What deficiency is this?

jemstone said:

God damn idiot knuckle dragging growers. Don't even know basic jr high science.
Magnesium is an essential nutrient it is the key to the others working. It doesn't dissolve salt build up, that makes no sense. It frees up macro and micronutrients to be available which is not dissolving.
Testing you soil runnoff with your feed water gives erroneous results and has no relevance to what is happening with the plants. If you want to test the soil pH you need distilled water, a jar and at least 30 minutes.

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Magnesium is included in every bottle of grow juice made. Organic growers use Epson salt as the plant uses it for bud site development , also in dissolving mineral salt deposits left over from salt based nutes.
Why does he need to add it if he never fed his plant before and he will be getting it the food he needs?before you run around indicating others are stupid you should know what you are talking about first.
All he has to do is pour clean pH balanced water in food . Catch the run off and check it . If he hasn't fed it there should be not much of a problem .
Why do you good damn egg heads over think things over engineer things , when most all of this is quit simple.
You spent more time talking the issue to death than it takes to just do it.
Most of you egg heads like this can't even grow because you are to busy thinking about things and talking about things and not enough time doing them.
Can you imagine how much growing you could be doing if you were not thinking something to death all the time?

Again you have posted incorrect information. Why are you such an ass? And your reading comprehension level is equivalent to a 3rd grader.

ColoradoHighGrower said:

Do all GH nutes change pH/dynamically buffer like that by design? What's the end pH, if it starts at 5.2, and isn't 5.2 pretty low (even if temporary) for soil mixes? I'm pretty much a nube still, so just curious. Bring us to church, @max420thc

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5.2 is actually not low at all.
Almost all salt based nutes drive down the PH. Almost all nutes are salt based unless organic.
A couple of company's claim to be protien based (lie)
Lots of company's nutes are ballanced to self ajust the PH.
GH.AN, lots of them.
The water normally is at around 7 out of the ground or tap
There is a chart I think on this site that will give you the PH ranges the plant uptakes nutrients at. At each PH range it will up take different micro and macro nutrients it needs
As the PH drifts back up and it will , it will drift back up through the range the plant uptakes and uses these elements .
Always good to garden lime soil well.
Garden lime will ajust the soil PH to around seven . The water is at seven .
The food is at 5.2 or so, will be ok if 5.4 or 5 even , the soil will raise the PH back to seven ranging through all the PH ranges for your plant to be healthy and happy and get what it needs .

braves1995 said:

That makes sense. I pulled the dead yellow leaves and the next day there were as many or more so I figured it was still robbing nitrogen because it’s not getting it from its roots. The top growth looks fine to me. A bit lime colored but not bad. Seems healthy to me. Am I wrong in thinking if the existing leaves keep turning yellow that the plant is still deficient?

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If the leaves still turn is because that the plant already gave the order to rob that leaf of its goods and that is hard to just stop. It will continue to rob leaves till it feels it doesnt have to so you will still see some fading. I have some house and garden nitrogen boost [I checked it yesterday what the ppm was when you applied it so that is what I will recommend but you can use any nitrogen product]. So 1ml of hng nitrogen boost in 1 gal of ro water is about 60 ppm's maybe go as high as 80-90 ppms to be aggressive -- So that phed to 6.5 on top of your normal feeding is what you need to add. If you want to add some epsom salt at about 1 1/2 tsp to the gallon of nitrogen boost mix would help also. And then along with some foliar feeding to help you should be good. and then wait you dont need to keep adding nitrogen every five minutes.

jemstone said:

God damn idiot knuckle dragging growers. Don't even know basic jr high science.
Magnesium is an essential nutrient it is the key to the others working. It doesn't dissolve salt build up, that makes no sense. It frees up macro and micronutrients to be available which is not dissolving.
Testing you soil runnoff with your feed water gives erroneous results and has no relevance to what is happening with the plants. If you want to test the soil pH you need distilled water, a jar and at least 30 minutes.

