Water or Amendments, what to do next

Ecompost

Well-Known Member
Alfalfa meal has some interesting uses as a phytohormone, or more specifically a compound in Alfalfa called Triacontanol. Best used in vegetative growth periods best I can tell.

If that original mix is what you’ve been using, just stick with it, amending it slowly with that multi-meal you just described.
I wouldnt use the BAS system above unless they can tell me the direct consequences of adding this to my pots on the actual biome at whatever part of growth cycle, and or which group is best to be promoted depending on the timings. Its a nonsesne thing by the looks of it.
EG as you have pointed out here, you would not use Alfalfa in bloom. Equally i would not add a Chitin based product past week 3/ day 21 bloom, so the Crab meal shit would be gone as well. I could go on about this silly mix which looks like it should be added to a compost pile and left for years to settle down or perhaps pre fermented to assist its application
If no one is going to spend the time to learn about growth markers, then there will always be errors and weaker harvests. Professional horticulturalists dont piss about with week 1 week 2 guides because although this community seems to love them, they make no biological or economic sense. Added... Volatilizing organics are like huge dinner bells for many cannabis pests
 

Ecompost

Well-Known Member
Alfalfa meal has some interesting uses as a phytohormone, or more specifically a compound in Alfalfa called Triacontanol. Best used in vegetative growth periods best I can tell.

If that original mix is what you’ve been using, just stick with it, amending it slowly with that multi-meal you just described.
to firm up your idea, The compound in Alfalfa favors groups of bacteria that increases rates of X proteins (say ADH-1) known to inhibit other Y proteins (say ETR-1). That is to say it will lead to a disruption in relevant growth cycle triggers, in bloom specifically, so delaying or causing premature PCD, poor harvest, poor taste and so on.
Because people have expressed a projection that they dont care about details, just results, they dont get the right information. Just look at how Vaccines are promoted as an example, I mean who needs data when we have doctors right?
 

JayBio420

Well-Known Member
Lowering N during bloom is a standard practice across the board in Ag, it is domestic users and people who own lawns using the most N every year. In fact up to 1/3 more than the entire US ag sector per year according to latest research.

Maintaining micros and K are useful for sure, as would be keeping up the carbohydrates in bloom. But people dont need to grow leaves in bloom, they need to set fruit and increase sugars and minerals value. Lowered N bloom feeds should be a rule this community practices because we are contributing to excessive N waste, even Organic growers. I refer you to the first dust bowl, an event caused by organic farmers.....
I really appreciate your informative posts!

The dust bowl can be attributed to farming practices for sure, but that’s neither here nor there for indoor and small scale growers.

Also, N is reduced my the AG industry because they chemically feed often, and want to save money.

Organic farmers of Cannabis can often reuse their rich organic soils, so the reduction of N is not anywhere near as pronounced. These crops can be extremely tasty product. That’s why I reccomended using an N rich amendment for organic soils. Not too much, just enough to keep things happy.

As for the compost and microbiology, that is a huge topic to get into. In short, the plant will only take what it needs and a little extra variety in additives, when not overdone, isn’t the end of the world. You don’t need to know 100% how organic decomposition works to utilize it, that’s just silly and esoteric.
 
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newgrow16

Well-Known Member
Lowering N during bloom is a standard practice across the board in Ag, it is domestic users and people who own lawns using the most N every year. In fact up to 1/3 more than the entire US ag sector per year according to latest research.

Maintaining micros and K are useful for sure, as would be keeping up the carbohydrates in bloom. But people dont need to grow leaves in bloom, they need to set fruit and increase sugars and minerals value. Lowered N bloom feeds should be a rule this community practices because we are contributing to excessive N waste, even Organic growers. I refer you to the first dust bowl, an event caused by organic farmers.

Adding things alters the biome of biology, does this user know which inputs favor which classes of bacteria for example? EG how does compost differ to Kelp meal, or EWC or Woodchips, or green/ animal manures, chitin and so on, in terms of the life it supports in soil systems and so the downstream access for plants??
There is no organics without the biome and its CO2, at least not in the time frames required to satiate ever changing protein cascades which underpin life. Simply plants cant access many organics without help to convert to ions. So we add water from which we take elements, Oxygen or Hydrogen, and the CO2 of life is used where they form an acid which mineralises elements from the soil.

