Way too many contradictions in this hobby.

singlecoiled · Jan 8, 2023

Dorian2 said:
All the weed I've grown, harvested and cured from autos has been pretty decent. I can't compare it to Photo's as I have no experience with them. The 10% ruderalis will change the potency and duration of the effects I'd assume, but considering my own personal smoking habits, it really doesn't make a big difference. Also consider, as has been suggested elsewhere, that strain, genetics, and breeder make a big difference. That really lent credence to what many in the RIU community suggest about getting better genetics. This last summer when I ordered some pepper, oregano, basil and other seeds from a suggested breeder in Quebec, I was amazed at the difference in starting them myself from seed rather than buying the pre grown stuff or seed packs at the local store.

RE: Modes, don't worry about learning that stuff but if you understand the basic concept of how they work with harmony and from where they're derived, you'll quickly become that much better at certain aspects of music, like writing and improve. Especially if you're a lead player.

BTW, your plants look fine to me.

BTW, your plants look fine to me.
[/QUOTE]

Senescence is normal late flower, but I'm not sure how bad the yellowing should get. Ive seen many grow nice and green all the way through flower and I'm still not sure. This is another tricky one in the hobby because a deficiency and senescense can happen at the same time. I'm just not sure ! Maybe its my strain, I'll try something differnt next grow, thining Master Kush, White Rhino or Blue Mystic. (I'm forced to grow low odor strain, my grow is a secret)

I got some really good bud off all of my grows though, I just think it can be much better.... I'll take some pics of my current grow tonight after caving in and feeing a full dose of Bloom Nutrients. I havent peaked in two days, I hope all hell hasnt broken out. Pics to come if interested.

xtsho · Jan 8, 2023

Boatguy · Jan 8, 2023

singlecoiled said:
Senescence is normal late flower, but I'm not sure how bad the yellowing should get. Ive seen many grow nice and green all the way through flower and I'm still not sure.

Some plants dont want to give up on trying to making seeds. Hence the foxtailing and nanners.

O0gieBO0gie · Jan 8, 2023

Somatek said:
This is not a good analogy and the data doesn't support it as if that was true the plant material would have less minerals then the control group. What the data suggests is that once senescence kicks in, nutrient uptake mostly stops as the plants start dying which is why there isn't a significant difference in weight between them. Although we don't clearly understand as these kinds of specifics around optimal crop cultivation is just starting to be studied.

What data are you referring to? As far as I understand once senescence kicks in, the plant recycles the cellular building blocks (nutes) that have been deposited in the leaves and other parts of the plant during growth. Which is why i'm saying it's pointless to add nutes after senescence kicks in. Just like it would be pointless to leave the stove on until the bacon is fully cooked. The bacon will still finish cooking even if you turn the stove off a little early. The plant will still finish out fine even if you stop feed nutes a little early. Whether nute uptake continues or not.

DeadHeadX · Jan 8, 2023

singlecoiled said:
I really enjoyed reading this, thanks for taking the time. You make some really good points.

Really, what real world experience would make you think that we would all agree on something as varied in it’s possible approaches as growing? Or even the terminology?

This is really well said, I'll have to let this digest a bit, butt I cant argue as its a good point. If you ask a person on this forum, should I water to runnoff (example, lets not did into it---) you will get this type of a response from half the people. " Never Flush, its bad for the plant---you fool" And then you''ll get this answer," Flushing is great, it takes out excess salts.". Then after youve asked the question you can sit back and watch everyone argue about it like rabid dogs. Its crazy ! So yes, there are different ways to grow, but when asking for advice as a newbie, it can be confusing...

Question: if you’ve struggled with the same variety for three grows, why not try a different strain?

I exagerate slightly and have grown one different strain, Durban Poison. I got two ounces of really good bud off that grow, but things did get rough for me after week 6 flower (my curse) with yellowing of the leaves that seems to be more than normal yellowing late flower. (Senescence). My problem is late flower.

I think some of the online/YouTube sources of info are super helpful

Yes, I use youtube good stuff, but what they say on those channels can be very different from what people say here.

You mentioned it might be just as economical to simply buy the stuff from the store.

I dont smoke a lot, very little less than .5 grams a day. I'm growing in a hidden cabinet (I have a thread in the stealth/cabinet section here--with my current grow) and nobody in my house knows I'm growing. unfortuanatly no big tent or lights for me yet ! But one plant is producing way more weed then I can smoke, its piling up and some of my herbs have been curing over a year !