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Magnesium exchanges nutrients that the plant is hoarding and makes those nutrients that are mobile available to the rest of the plant.

max420thc said:

5.2 is actually not low at all.
Almost all salt based nutes drive down the PH. Almost all nutes are salt based unless organic.
A couple of company's claim to be protien based (lie)
Lots of company's nutes are ballanced to self ajust the PH.
GH.AN, lots of them.
The water normally is at around 7 out of the ground or tap
There is a chart I think on this site that will give you the PH ranges the plant uptakes nutrients at. At each PH range it will up take different micro and macro nutrients it needs
As the PH drifts back up and it will , it will drift back up through the range the plant uptakes and uses these elements .
Always good to garden lime soil well.
Garden lime will ajust the soil PH to around seven . The water is at seven .
The food is at 5.2 or so, will be ok if 5.4 or 5 even , the soil will raise the PH back to seven ranging through all the PH ranges for your plant to be healthy and happy and get what it needs .

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The plant raises and lowers the soil ph to what it wants/needs at the root surface. The soil doesnt raise or lower the ph. The soil is just there getting raised or lowered by the plant or what the water ph is when applied then the plant will tell the soil what the ph needs to be.

Bernie420 said:

If the leaves still turn is because that the plant already gave the order to rob that leaf of its goods and that is hard to just stop. It will continue to rob leaves till it feels it doesnt have to so you will still see some fading. I have some house and garden nitrogen boost [I checked it yesterday what the ppm was when you applied it so that is what I will recommend but you can use any nitrogen product]. So 1ml of hng nitrogen boost in 1 gal of ro water is about 60 ppm's maybe go as high as 80-90 ppms to be aggressive -- So that phed to 6.5 on top of your normal feeding is what you need to add. If you want to add some epsom salt at about 1 1/2 tsp to the gallon of nitrogen boost mix would help also. And then along with some foliar feeding to help you should be good. and then wait you dont need to keep adding nitrogen every five minutes.

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How long do you give a plant to respond to changes in nutrients or enviornment? I don’t want to keep bombarding them with changes but I want to correct the deffiencys asap when they arise.

braves1995 said:

How long do you give a plant to respond to changes in nutrients or enviornment? I don’t want to keep bombarding them with changes but I want to correct the deffiencys asap when they arise.

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They say something like N the plant will respond in a few hours and see changes in a couple of days and something like mag it might take a week to see changes. You kind of have to develop your grower talent and go by what you feel, along with the knowledge of what your doing and trying to accomplish. Less is more and you have to let the plant respond and wait. Think proper balanced nutrition. Nothing about growing a plant happens overnight except the possibility of killing it.

Bernie420 said:

The plant raises and lowers the soil ph to what it wants/needs at the root surface. The soil doesnt raise or lower the ph. The soil is just there getting raised or lowered by the plant or what the water ph is when applied then the plant will tell the soil what the ph needs to be.

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The plant raises and lowers the soil PH?
Ridiculous

max320thc, is your avatar a picture of you?

looks like Mag problem,use some cal-mag for the next feeding, maybe cute down on nutrition and use cal-mag only.

max420thc said:

The plant raises and lowers the soil PH?
Ridiculous

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Right at the rhizosphere.

Rhizosphere - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizosphere
The rhizosphere is the narrow region of soil that is directly influenced by root secretions and associated soil microorganisms. The rhizosphere contains many bacteria and other microorganisms that feed on sloughed-off plant cells, termed rhizodeposition, and the proteins and sugars released by roots.

What does that have to do with soil PH?
What does that have to do with water PH or things such as too much molasses driving the soil PH down ?
I know the plane produces it's own bennificial bacteria . But the plant does not ajust it's own pH.
That's the whole point of putting garden lime in the soil .garden lime will ajust the pH and will not let it go over 7.
So when you put your nutrients in the soil at 5.2 it will automatically go up ranging the pH through the ranges the plant uptakes at.
You obviously have not been growing long enough to have PH issues .
Once you have them you learn to keep it from happening.

max420thc said:

What does that have to do with soil PH?
What does that have to do with water PH or things such as too much molasses driving the soil PH down ?
I know the plane produces it's own bennificial bacteria . But the plant does not ajust it's own pH.
That's the whole point of putting garden lime in the soil .garden lime will ajust the pH and will not let it go over 7.
So when you put your nutrients in the soil at 5.2 it will automatically go up ranging the pH through the ranges the plant uptakes at.
You obviously have not been growing long enough to have PH issues .
Once you have them you learn to keep it from happening.