Life in soil and its healthy respiration need to be measured in organic systems, but this simple practice is ignored by the ignorant and so no one has the data to make informed choices about amending or not. Which one to add is pissing in the wind if we dont understand the rate of respiration in our soils as a base marker.

One thing is true, there is not enough research being done, but just as under educated farmers apply poison to there own land, and follow the ideas of a man (JV Liebig) whose own theories were changed in his own life time btw, so it is cannabis stoner growers also cant be arsed with details and put too much trust in people whose soul objective is to make money.
Not sure how to respond to this.?
 

Ecompost

Well-Known Member
I really appreciate your informative posts!

The dust bowl can be attributed to farming practices for sure, but that’s neither here nor there for indoor and small scale growers.

Also, N is reduced my the AG industry because they chemically feed often, and want to save money.

Organic farmers of Cannabis can often reuse their rich organic soils, so the reduction of N is not anywhere near as pronounced. These crops can be extremely tasty product. That’s why I reccomended using an N rich amendment for organic soils. Not too much, just enough to keep things happy.

As for the compost and microbiology, that is a huge topic to get into. In short, the plant will only take what it needs and a little extra variety in additives, when not overdone, isn’t the end of the world. You don’t need to know 100% how organic decomposition works to utilize it, that’s just silly and esoteric.
i wasnt complaining you made a recommendation, I am just blunt by nature, and in fact i use alfalfa among many other things discussed in this thread, but I also suggest i probably use far less of most things than most growers, because i spend my time testing for CO2 burst rate to check the microbial respiration before i add anything at all.
i was merely pointing out that every action has a reaction blah...and for me, its better to know, in detail, what this is before i leap.
Yes some topics are huge, and complex, this is why we ought to try to understand them so we can do things better and be better stewards of plants and the planet. Progress thats all.
i disagree that Ag only considers the cost of N adds. its understanding and this is why they use it more correctly than home growers and domestic users who widely lack the need for this education about where and when and how much.
Surely its more likely those whose livelihoods depend on consistency, have really understood the crops they grow, because this is the only way to really prevent negatives to economy (Labour, $$$'s or watts etc) and ecology, which they would otherwise bear the brunt of, certaintly as self employed farmers and food producers, and with wholesale food prices being lowered by the likes of walmart, it is critical they really know what and when to use anything additionally or margins would be over run in days. Farmers tend to focus on few cultivars of a limited # of crops and so they can and do spend time researching and testing timings for said crops, as well as monitoring data such a as environmental changes.

Of course any time someone mentions problems with organics, indoor growers, using this method esp, begin to throw their toys out of their prams and get all hyper defensive, claiming they are "a non leaching organic haven island" without ever really knowing this is true, and how individuals or small scale growers cant make a difference to the wider environment, esp true if they havent been bothered enough to understand totally and or have their heads in sand or worse up the asses.
The facts about synthetic N use are just that buddy, FACTS, its domestic users over doing it in most cases and each one of these is small scale, but collectively they all own the larger land mass and so make the most impact.
No smirking either as organic indoor growers pump up to 330 watts of fossil fuel based energy per plant in an attempt to mimic the sun and grow a plant in minus 15c or +35 (I took the number in Watts from a posts here where the growers cant even understand light as a human versus light as a plant but know they should use more watts).

Not forgetting. cannabis might otherwise have been a plant to lift third world nations out of poverty had we not all grown it inside in our over indulgent western houses, but who cares about those Africans et al right? And we, or the Dutch mainly, may not have damaged our options and library of landrace stock, since today we have near zero true native strains, and have most likely lost countless forms of future medicine, but anything to suit a market in denial about its part in things.

Just because you are organic, dont mean you have good practices, and so the dust bowl point is relevant as it high lights its not just synthetics that cause problems we all have to manage at great cost. Just reusing your media doesnt mean you are not leaching excessive nitrogen or phosphates either. I am an organic grower buddy and I make nutrients/ bio stims and biology too.
i agree by the way that organic anything is the only true option and it will provide the most natural and resonant effect for users, and this includes having a better taste, but there are still glaring gaps in peoples understanding and so we can not be sure today we are doing it right
 

JayBio420

Well-Known Member
Well, starting to get the feeling you are posting irritated, What with calling me buddy and your diction.

We were talking about feeding organic N sources to this gentleman’s plants for next time, as I felt his N was slightly low.