Last grow, Im smoking now !

singlecoiled said:
Love it man, its really simple stuff but the way music is lined up its a bit "foreign" and odd to learn if that makes sense. The best way to understand modes is simply to play the Major Scale (Whole Step= WS Half Step=HS) ( WS WS HS WS WS WS HS) on a single string. Lets use F as an Example. If you start the F major scale on G and end on G, thats Dorian Minor. (WS HS WS WS WS HS WS WS)... Its that simple. (this is how I try to show it, way too many guitarists dont get this). Go up the F major scale and start on A and end on A, thats Phrygian. Thats all there is to it ! I know you know this stuff, but I'm having fun typing it... too many guitarist poo poo on the major scale but little do they know, its everything in music. (not everything but you get my point) Dont get me started on Pentatonic. Another great tool that too many guitartists poo poo on and act like its for beginners, Guess what, its not! Pentatonic is a great tool used by the best of the best musicians.

Anyway, good stuff man. These are really great examples.

I‘m pretty much self taught and do not know many scales beyond pentatonic and major scales. Started a bit later than most, though I played piano for quite a bit before taking up guitar, which I think helped. I play in a band that does mainly covers, a few originals, but - give the people what they want. I‘ve found it an interesting challenge really trying to break down a song when creating our take on songs. I’ve got good rhythm and know lots of chords, but my technical knowledge is limited. But to carry on the metaphor of growing, while I know some people are infinitely better, I still get tremendous personal pleasure from the instrument.

Autos. This is surely another topic that can be debated endlessly, and I really don’t have the experience, but my sense/reading is that auto genetics have come a long way. The plants I have been growing are all 20%+ thc, at least in their adverts. The healthy plant I harvested is quite potent and pleasing. Not scientific, I know, but that’s the reflection of someone with over four decades of trying all qualities of weed. Man, we used to get some crap sometimes. This really is a golden age. My less healthy plants have also had less potent harvests. I think this is an important consideration. Even if photos are more potent, that relies on optimum growing conditions and skills. If the auto is easier to keep healthy, then you’ll likely get better buds regardless, at least if your photo grows have been imperfect. I’d say it’s worth a try, especially in your smaller space, as the autos are inherently much smaller plants, and you can keep them pretty low lying with a little training. The plant that yielded four ounces was no more than two feet tall.

singlecoiled · Jan 8, 2023

DeadHeadX said:
I‘m pretty much self taught and do not know many scales beyond pentatonic and major scales. Started a bit later than most, though I played piano for quite a bit before taking up guitar, which I think helped. I play in a band that does mainly covers, a few originals, but - give the people what they want. I‘ve found it an interesting challenge really trying to break down a song when creating our own covers. I’ve got good rhythm and know lots of chords, but my technical knowledge is limited. But to carry on the metaphor of growing, while I know some people are infinitely better, I still get tremendous personal pleasure from the instrument.

Autos. This is surely another topic that can be debated endlessly, and I really don’t have the experience, but my sense/reading is that auto genetics have come a long way. The plants I have been growing are all 20%+ thc, at least in their adverts. The healthy plant I harvested is quite potent and pleasing. Not scientific, I know, but that’s the reflection of someone with over four decades of trying all qualities of weed. Man, we used to get some crap sometimes. This really is a golden age. My less healthy plants have also had less potent harvests. I think this is an important consideration. Even if photos are more potent, that relies on optimum growing conditions and skills. If the auto is easier to keep healthy, then you’ll likely get better buds regardless, at least if your photo grows have been imperfect. I’d say it’s worth a try, especially in your smaller space, as the autos are inherently much smaller plants, and you can keep them pretty low lying with a little training. The plant that yielded four ounces was no more than two feed tall.

Funny, but I met a fellow grower at a garden center and he just gave me a quarter of Northern Lights Auto to sample. He watched my grows(and got free samples from me) and decided to grow Durban Poison Auto and Northern Lights Auto.. I've been meaning to sample it to compare to my Photoperiod NL, maybe tonight.