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I dont know the big words but I think it has to do with cation exchange and the sort. In soil you want to water at about 6.5ph and the plant will adjust what it really needs the ph to be at, at the root zone/rhizosphere. The plant doesnt adjust acres of soil just right at the rhizosphere. The plant will release Volatile organic compounds {voc} and attract beneficial microbes. I dont think that the plant actually makes beneficial bacteria, i've never heard of that. I myself wouldn't think its a good idea to feed soil plants at 5.2 and hope that it raises up more than likely your causing nutrient deficiencies and stressing the plant

Some misleading posts in this thread for sure..especially the one who said epsom salts are to 'dissolve'? lol..other salts?..that could not be farther from the truth! If you have a deficiency not caused by a lockout, then flushing them would only cause more problems..vice versa if you have a lockout due to a toxicity, or if the ph is off in the medium, then adding more of anything will just send you in a circle where you're correcting one issue after another. Forget about testing runoff as it's highly unreliable and simply catching the runoff of your irrigation water is not an accurate way to test your medium's ph! As one mentioned..using lime at the start would have helped with keeping ph near normal as peat can acidify quickly. You want to water with a ph of around 5.8-6.3. With that being said, the plants do look underwatered, either not often enough, or not enough water when you do water. Definitely lacking in nitrogen. Coco is usually flushed and treated with cal mag when planting into it, but the washing is important as it can contain alot of sodium depending on quality. To be certain, flush it with ph'd water at 6.1 or 6.2 with calmag. A ppm meter would help as then you'd know what concentration you're feeding at and can adjust accordingly next time. Not sure what you're feeding with, but after flush, increase overall feed slightly, namely nitrogen and see how she responds in 2-3 days. I'll dig up a pic from a plant i had that i kind of let go (entire grow was let go) lol..starved in other words and the rebound it took within a couple days and then a week. Btw, this plant was hungry, especially for nitrogen..this was after a 25-10-10 feed..i was also in peat moss, perlite, coco and worm castings.

Blitz35 said:

Some misleading posts in this thread for sure..especially the one who said epsom salts are to 'dissolve'? lol..other salts?..that could not be farther from the truth! If you have a deficiency not caused by a lockout, then flushing them would only cause more problems..vice versa if you have a lockout due to a toxicity, or if the ph is off in the medium, then adding more of anything will just send you in a circle where you're correcting one issue after another. Forget about testing runoff as it's highly unreliable and simply catching the runoff of your irrigation water is not an accurate way to test your medium's ph! As one mentioned..using lime at the start would have helped with keeping ph near normal as peat can acidify quickly. You want to water with a ph of around 5.8-6.3. With that being said, the plants do look underwatered, either not often enough, or not enough water when you do water. Definitely lacking in nitrogen. Coco is usually flushed and treated with cal mag when planting into it, but the washing is important as it can contain alot of sodium depending on quality. To be certain, flush it with ph'd water at 6.1 or 6.2 with calmag. A ppm meter would help as then you'd know what concentration you're feeding at and can adjust accordingly next time. Not sure what you're feeding with, but after flush, increase overall feed slightly, namely nitrogen and see how she responds in 2-3 days. I'll dig up a pic from a plant i had that i kind of let go (entire grow was let go) lol..starved in other words and the rebound it took within a couple days and then a week. Btw, this plant was hungry, especially for nitrogen..this was after a 25-10-10 feed..i was also in peat moss, perlite, coco and worm castings.

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I agree with alot of what you say . But not in other way.
I have used Lucas formula for awhile .
Lucas will self ajust the pH in clean prefferable RO water . It will ajust the mix automatically to 5.2 give or take .2
It can be used in dirt or hydro.
If you have in a res you would notice by the next day the pH will ajust to about 7. In a day it floats through the pH range that the plant uptakes what it wants at the correct pH it wants.
I think there is a good chance on international canagraphic magazine board you will find a chart of pH ranges the plant uptakes macro and micro nutrients.
It seems to be a very common misconception that a pH of 5 will harm the plant . It will not because it does not stay at that level very long.

