What has Trump done to this country?

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
In normal times Biden wouldn't even be running. I want him to win but he ain't gonna solve America's issues, there needs to be bigger change than he'd be ready to implement. Maybe Harris will take over from him in 2024, if the Dems win this one.
I support much of what the so-called progressive left want. I have to say, though, look at the election results and tell me that this country is ready to enact them.

I think the 2024 is still too early. Harris is a smart politician and I trust her judgement. Just wait for the 10% of the Democratic Party who call themselves "Progressives" to act as though they know what to do. They haven't won a single seat in a contested district. They only win in safe Democratic districts. Until they start winning against competitive Republican challengers, they can't be taken very seriously.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
You can't deveate too far from the middle in one step, people get nervous (and rightly so). Think boiled frog instead. Show that you can manage, bring about a reasonable amount of change in a set period of time and you will have people behind you.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Let's not forget the horrific insult to minorities, as half of America told them who they really are, they also told their fellow white Americans and the world. Nobody is going to compromise with them over racism and bigotry, those days are done, not the democrats, minorities are too powerful a force in the party these days.

The republicans tried Jim Crow on the majority of Americans in this election, there will be a reckoning for this one day with changed election laws and voting rights.
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Millions of White voters are once again showing who they are

Washington (CNN)Millions of White voters are once again showing who they are and -- spoiler -- it's not really that great for America, but in particular for Black and brown people.

The miasmic uncertainty hanging over the 2020 presidential election, as hundreds of thousands of legal votes in key battleground states continue to be counted, is damning, even if Democrat Joe Biden ekes out a victory.

For one thing, despite four years of President Donald Trump -- that is, of a man who has made White nationalism a central part of his administration and whose abject negligence in the face of a pandemic has contributed to more than 230,000 dead -- millions of voters are turning out for him.

White voters, especially. While early exit polls (which, it's important to underscore, are notoriously mercurial) indicate that Trump may receive more support from voters of color this year than he did in 2016, the more significant story is that his White base seems sturdy.

As the political scientist Melanye Price wrote in October of the Trump campaign's efforts to court Black men, "Even if Black male Republican support increases in 2020, most of the responsibility for a second Trump victory will be attributable to White voters."

Indeed, one thing that this week has clarified is the lengths to which many White Americans are willing to go in order to protect their Whiteness, to centralize it, even after a summer that saw unprecedented support for the Black Lives Matter movement.

But that's only a piece of why the election is so shameful.
That the contest appears as tight as it does speaks to the relative success of the Republican Party, the minority party, at holding on to power via maneuvering such as disenfranchisement, gerrymandering and voter suppression, which disproportionately affect voters of color, who overwhelmingly back the Democratic Party.

For instance, one state that had pundits on edge was Florida. Many wondered whether it might go into Biden's column, given the direction of preelection polling. Ultimately, Trump won the state by a wafer-thin margin. His victory, though, was helped by the fact that many people didn't have access to the ballot box.

After 65% of Floridians voted in 2018 to restore voting rights to former felons, the state's "Republican-led legislature and governor then decided to overrule the will of the voters by creating new obstacles for former felons to vote, especially paying fees and fines," Julio Capó Jr. and Melba V. Pearson wrote on Tuesday for The Washington Post, calling the move "a 21st-century version of Jim Crow." "In many ways, it amounts to a poll tax by a new name. Some estimates indicated 1.4 million Floridians would have received their right to vote back. But as a result of the legislature's actions, only about 300,000 of them were eligible to register to vote."

Similarly, the Mississippi Free Press' Ashton Pittman recently reported that, over the summer, election officials in Madison County "quietly rezoned" 2,000 mostly Black and Hispanic voters out of a majority-White precinct into a cramped majority non-White precinct with few parking spaces, in what many believe is a means of making the area solidly Republican.

"My view is that this is being done to discourage minorities from voting," Carol Mann, a Democratic candidate for District 1 election commissioner, told the Mississippi Free Press. "These streets and these apartment complexes, and I can tell you having gone through all of them and knocking on doors in this area, are vastly majority African American."
While galling, these two connected elements of the election -- White voters' buoying of Trump, the jockeying of a minority party to maintain control of a country that increasingly rejects it -- aren't surprising. Arguably, they reveal what America has always been.

