Way too many contradictions in this hobby.

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pegboy

pegboy

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singlecoiled said:
As a new grower who takes new hobbies way too seriously, I am left scratching my head. I am a big reader, and have read just about every grow book published, both old and new. Examples https://cannabislegale.org/these-are-the-5-best-cannabis-growing-books/

I have also watched many youtube videos showing grows and offering advice on growing.

Here are some topics that I find very frustrating, both from advice give on forums and from the grow books.

1. Flower time----Countless professional grow videos show MOST cannabis finishing at around week 8-9 (including pre flower time-- we are talking 8-9 weeks after 12/12 flip and they harvest.) If you ask around here, chances are no matter what you say (Lets say I'm in week 9 Flower with an Indica) almost 90% of people will say " You have many weeks to go)... I understand that Seedbanks may be dishonest with flower times, but for a newbie, all the mis-information I can find is conficting. And yes, I let a 7-9 week Indica go many weeks longer following advice from others and it was harvested a bit late....(watching tricomes and pistols with a loupe)

2. Bloom Nutrients-- And or Nitrogen during flower. This one is really giving me a headache, most say to cut nitrogen mid to late flower, but many also say that Bloom Nutrients cause more harm than good. So, I'm pretty much F'ed here. If I cant feed bloom and cant feed Nitrogen (grow nutrients-in flower) what the hell should I feed? I'm at the point where I'm starving my plants because I'm afriad to give them anything.

3. Flushing before harvest---- This is a funny one. In this case, I'm talking about the final flush before harvest. Almost every book I read and following the advice from many professional growers, the taste of the final product will be lower quality if not flushed. And of course, if you've been reading recent advice from folks on the forums,many people are saying not to flush. Another confict leaving me wondering. (I do not flush pre-harvest, but I still wonder who's right)

4. Flushing----- Now, not to complicate things, but the definition of "flushing" seems to be two different things. Definiton 1 is applying plain water 1-2 weeks before harvest. Definition 2 is to flush excess salts from the soil using twice the amount of water to soil. If you look at many feedcharts (Fox Farm as an example) they clearly say to Flush the soil (definition 2) if anything irregular shows----- So, once again we have contradictory opinions here. I cant tell you how many people say not to flush the soil (def 2) and how many say that pre harvest flush is useless.

5. Soil PH---- This is by far the worst for me as it is very important to have the right PH in the root zone, but to save my life I have now way to test it accurately. Have you ever tried to get deep into your soil to test after the roots have taken over the soil? You can't ! The best I can do is to measure water PH going in to compare to the water coming out, but I don't think this is accurate at all. There has to be an easier way to accurately measure soil PH in the root zone. Soil is really starting to annoy me and I'm tempted to go hydroponic even though I know there is a deep learning curve.

6. And last but not least, too many things look alike. Fungus Gnats or Root Aphid flyers? (they look very similar and are very small)... Same goes for deficiencies, lets take purple stems as an example.---Could be a deficiency, might just be the strain. Its just a big headache to me now.

I like growing, but with the price of weed dropping (its almost free where I live now) I'm wondering why I'm bothering anymore. I just cant seem to find good advice that doesnt contradict itself and feel like a dog chasing my tail.


(Side note: please excuse my horrible hacking of the english language, some of the words used here may be off and I am aware that my writing needs improvent !)
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These are just my opinions. Take em or leave em. ha

1) Flowering window is a matter of weeks and not days. A week one way or the other means nothing imo. Theres way too much emphasis on the perfect day. Some I've brought in below suggested times and some a bit longer. If you follow the recomended times you don't usually go wrong. There are other factors that go into when the plant is done however. Conditions being one...

2) Many a cannabis grows have been brought to harvest with only one and sometimes no fertilizers. The internet has to write about something and thats what they do. I personally use "Grow" and "Bloom" for my grows and everything is just fine. All the other additives are static and selling points. Again just my .02 cents.

3) Flushing is bro-science. Until I see different I wont be flushing. In fact there are studies out there that suggest it does nothing. To each his own.

4) Flushing for the sake of clearing out salt build up. Is legitimate technique because frankly many people over do it on the salts and it definitely can and will help in those situations. I grow ebb and flow and rockwool hydro so flushing excess salt build up is almost manditory. water dries out and leaves excess salts.

5) Soil PH. Unfortunately the best way is to measure run off. No real debate there. Just try not to over fertilize.

6) Bugs and deficiencies. You are correct. Sometimes its very difficult to distinguish whats going on with you sick plants. Best advise is to start low with the salts and move up rather than going big and overfeeding. overfeeding is much harder to get under control than under feeding. Tip: About 99% of internet advice is wrong. Theres no way for the "experts" to know whats going on with just a few pictures. Theres way to much to convey whats going on with just a small post and a picture.