Everyone I know of including myself have had very good results with it. Although in soil you cut back on the strength of it some.
When I first started using it I was Leary too of the pH being to low. But it's not. It works very well and is inexpensive to use.
Then I had long debates late at night with a VERY skilled elite grower. (4to6 lbs a 1000 watt HPS.
Then I tried it on some plants to see . Guess what? It works very well.
I will post some of my plants in here when I get back home from my business trip then you tell me.
The pictures of it are on my computer and I do not have them with me right now.
Soil growers should always garden lime their soil. Especially if they use for farms soil as batch's if it can have inconsistent pH . Growers will grow with it and sometimes have good results and sometimes bad because of the pH being to low .
Seeing is believing.
Epson salt have been used for decades way before there were flushing solution made by old school growers .
If you want to clean heavy grease of your hands guess what works well? Motor oil . Yeah grease to clean grease up .
I know salts are not grease but it is the same principal . The Epson salt attach's it self to the other salt helping dissolve it some. Some I say because you will never flush all the left over nutrients salt completely.
So what you may think is misleading posts are actually not misleading . It is simply because you have no experience with it.
Still lots of commercial growers still flush with Epson salt.
It's cheap as hell and works.
Epson salt are also used by many organic growers . But just to add some magnesium to the soil.
You have been pretty cool , I don't want to insult you or anything but you are seriously going to tell all the growers who use Lucas formula that their shit won't work because the pH is to low? Seriously ?
It works flawlessly in dirt and hydro. For decades it's worked.
It's easy to look up on line with thousands of growers who use this cannabis specific formula .
Not only does the plant do well but you will also have a excellent quality product

max420thc said:

I agree with alot of what you say . But not in other way.
I have used Lucas formula for awhile .
Lucas will self ajust the pH in clean prefferable RO water . It will ajust the mix automatically to 5.2 give or take .2
It can be used in dirt or hydro.
If you have in a res you would notice by the next day the pH will ajust to about 7. In a day it floats through the pH range that the plant uptakes what it wants at the correct pH it wants.
I think there is a good chance on international canagraphic magazine board you will find a chart of pH ranges the plant uptakes macro and micro nutrients.
It seems to be a very common misconception that a pH of 5 will harm the plant . It will not because it does not stay at that level very long.

Everyone I know of including myself have had very good results with it. Although in soil you cut back on the strength of it some.
When I first started using it I was Leary too of the pH being to low. But it's not. It works very well and is inexpensive to use.
Then I had long debates late at night with a VERY skilled elite grower. (4to6 lbs a 1000 watt HPS.
Then I tried it on some plants to see . Guess what? It works very well.
I will post some of my plants in here when I get back home from my business trip then you tell me.
The pictures of it are on my computer and I do not have them with me right now.
Soil growers should always garden lime their soil. Especially if they use for farms soil as batch's if it can have inconsistent pH . Growers will grow with it and sometimes have good results and sometimes bad because of the pH being to low .
Seeing is believing.
Epson salt have been used for decades way before there were flushing solution made by old school growers .
If you want to clean heavy grease of your hands guess what works well? Motor oil . Yeah grease to clean grease up .
I know salts are not grease but it is the same principal . The Epson salt attach's it self to the other salt helping dissolve it some. Some I say because you will never flush all the left over nutrients salt completely.
So what you may think is misleading posts are actually not misleading . It is simply because you have no experience with it.
Still lots of commercial growers still flush with Epson salt.
It's cheap as hell and works.
Epson salt are also used by many organic growers . But just to add some magnesium to the soil.
You have been pretty cool , I don't want to insult you or anything but you are seriously going to tell all the growers who use Lucas formula that their shit won't work because the pH is to low? Seriously ?
It works flawlessly in dirt and hydro. For decades it's worked.
It's easy to look up on line with thousands of growers who use this cannabis specific formula .
Not only does the plant do well but you will also have a excellent quality product

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What in the world are you talking about? Where and when did i mention the lucas formula and saying anything about it with regards to ph?! All i said was what the ideal ph he should use to flush his medium with, i said nothing about the lucas formula lol. But since you brought it up, what does that even have to do with the topic, ok, so gh's lucas formula gives you perfect ph if using with ro water, what's the point? OP isn't using this formula and idk what water he's using. As for flushing with epsom salt, that's completely 100% different than what you said..you said epsom salts 'dissolve' other salts!..no they do not! That's not why they are used during flushing, the same way some people use molasses during flushing, its not because molasses dissolves other salts. I think you have alot to read up on, no offense, happy smoking!