Or as the African American studies professor Eddie S. Glaude Jr. says in a video that's been recirculating this week, "It's easy for us to place it all on Donald Trump's shoulders. ... (But) this is us."
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
You can't deveate too far from the middle in one step, people get nervous (and rightly so). Think boiled frog instead. Show that you can manage, bring about a reasonable amount of change in a set period of time and you will have people behind you.
It's called incrementalism and to me, it's what being a liberal progressive is all about. What our so-called "Progressives" are is radical. They adovcate rapid change. I'm not against rapid change, I'm against poor governance and I'm against suppressing the will of the majority. Bernie Sanders, for example was both of those. I am in complete sympathy with moderate conservatives who were driven to Trump because they thought Democrats were like Sanders or worse. I can't forgive them for supporting Trump but willing to move on if they are and find ways to meet common objectives, of which there are many.

Biden will have his hands full, what with the radical right who support fascism in the form of white power and the radical left who have no competency in government.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
In normal times Biden wouldn't even be running. I want him to win but he ain't gonna solve America's issues, there needs to be bigger change than he'd be ready to implement. Maybe Harris will take over from him in 2024, if the Dems win this one.
What I think is most important is for Biden to fight and win the propaganda war over the next couple years.

If we can't even agree on what facts are, it will be very difficult to make any real progress as a nation.

Fix propaganda (the shit that led to hate radio, Fox Trump tv, and all the propaganda trolls online(I would love a law that says politicians also much be sworn in (so they can't lie) during hearings)), while tackling dark money in politics, expose all the foreign nations attacking our democracy, rebuild the economy while unleashing every tool we have on the pandemic, Expose (and deal with) white supremacists throughout our government institutions (like the police), work out a pathway to fix the court debacle Trump and McConnell has left us (that can be a 2024 platform IMO), and rebuild our alliances with the world.

Secure more wins in 2022 for the Democratic party and ride off into the sunset in 2024 and let the real work for the future begin.

 

potroastV2

Well-Known Member
What I think is most important is for Biden to fight and win the propaganda war over the next couple years.

If we can't even agree on what facts are, it will be very difficult to make any real progress as a nation.

Fix propaganda (the shit that led to hate radio, Fox Trump tv, and all the propaganda trolls online(I would love a law that says politicians also much be sworn in (so they can't lie) during hearings)), while tackling dark money in politics, expose all the foreign nations attacking our democracy, rebuild the economy while unleashing every tool we have on the pandemic, Expose (and deal with) white supremacists throughout our government institutions (like the police), work out a pathway to fix the court debacle Trump and McConnell has left us (that can be a 2024 platform IMO), and rebuild our alliances with the world.

Secure more wins in 2022 for the Democratic party and ride off into the sunset in 2024 and let the real work for the future begin.


That's all well and good, get rid of propaganda. But swearing in a Politician will not stop anything. Have you ever been to a court trial? The cops swear to tell the truth while standing in front of the judge, and then lie their ass off on the witness stand. Many times the jurors say afterward that they knew the cops were lying. There is just no stopping the corruption that is going on with the pigs, and many politicians.

That's the main problem. When the POTUS is corrupt, everyone else thinks it's OK to do the same.


:mrgreen:
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
That's all well and good, get rid of propaganda. But swearing in a Politician will not stop anything. Have you ever been to a court trial? The cops swear to tell the truth while standing in front of the judge, and then lie their ass off on the witness stand. Many times the jurors say afterward that they knew the cops were lying. There is just no stopping the corruption that is going on with the pigs, and many politicians.

That's the main problem. When the POTUS is corrupt, everyone else thinks it's OK to do the same.


:mrgreen:
The fish rots from the head down.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
That's all well and good, get rid of propaganda. But swearing in a Politician will not stop anything. Have you ever been to a court trial? The cops swear to tell the truth while standing in front of the judge, and then lie their ass off on the witness stand. Many times the jurors say afterward that they knew the cops were lying. There is just no stopping the corruption that is going on with the pigs, and many politicians.

That's the main problem. When the POTUS is corrupt, everyone else thinks it's OK to do the same.


:mrgreen:
At least then there is a record to hang them with when they lie.

I am a big fan of accountability, especially with people we allow to have power in our society. I am hopeful Trump messed it up enough that it gets applied to everyone evenly. But am realistic about there being a lot of work to do to get to that point.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
That's all well and good, get rid of propaganda. But swearing in a Politician will not stop anything. Have you ever been to a court trial? The cops swear to tell the truth while standing in front of the judge, and then lie their ass off on the witness stand. Many times the jurors say afterward that they knew the cops were lying. There is just no stopping the corruption that is going on with the pigs, and many politicians.