I kinda like to choose the time to flip so that my plant fits my small cabinet. I think your right, any loss of THC going to an auto (if any) probably isnt a big deal and anyting over 15% is fine for me. BUT, I'm an old timer and am enjoying growing the classics as they are. My taste in weed is really boring, Durban Poison,. Nothern Lights, Lambs Breath, Acupulco gold, etc... These old time strains have my interest and I like them as pure as they can be. I might be silly, but ruderalis has to change the characteristics a bit from the original strain. Just a preference thing and just like with the guitar, I like it pure and old school. I use zero digital with my music, None. All of my pedals are analog, my amps are all tube based and I actually use a cable to connect to my guitar. Just me, I'm silly this way.

singlecoiled · Jan 8, 2023

Joe.Grow said:
No reason to overcomplicate this.
I use a very affordable and simple coco feeding chart. Rest isn’t rocket science, we’re growing a damn weed here.

View attachment 5246325

Epson salts have been on my shopping list, I think I need some of that for Mag? I purchased Dolomite Lime but many say the ratios of Calcium to Mag arent good so I applied lightly when mixing my soil and am afraid to use it now.

Thanks for the chart, I'm saving all this stuff ----I really appreciate it.

lusidghost · Jan 8, 2023

Coldnasty · Jan 8, 2023

singlecoiled said:
Epson salts have been on my shopping list, I think I need some of that for Mag? I purchased Dolomite Lime but many say the ratios of Calcium to Mag arent good so I applied lightly when mixing my soil and am afraid to use it now.

Thanks for the chart, I'm saving all this stuff ----I really appreciate it.

I guess this thread represents what you were speaking of well lol

BongerChonger · Jan 8, 2023

singlecoiled said:
As a new grower who takes new hobbies way too seriously, I am left scratching my head. I am a big reader, and have read just about every grow book published, both old and new. Examples https://cannabislegale.org/these-are-the-5-best-cannabis-growing-books/

I have also watched many youtube videos showing grows and offering advice on growing.

Here are some topics that I find very frustrating, both from advice give on forums and from the grow books.

5. Soil PH---- This is by far the worst for me as it is very important to have the right PH in the root zone, but to save my life I have now way to test it accurately. Have you ever tried to get deep into your soil to test after the roots have taken over the soil? You can't ! The best I can do is to measure water PH going in to compare to the water coming out, but I don't think this is accurate at all. There has to be an easier way to accurately measure soil PH in the root zone. Soil is really starting to annoy me and I'm tempted to go hydroponic even though I know there is a deep learning curve.

I like growing, but with the price of weed dropping (its almost free where I live now) I'm wondering why I'm bothering anymore. I just cant seem to find good advice that doesnt contradict itself and feel like a dog chasing my tail.

I can relate to your own experiences trying to find information on Cannabis forums. I've come to find forums are great for keeping up with what's new in the hobby. And can be good for specifics, like equipment etc.
But I've always found the general advice given, to not be very generalized at all. When I think it's general advice that newcomers to the hobby need. So they can implement said advice into their own grow, regardless of grow setup.
I've personally found general gardening and horticultural information to be so much more reliable.

Soil pH is actually a good example.
Because besides your amendments and inputs of your soil. (parent materials) It actually has much more to do with the aeration and porosity of your soil.
It's the accumulation of Hydrogen ions in your soil, that causes pH to drop. You've probably heard before that overwatering can cause soil acidity. It indeed can.
Stagnant water is the cause. That's where aeration, porosity and drainage become so important, because it's those voids and pockets of space that holds air.
And that's another topic which I believe is glossed over far too much on Canna forums. The importance of soil environment in relation to Aerobic and Anaerobic bacteria. We're trying to "cultivate" an Aerobic soil environment.
So many growers only look at what's above and think their environment's in check, when it isn't.

I do think seeking out general gardening and hort. information is a better approach, when seeking growing advice. Plants really are mostly the same thing.
A book on organic vegetable gardening would aid a new grower to the hobby, much better in my opinion.
Because the advice will be very general, but factual. And you can easily apply it to your own situation.
Knowing composting is extremely useful to know too.

I'd just treat it as a hobby. Hobbies can always change.

