen me spam anything, but point out bad info. I'd rather look like a dick and have someone's plant helped than play an ego game.



Not pulling anything out of my ass. I would venture to guess 75% of all people that grow use HPS from seed to weed. Seeing as how most casual growers buy an out-of-the-box HPS system and run with it, I wouldn't see that number being off at all. I would venture to guess if you stuck up a poll, a good 25-40% of this forum alone grows with HPS from seed to weed. Probably more than that.

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25-40%? what happened to 75%?
You have no idea.
Think.
The number of pure cfl grows. Then theres pure led grows. Pure T5. Pure hps. MH to HPS, MH/HPS (mixed spectrum) combo grows (2MH 1 HPS switchable ballasts during veg, reversed during flower). HPS/LEP mixed spectrum 12/12 or 18/6 to 12/12. MH 18/6 to HPS/LEP 12/12.
And those cfls and leds can be and are used very frequently, in combination with any other type of light. You should put up a poll.

With all these grow types and cfl grows taking at least 25% of the indoor cake, 75% from seed to weed with hps? UNREALISTIC. I mean an hps closet/cabinet/stealth grow? No, its a CFL closet/cabinet/stealth grow. And then what about outdoors? 75% of ALL growers.... Hardly 75% of indoor uses HID's.

Most good growers really care about their intensity and quality of spectrum. HPS is lacking in most opinions.
The sun is full spectrum, HPS is ~2700k. No comparison.

Again

Kush Knight said:

Pulling stats out your ass. I'd venture to guess 75% of people grow from seed to weed with hps. Yeah fucking right.

Click to expand...

Kush Knight said:

25-40%? what happened to 75%?
You have no idea.
Think.
The number of pure cfl grows. Then theres pure led grows. Pure T5. Pure hps. MH to HPS, MH/HPS (mixed spectrum) combo grows (2MH 1 HPS switchable ballasts during veg, reversed during flower). HPS/LEP mixed spectrum 12/12 or 18/6. MH 18/6 to HPS/LEP 12/12.
And those cfls and leds can be and are used very frequently, in combination with any other type of light.

With all these grow types and cfl grows taking at least 25% of the cake, 75% from seed to weed with hps? UNREALISTIC.

Most good growers really care about their intensity and quality of spectrum. HPS is lacking in most opinions.
The sun is full spectrum, HPS is ~2700k. No comparison.

Again

Click to expand...

Again, a VAST... VAST majority of casual growers...

Walk into a hydro shop...ask Billy the salesman what light to buy... and leave with a Sun System.

I said 25-40% on this forum alone probably use strictly HPS. This site is by far, not a proper example of any cross-section of casual growers...

TheYokel said:

Again, a VAST... VAST majority of casual growers...

Walk into a hydro shop...ask Billy the salesman what light to buy... and leave with a Sun System.

I said 25-40% on this forum alone probably use strictly HPS. This site is by far, not a proper example of any cross-section of casual growers...

Click to expand...

I'd really be surprised if you could find a legit stat that says 75% of indoor growers use HPS alone. HID's in general, maybe 75% of all indoor growers. Thought you said you yourself were using flouros. I used a t5 this year. Plan on an over the top cfl next year. Really cant afford HIDS right now, and I'm well enough fed to say my life ain't the hardest, and I'm not the poorest. If I CAN'T get HID's, what makes you think the people starting bagseed because they can't afford 20 an 1/8th are gonna be using. Every casual grower Joe Shmoe just has $100-$400 in their pocket for equipment plus $150-$200 for power.....
You are just plain wrong. Like a lot of what I've seen you post this last week.

Anyways, I'm done clicking the show content button and replying in hopes you just admit how off you were.

And a stat comes from your ass if you cant give evidence. Normally has to be a repeatable (at least 75% scientific) study. You don't know, yet you are guessing a solid number (thats way off). I don't have the stats or I'd be posting em and be saying a definite number.