Blitz35 said:

What in the world are you talking about? Where and when did i mention the lucas formula and saying anything about it with regards to ph?! All i said was what the ideal ph he should use to flush his medium with, i said nothing about the lucas formula lol. But since you brought it up, what does that even have to do with the topic, ok, so gh's lucas formula gives you perfect ph if using with ro water, what's the point? OP isn't using this formula and idk what water he's using. As for flushing with epsom salt, that's completely 100% different than what you said..you said epsom salts 'dissolve' other salts!..no they do not! That's not why they are used during flushing, the same way some people use molasses during flushing, its not because molasses dissolves other salts. I think you have alot to read up on, no offense, happy smoking!

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Epson salt are used for flushing what? What are you flushing ? The dirt out?
No you are flushing to remove nutrients salts.

Blitz35 said:

What in the world are you talking about? Where and when did i mention the lucas formula and saying anything about it with regards to ph?! All i said was what the ideal ph he should use to flush his medium with, i said nothing about the lucas formula lol. But since you brought it up, what does that even have to do with the topic, ok, so gh's lucas formula gives you perfect ph if using with ro water, what's the point? OP isn't using this formula and idk what water he's using. As for flushing with epsom salt, that's completely 100% different than what you said..you said epsom salts 'dissolve' other salts!..no they do not! That's not why they are used during flushing, the same way some people use molasses during flushing, its not because molasses dissolves other salts. I think you have alot to read up on, no offense, happy smoking!

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What are you trying to do or accomplish when you flush?
Why would you flush with molasses ?
That's insane .

So in other words, you're saying if you don't use epsom salt, then what, the salts don't get flushed out? Why use molasses during flushes...i will put it briefly as you seem a few steps behind in understanding how plants work in a growing medium like the OP is using. There are microbes in the soil, they live off what the plant gives them in sugars, among other things, that is their primary source of food. However, when the plant is near the end of its life, and feeding is stopped, the microbes are still there doing there work, except they don't get all the sugars back now as the plant prefers to hang on to them once 'fruit' is fully set and is ripening, so the molasses gives the microbes their sugar so they can keep on functioning at a high level. Now why don't you explain why using epsom salt will help flush salts out. What does magnesium sulfate do to other 'salts' in the medium that makes them 'dissolve' as you put it and gets them flushed?

Blitz35 said:

So in other words, you're saying if you don't use epsom salt, then what, the salts don't get flushed out? Why use molasses during flushes...i will put it briefly as you seem a few steps behind in understanding how plants work in a growing medium like the OP is using. There are microbes in the soil, they live off what the plant gives them in sugars, among other things, that is their primary source of food. However, when the plant is near the end of its life, and feeding is stopped, the microbes are still there doing there work, except they don't get all the sugars back now as the plant prefers to hang on to them once 'fruit' is fully set and is ripening, so the molasses gives the microbes their sugar so they can keep on functioning at a high level. Now why don't you explain why using epsom salt will help flush salts out. What does magnesium sulfate do to other 'salts' in the medium that makes them 'dissolve' as you put it and gets them flushed?

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One salt molecule attach's itself to the other helping remove it.
Simple.
Yes molasses feeds the Bennie's.
The objective when flushing is to remove excess nutrients from the medium and root zone so the plant cannot feed.
Mycos are no longer needed to dissolve nutrients so the plant can up take those nutrients. You do not want the plant to up take nutrients or carbs at this time.
What you are trying to do is get the plant to suck up already stored carbs within itself and leafs .
When this happens the plants color starts to fade just like it would in nature naturally pulling what's left of carbs and flavor into the bud .
The plant will do this automatically to try to survive to breed as long as it can.
This will give you a finish much like it would in nature.
By getting rid of excess nutrients salts the plant at the end of this cycle can not feed off them and this helps with the final finishing of the product , smoothing the taste and making it burn good with a nice Ash.
If you leave the nutrients salts in the plant /soil when it finish's it will have a harsh taste . And if fertilized to much will also burn black like tar and not smoke well .
Microbes and food or carbs are not needed at this time as the plant is going to die just as it would in nature.
The closer you can simulate what would naturally happen in nature the better the plant will be.
There is no need nor do you want a plant to be functioning at a high level at the time of it's death or near the time of it's death.