GL.

p.s- fwiw Anaerobic translates to "without air".

singlecoiled · Jan 8, 2023

lusidghost said:

Never liked Nirvana that much, I just dont get it.... But to each his own. The music is repetitive--- I cant stand repetetive music. ("ALL we are is all we are" for 10 minutes makes me want to jump out of my car at high speed)

Most folks that dont learn music theory (or at least basic music theory) dont go very far with music. They are too lazy to learn extremely important music basics and mainly regurgitate music already written. I have a feeling its the same with growers... There are those that put the effort in to learn important skills, and those that dont. The ones that dont are usually the "followers" that just follow everyone around blindly. Hey, it can work, no offense to those that want an easy ride. But thats not my style.

lusidghost · Jan 8, 2023

singlecoiled said:
Never liked Nirvana that much, I just dont get it.... But to each his own. The music is repetitive--- I cant stand repetetive music. ("ALL we are is all we are" for 10 minutes makes me want to jump out of my car at high speed)

Most folks that dont learn music theory (or at least basic music theory) dont go very far with music. They are too lazy to learn extremely important music basics. I have a feeling its the same with growers... There are those that put the effort in to learn important skills, and those that dont. The ones that dont are usually the "followers" that just follow everyone around blindly. Hey, it can work, no offense to those that want an easy ride. But thats not my style.

To be honest it's just funny to hear him completely trash theory and even improving as a player. He said he doesn't know the difference between major and minor chords. That's hilarious.

singlecoiled · Jan 8, 2023

BongerChonger said:
I can relate to your own experiences trying to find information on Cannabis forums. I've come to find forums are great for keeping up with what's new in the hobby. And can be good for specifics, like equipment etc.
But I've always found the general advice given, to not be very generalized at all. When I think it's general advice that newcomers to the hobby need. So they can implement said advice into their own grow, regardless of grow setup.
I've personally found general gardening and horticultural information to be so much more reliable.

Soil pH is actually a good example.
Because besides your amendments and inputs of your soil. (parent materials) It actually has much more to do with the aeration and porosity of your soil.
It's the accumulation of Hydrogen ions in your soil, that causes pH to drop. You've probably heard before that overwatering can cause soil acidity. It indeed can.
Stagnant water is the cause. That's where aeration, porosity and drainage become so important, because it's those voids and pockets of space that holds air.
And that's another topic which I believe is glossed over far too much on Canna forums. The importance of soil environment in relation to Aerobic and Anaerobic bacteria. We're trying to "cultivate" an Aerobic soil environment.
So many growers only look at what's above and think their environment's in check, when it isn't.

I do think seeking out general gardening and hort. information is a better approach, when seeking growing advice. Plants really are mostly the same thing.
A book on organic vegetable gardening would aid a new grower to the hobby, much better in my opinion.
Because the advice will be very general, but factual. And you can easily apply it to your own situation.
Knowing composting is extremely useful to know too.

I'd just treat it as a hobby. Hobbies can always change.

GL.

p.s- fwiw Anaerobic translates to "without air".

Man !!!!!!! So, air to the soil is something that I've had my interest in for quite some time. I really think my plants would be doing better if I can get more air to the roots, I think they may be choking/drowning. In fact, I was considering running tubes with holes right up through my soil to see it I can get a little more air to the center of the pot. (I can run a fan down the tube). Anyway, just an idea i was toying with, but I understand what your saying about aeration. I went with more perlite and an Airpot this grow hoping to keep my plant breathing well. I'm not really sure if the soil is compacting or if my roots are suffocating. Wlll examining the roots at the end of my grow give me any clues?

There is even a system that someone came up with that blows air up many plastic tubes directly into the soil. I'm not sure if this is just a gimick, but it has my curiosity. It would be a soil/hydroponic hybrid grow if you use soil and some type of air pump?

PadawanWarrior · Jan 8, 2023

singlecoiled said:
Man !!!!!!! So, air to the soil is something that I've had my interest in for quite some time. I really think my plants would be doing better if I can get more air to the roots, I think they may be choking/drowning. In fact, I was considering running tubes with holes right up through my soil to see it I can get a little more air to the center of the pot. (I can run a fan down the tube). Anyway, just an idea i was toying with, but I understand what your saying about aeration. I went with more perlite and an Airpot this grow hoping to keep my plant breathing well. I'm not really sure if the soil is compacting or if my roots are suffocating. Wlll examining the roots at the end of my grow give me any clues?

There is even a system that someone came up with that blows air up many plastic tubes directly into the soil. I'm not sure if this is just a gimick, but it has my curiosity. It would be a soil/hydroponic hybrid grow if you use soil and some type of air pump?

Just add perlite, pumic, or something. You're over complicating things.

lusidghost · Jan 8, 2023

@Autofire

Dorian2 · Jan 8, 2023

singlecoiled said:
BTW, your plants look fine to me.