That's the main problem. When the POTUS is corrupt, everyone else thinks it's OK to do the same.


:mrgreen:
that's why if you're ever in a situation where they got you in interview..guilty, innocent or anywhere in between; you ask for an attorney. period. you say nothing you do nothing you take no polygraph; you may end up in lockup until you get your attorney assigned..do you know how many innocent people go to jail or are on death row right now because of how they interrogate? so bad people actually confess to make them stop and go away.

anything you say, can and will be used against you.

i don't care if they harrass (and they will), won't let you smoke or have water it's all on tape. they tell you the other person already told them and you need to save yourself this is the only chance you'll get because everyone is going to want a deal- you better be first (i thought the other person just told you) THEY LIE THEIR ASSES OFF AND IT'S LEGAL..you owe them nothing and they're just looking for a bed to fill and say they did their jobs. doesn't matter if you're the right person or not.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
that's why if you're ever in a situation where they got you in interview..guilty, innocent or anywhere in between; you ask for an attorney. period. you say nothing you do nothing you take no polygraph; you may end up in lockup until you get your attorney assigned..do you know how many innocent people go to jail or are on death row right now because of how they interrogate? so bad people actually confess to make them stop and go away.

anything you say, can and will be used against you.

i don't care if they harrass (and they will), won't let you smoke or have water it's all on tape. they tell you the other person already told them and you need to save yourself this is the only chance you'll get because everyone is going to want a deal- you better be first (i thought the other person just told you) THEY LIE THEIR ASSES OFF AND IT'S LEGAL..you owe them nothing and they're just looking for a bed to fill and say they did their jobs. doesn't matter if you're the right person or not.
I would love to see a law that grants every citizens free access to a attorney for life. And tax the wealthiest/corporations to pay for it.
 

Stone_Free

Well-Known Member
Wealthy people/corporations paying taxes? I almost fell over laughing. :lol: :lol:

Republicans = waiting on that trickle down economy :lol: :lol:
Meanwhile you have assholes like McConnell saying "The socialists want to take your jobs" and people believe that shit, they don't understand the basics of politics - socialists are about people, not corporations. McConnell is part of the American disease.
BTW I'm not arguing for socialism, just stating the fact that people like McConnell will tell lies to protect his corporate ass.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Meanwhile you have assholes like McConnell saying "The socialists want to take your jobs" and people believe that shit, they don't understand the basics of politics - socialists are about people, not corporations. McConnell is part of the American disease.
BTW I'm not arguing for socialism, just stating the fact that people like McConnell will tell lies to protect his corporate ass.
we can only hope that skin slip on his hand means his circulatory system is breaking down into organ failure and he will be dead soon; as ornery and evil as he, is Satan will be calling shortly..
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Meanwhile you have assholes like McConnell saying "The socialists want to take your jobs" and people believe that shit, they don't understand the basics of politics - socialists are about people, not corporations. McConnell is part of the American disease.
BTW I'm not arguing for socialism, just stating the fact that people like McConnell will tell lies to protect his corporate ass.
they used to say 'motor cars' will take your job.
 

Stone_Free

Well-Known Member
Mick Mulvaney, Donald Trump’s former acting chief of staff who now serves as the US special envoy for Northern Ireland, said he expects the president to run again in 2024 if he loses to Joe Biden.
“I would absolutely expect the president to stay involved in politics and would absolutely put him on the shortlist of people who are likely to run in 2024,” Mulvaney said during a webinar hosted by an Irish think tank.
The president has also discussed a potential 2024 run with some of his aides, according to CNN.

Someone needs to whisper "Supermax prison" in Trump's lugholes.... :D
 

Stone_Free

Well-Known Member

In several swing states, late ballots will still be counted as long as they were postmarked by Election Day and received by Friday, according to state law. They include Nevada, where 4,518 ballots arrived after Election Day, as well as North Carolina (2,958) and Pennsylvania, (3,439). But in other states — such as Arizona, where 864 ballots were delayed, and Georgia, where 853 were delayed — votes that did not reach election officials by Nov. 3 will be disqualified
Because the counts are not done in those states, it is unclear whether undelivered ballots would have made a difference in deciding the presidential election. But the delivery failures highlight the risks in relying on the mail service to deliver ballots close to Election Day.


How ironic it would be if Trump lost because he defunded the USPS and votes for him didn't get counted :)
 
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