HOWEVER. With time and experience you get better at analysing all of the points above. Take the pressure off of yourself and just let the plant grow. Chances are everything will turn out fine in the end. Enjoy the process and have fun. Thats the real key to growing. With a little experience you'll be growing some fire bud!! Good luck!!
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

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singlecoiled said:
This is exaclty what pisses me off. Its not that your wrong, its just that half the people say what your saying and half say that flower starts at 12/12... Come on people we need to get on the same page !!!!! It's a f-ing opinion, not fact as to when flower starts. I say use the start from 12/12 as a timer as its easier than starting the countdown after flowers show ( 2.5 weeks or so) This would avoid much confusion and simpolify the language for everyone to understand...
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The idea that flower starts at the flip of the lights makes no sense. Some grow 12/12 from seed and they arent ready at 8 weeks or whatever was advertised. If your plant isnt mature it wont start flowering till it is
 
singlecoiled

singlecoiled

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Boatguy said:
The idea that flower starts at the flip of the lights makes no sense. Some grow 12/12 from seed and they arent ready at 8 weeks or whatever was advertised. If your plant isnt mature it wont start flowering till it is
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I get what your saying, the problem is the language. When a breeder says 7-9 weeks flower, does this mean 7-9 weeks plus the 2-3 week pre flower time ? There was a guy somewhere that wrote to the big seedbanks asking when they started the countdown to flower.. GUESS WHAT, Half of the seedbanks replied " We start the clock at 12/12, the other half at first sign of flower. Really F ing great.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

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singlecoiled said:
I get what your saying, the problem is the language. When a breeder says 7-9 weeks flower, does this mean 7-9 weeks plus the 2-3 week pre flower time ? There was a guy somewhere that wrote to the big seedbanks asking when they started the countdown to flower.. GUESS WHAT, Half of the seedbanks replied " We start the clock at 12/12, the other half at first sign of flower. Really F ing great.
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I hear ya.
Im growing my first clone right now that was advertised as 8 weeks. Preflower stretch lasted a full 2 weeks.
It is annoying
 
pegboy

pegboy

Well-Known Member
singlecoiled said:
This is exaclty what pisses me off. Its not that your wrong, its just that half the people say what your saying and half say that flower starts at 12/12... Come on people we need to get on the same page !!!!! It's a f-ing opinion, not fact as to when flower starts. I say use the start from 12/12 as a timer as its easier than starting the countdown after flowers show ( 2.5 weeks or so) This would avoid much confusion and simplify the language for everyone to understand...

So the way it is now, when someone says they've been in flower for 8 weeks, this means it could be 8-11 weeks from 12/12... Thats really great... You cant tell what someone is saying...
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Couldn't agree more. "Flip" is a hard date and should be the standard. I've seen people on the interweb in 6 weeks of flower that are claiming 3 and have to laugh.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

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pegboy said:
Couldn't agree more. "Flip" is a hard date and should be the standard. I've seen people on the interweb in 6 weeks of flower that are claiming 3 and have to laugh.
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True 12/12 to harvest numbers dont sell beans. Short flower estimates do.
I have had very few plants done after 10 weeks, most go 12 or more
 
B

beefninja97

Active Member
singlecoiled said:
I get what your saying, the problem is the language. When a breeder says 7-9 weeks flower, does this mean 7-9 weeks plus the 2-3 week pre flower time ? There was a guy somewhere that wrote to the big seedbanks asking when they started the countdown to flower.. GUESS WHAT, Half of the seedbanks replied " We start the clock at 12/12, the other half at first sign of flower. Really F ing great.
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start the clock whenever you want, the estimates the breeders use are just lies. there may be a discernment to be made between intiating 12/12 lighting schedule and when the plant begins to produce flowers, but it's not going to clarify the discrepancy between breeder estimates and how long the plant actually takes because the estimate was always a lie.

one way to get an idea of how long the flowering will take is to look at the lineage. you can also look at journals that actually completed the plant to ripeness (if you can find one).

I think it's probably pretty close to true that if you want anything worth smoking it'll be 10+ weeks in 12/12 most of the time.
 
pegboy

pegboy

Well-Known Member
Boatguy said:
The idea that flower starts at the flip of the lights makes no sense. Some grow 12/12 from seed and they arent ready at 8 weeks or whatever was advertised. If your plant isnt mature it wont start flowering till it is
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So when exacly then do we call a plant mature? I rarely (if ever) flip a plant further than 5 or 6 weeks from germination. What state of maturaty would that be? Seems even more confusing to me.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

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pegboy said:
So when exacly then do we call a plant mature? I rarely (if ever) flip a plant further than 5 or 6 weeks from germination. What state of maturaty would that be? Seems even more confusing to me.
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When i see pistils or balls. Without flipping to 12/12 usually 8 weeks.
Have had a few that didnt show until the flip. Alternating nodes is a good sign of maturity as well
 
pegboy

pegboy

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beefninja97 said:
start the clock whenever you want, the estimates the breeders use are just lies. there may be a discernment to be made between intiating 12/12 lighting schedule and when the plant begins to produce flowers, but it's not going to clarify the discrepancy between breeder estimates and how long the plant actually takes because the estimate was always a lie.

one way to get an idea of how long the flowering will take is to look at the lineage. you can also look at journals that actually completed the plant to ripeness (if you can find one).