Senescence is normal late flower, but I'm not sure how bad the yellowing should get. Ive seen many grow nice and green all the way through flower and I'm still not sure. This is another tricky one in the hobby because a deficiency and senescense can happen at the same time. I'm just not sure ! Maybe its my strain, I'll try something differnt next grow, thining Master Kush, White Rhino or Blue Mystic. (I'm forced to grow low odor strain, my grow is a secret)

I got some really good bud off all of my grows though, I just think it can be much better.... I'll take some pics of my current grow tonight after caving in and feeing a full dose of Bloom Nutrients. I havent peaked in two days, I hope all hell hasnt broken out. Pics to come if interested.
[/QUOTE]

I had senescence on a couple of lower leaves this grow throughout the entire grow. From what I understand it's possible if there isn't a lot, or any, light getting to the specific area. Seems that the plants will use the leaf lacking light to its own benefit. I think I got that info from a comment I saw here on RIU.

Dorian2 · Jan 8, 2023

lusidghost said:

That's a big ol' can of worms. Some people are just naturally gifted in their musical brilliance. No issues here with that musical construct at all.

Yes, I called Cobain brilliant.

DeadHeadX · Jan 8, 2023

singlecoiled said:
Never liked Nirvana that much, I just dont get it.... But to each his own. The music is repetitive--- I cant stand repetetive music. ("ALL we are is all we are" for 10 minutes makes me want to jump out of my car at high speed)

Most folks that dont learn music theory (or at least basic music theory) dont go very far with music. They are too lazy to learn extremely important music basics and mainly regurgitate music already written. I have a feeling its the same with growers... There are those that put the effort in to learn important skills, and those that dont. The ones that dont are usually the "followers" that just follow everyone around blindly. Hey, it can work, no offense to those that want an easy ride. But thats not my style.

hey man, I love digging into and trying to understand this stuff. Of course, as your thread title suggests, there’s a lot of info and much of it seemingly contradictory. As most say, it’s a learn from experience type of thing.

But as far as being a “follower”, I’m not looking to make any new discoveries or break new ground as a grower, just figure out my personal approach to growing good herb. Like with music, I love to make it my own.

Getting too technical with music (or any other art) can also turn one into a “follower”. I work hard at the guitar, even if I can’t rattle off, nor desire to, the various scale modes. I can’t even tell you the individual notes on the neck, though I can flat pick pretty well. Some of the best players couldn’t tell you anything about the technical stuff. Followers? But I hear you, not trying to be a jerk. Just bristled as a committed guitarist that isn’t attracted to the scholarly stuff. It’s always essentially been a folk instrument in my approach and appreciation.

singlecoiled · Jan 8, 2023

PadawanWarrior said:
Just add perlite, pumic, or something. You're over complicating things.

Yep. added perlite this grow to an airpot and the drainage is a little too good. Next grow, I may try rice hulls or a lighter soil like light warrior mixed with happy frog. Its funny because I was just talking to the manager of a garden shop and we were talking about how important it is for the soil to breath.

I wont be running tubes or air pumps into my soil, but I find the idea interesting....

singlecoiled · Jan 8, 2023

DeadHeadX said:
hey man, I love digging into and trying to understand this stuff. Of course, as your thread title suggests, there’s a lot of info and much of it seemingly contradictory. As most say, it’s a learn from experience type of thing.

But as far as being a “follower”, I’m not looking to make any new discoveries or break new ground as a grower, just figure out my personal approach to growing good herb. Like with music, I love to make it my own.

Getting too technical with music (or any other art) can also turn one into a “follower”. I work hard at the guitar, even if I can’t rattle off, nor desire to, the various scale modes. I can’t even tell you the individual notes on the neck, though I can flat pick pretty well. Some of the best players couldn’t tell you anything about the technical stuff. Followers? But I hear you, not trying to be a jerk. Just bristled as a committed guitarist that isn’t attracted to the scholarly stuff. It’s always essentially been a folk instrument in my approach and appreciation.

Getting too technical with music (or any other art) can also turn one into a “follower”.

YES ! I'm glad I'm here, seems to be some pretty cool people. (for the most part). I love your reply and cant argue with you, you are totally right. This gets way too deep for this forum though (its not a music forum)... Good stuff !

I still say learning your basic music theory is important though, but we'll leave that alone. I cant tell you how many guitarists I try to jam with that have no idea how to play in a key. Unless you know the same song they do, your stuck. Sure this can be great for covers, but its so fun to just Jam in a key.

Hey lets jam a I IV V in B Minor...... (most guitarists will say HUH?) But any true musician will know this without thinking,

Way too many contradictions in this hobby.

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