Wax, Keif, Bubble, Melt, Shatter, Concentrates, BHO...

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Oh, and the stone or marble you use is for temperature ballast?
There is no convection in a vacuum oven, only radiant and conduction.

By preheating the stones, you have immediate heat transfer by conduction when you place the patties on the stone shelves.

Works great in a steady state system, but has reverse hysteresis when you try to suddenly raise or lower the temperature.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Yes, I know about that part. Eating it requires de-carb.

I guess making shatter is more of a commercial intent, since it all de-carbs in the bowl when heat is applies.

Shatter looks, smells and tastes more appealing, is all?
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
There is no convection in a vacuum oven, only radiant and conduction.

By preheating the stones, you have immediate heat transfer by conduction when you place the patties on the stone shelves.

Works great in a steady state system, but has reverse hysteresis when you try to suddenly raise or lower the temperature.
An. No convection. Pre-heated Stone. I see. In vacuum, no convention.

Got it! Thanks.
 

god1

Well-Known Member
There is no convection in a vacuum oven, only radiant and conduction.

By preheating the stones, you have immediate heat transfer by conduction when you place the patties on the stone shelves.

Works great in a steady state system, but has reverse hysteresis when you try to suddenly raise or lower the temperature.

So these ovens don't have build in sources on the shelves?

Why would anybody buy a vacuum oven like that?
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
So these ovens don't have build in sources on the shelves?

Why would anybody buy a vacuum oven like that?
So, you know about better ones? How much do those cost?
 
Last edited:

god1

Well-Known Member
So, you know about better ones? How much do those cost?
For this application, I have no idea what’s out there in terms of a consumer market. But if it's a decent size chamber, with multiple shelves and no independent thermal control, I'm not sure I'd purchase it. I guess it all depends on what you need for a tolerance spec., and how well the chamber controller is spec'd..

My experience was in a lab environment where precise heat and pressure control were required. Specifically, out gassing of military parts were being evaluated about a set point, and shelf temp had to be set with a tolerance about the set point spec. We kept having problems because technicians didn't understand the concept of thermal time constants.

Sounds to me like Fade is talking about a converted environmental chambers or something where the thermal path/control isn't very good. I can’t imagine having to preheat a thermal sink every time you want to use the thing and then how do you control it about a set point without an active bidirectional source? Imagine, you heated the stone, the thing is way too hot, you have no way to bring it back quickly because the thermal time constant is too damn long. I bet he’s got a mental algorithm and he heats the stone close enough that he doesn't fuss with it. He’s a pretty clever guy.

For what I do, a thermal oven is way over kill, I’m not a big volume guy;

However a vacuum oven project would have merits all on its own. Doer, you like building stuff, you program the arduino; sounds like a good excuse to buy a tig welder and plasma cutter!

This will be good experience for you, because if you start welding you’ll eventually require a thermal chamber for heat treating and the machine shop you’ll eventually acquire.

Good luck.
 

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
Works great in a steady state system, but has reverse hysteresis when you try to suddenly raise or lower the temperature.
Well put.

Analog = large dead band

Fuzzy = hysteresis

Chucking hot rocks, or any foreign heat source in a fuzzy logic controlled oven will cause it's predictive abilities to go haywire.
 

god1

Well-Known Member
Well put.

Analog = large dead band

Fuzzy = hysteresis

Chucking hot rocks, or any foreign heat source in a fuzzy logic controlled oven will cause it's predictive abilities to go haywire.

I don't know about definitions in fuzzy logic, but from a control system stand point dead band and hysteresis don't describe the same action.
The point is, using a heated stone and unidirectional controller, it's very easy to bust the loop. For example, consider a bang-bang system where the set point is below the temp of the stone; the system will essentially run open loop until the stone loses enough energy where the controller can recover. That's not really the definition of hysteresis.

The stone presents a thermal load with a time constant that may or may not be out of the range of the controller.
 

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
Fuzzy logic trys to be predictive based on learned patterns.

Chucking a random unaccountable variable in the mix will wreck the algorithm.
 
Top