I think it's probably pretty close to true that if you want anything worth smoking it'll be 10+ weeks in 12/12 most of the time.
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Well........sometimes. I can tell you with my last grow Dos-si-dos 33 from barneys farm I brought them home in around 50 days. Barnys were suggesting 60-65 days. And mine were 50 days from flip. Sometimes they are long on the suggestion.
 
B

beefninja97

Active Member
pegboy said:
Well........sometimes. I can tell you with my last grow Dos-si-dos 33 from barneys farm I brought them home in around 50 days. Barnys were suggesting 60-65 days. And mine were 50 days from flip. Sometimes they are long on the suggestion.
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pics of harvest?

I'm running a barney's farm gorilla zkittlez and I'm just entering week 13 looking like it will be 14. estimate was 8-9 weeks from them.
 
singlecoiled

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
Boatguy said:
I hear ya.
Im growing my first clone right now that was advertised as 8 weeks. Preflower stretch lasted a full 2 weeks.
It is annoying
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Yep, around 2.5 weeks for me on all my grows, the problem is that everone is speaking a different language.

For me, I expect to be on the end of the recomemdations, so if a seedbanks says 7-9 weeks, I go a full 9 weeks (and add a week or two if needed) this is because I dont know if th
beefninja97 said:
start the clock whenever you want, the estimates the breeders use are just lies. there may be a discernment to be made between intiating 12/12 lighting schedule and when the plant begins to produce flowers, but it's not going to clarify the discrepancy between breeder estimates and how long the plant actually takes because the estimate was always a lie.

one way to get an idea of how long the flowering will take is to look at the lineage. you can also look at journals that actually completed the plant to ripeness (if you can find one).

I think it's probably pretty close to true that if you want anything worth smoking it'll be 10+ weeks in 12/12 most of the time.
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Sigh, I didnt want this thread to dig too deeply into the flower times. I was using this as an example to show how far people are off on many topics. We need to come together to simplify things, its pretty silly as it is now.

Not sure if you saw my earlier post, but there was a guy that emailed a large number of major seedbanks. The responses he got where mixed, just like the forums. 1/2 the seedbanks start from 12/12 the other from first signs of buds. It's really silly to have to figure this stuff out.
 
Coldnasty

Coldnasty

Well-Known Member
singlecoiled said:
Yep, around 2.5 weeks for me on all my grows, the problem is that everone is speaking a different language.

For me, I expect to be on the end of the recomemdations, so if a seedbanks says 7-9 weeks, I go a full 9 weeks (and add a week or two if needed) this is because I dont know if th


Sigh, I didnt want this thread to dig too deeply into the flower times. I was using this as an example to show how far people are off on many topics. We need to come together to simplify things, its pretty silly as it is now.

Not sure if you saw my earlier post, but there was a guy that emailed a large number of major seedbanks. The responses he got where mixed, just like the forums. 1/2 the seedbanks start from 12/12 the other from first signs of buds. It's really silly to have to figure this stuff out.
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That’s why experience is the best teacher
 
obijohn

obijohn

Well-Known Member
singlecoiled said:
This is exaclty what pisses me off. Its not that your wrong, its just that half the people say what your saying and half say that flower starts at 12/12... Come on people we need to get on the same page !!!!! It's a f-ing opinion, not fact as to when flower starts. I say use the start from 12/12 as a timer as its easier than starting the countdown after flowers show ( 2.5 weeks or so) This would avoid much confusion and simplify the language for everyone to understand...

So the way it is now, when someone says they've been in flower for 8 weeks, this means it could be 8-11 weeks from 12/12... Thats really great... You cant tell what someone is saying...
Click to expand...
singlecoiled said:
I get what your saying, the problem is the language. When a breeder says 7-9 weeks flower, does this mean 7-9 weeks plus the 2-3 week pre flower time ? There was a guy somewhere that wrote to the big seedbanks asking when they started the countdown to flower.. GUESS WHAT, Half of the seedbanks replied " We start the clock at 12/12, the other half at first sign of flower. Really F ing great.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind many people grow outdoors, not indoors. Outdoors plants don't wait until 12 hours of darkness to start flowering, so 12/12 is meaningless. The flowering starts when it starts
 
singlecoiled

singlecoiled

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