Everyone’s knowledge base is different, better get started educating people instead of complaining about everyone’s knowledge. I think you’re getting a little bit carried away!
 

Ecompost

Well-Known Member
Well, starting to get the feeling you are posting irritated, What with calling me buddy and your diction.

We were talking about feeding organic N sources to this gentleman’s plants for next time, as I felt his N was slightly low.

Everyone’s knowledge base is different, better get started educating people instead of complaining about everyone’s knowledge. I think you’re getting a little bit carried away!
sorry where I come from buddy is a term of endearment not a word to show frustration
 

newgrow16

Well-Known Member
Sorry that my grow is causing so much damage in the world. I am just a 66 year old white guy that has been doing worse things my whole life if I read the right messages spewed today.

I grow for two reasons, first is money and second is purity. It would be easier to purchase my medical cannabis at the Cali legal dispensaries for only $70 an eighth and I still not know what I am getting. Half the dollars go to Cali.

I use a lot of cannabis. I can't afford to buy it for the remainder of my life. Arthritis has kicked my butt, two knee replacements and it is still hard as it attacks other joints.

As an accountant by profession I have no clue how to measure the breathing rate of my soil, other than observing what is growing out of it. Then I read and try to understand and learn. Finally, I ask questions. I am just trying to put together a soil that will not require much input during the grow. Again I am sorry Africa suffers from what I do.
 

newgrow16

Well-Known Member
I am also a gardening hobbyist, outdoors in 8x8 beds. Grew broccoli, lettuce, kale, onions, tomatoes, peas, carrots, watermelon, peanuts, and two beds full of corn, beans and squash all mixed together at a church in SoCal heat. So, not a professional but just trying to grow things as best as I can.
 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
Sorry that my grow is causing so much damage in the world. I am just a 66 year old white guy that has been doing worse things my whole life if I read the right messages spewed today.

I grow for two reasons, first is money and second is purity. It would be easier to purchase my medical cannabis at the Cali legal dispensaries for only $70 an eighth and I still not know what I am getting. Half the dollars go to Cali.

I use a lot of cannabis. I can't afford to buy it for the remainder of my life. Arthritis has kicked my butt, two knee replacements and it is still hard as it attacks other joints.

As an accountant by profession I have no clue how to measure the breathing rate of my soil, other than observing what is growing out of it. Then I read and try to understand and learn. Finally, I ask questions. I am just trying to put together a soil that will not require much input during the grow. Again I am sorry Africa suffers from what I do.
Are you smoking it for pain relief?
Have you tried cannabis topical creams for pain?
They work great for some arthritis and muscle pains.
 

newgrow16

Well-Known Member
Are you smoking it for pain relief?
Have you tried cannabis topical creams for pain?
They work great for some arthritis and muscle pains.
Yes and yes, cbd cream gives immediate relief but not long lasting, wife uses cream every night plus balm.
 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
Yes and yes, cbd cream gives immediate relief but not long lasting, wife uses cream every night plus balm.
I was wondering if you got the answers you were looking for in this thread.

I experiment with feeding different ways and try to have a healthy plant with the last feeding being in the 5th or 6th week with a 9-11 week strain. Water only after week 6 even if they fade early.

At 2 weeks flowering when you fed ewc, kelp meal and malted barley flour.
This is what I would have probably fed my plants in that situation.
Ewc, Kelp and Happy Frog 6-4-4 or DTE Bio Live 5-4-2.
There are many other balanced fertilizers that are popular.
My plants are sativa dominant and like a bit more N than some strains.

I find the most common deficiencies to be Nitrogen and magnesium followed by calcium and phosphorus in my plants.

If individual deficiencies show up before week 6 of flowering.
These are my go to, others may not agree.
Nitrogen def. Blood Meal.
Magnesium def, Epsom Salt.
Calcium Def, GO cal/mag+ and a top dressing of gypsum.
Phosphorus, 0-5-0 bat guano.

I have re amended a soil countless times.
Not sure how good it is at this time, most of my plants are a heathy green and some are praying.
I'll be making a fresh batch from scratch soon and also get a bag of ffof to do a comparative grow to see how this old soil compares.

Anyway the last time I amended it, these were the additions.
Not sure of quantities, what I add changes each time so this may not be to helpful.
Old soil.
Pro mix HP.
Peat.
Perlite.
Vermiculite.
Bio Char.
Pumice. (New addition)
Dolo lime
EWC
Green Sand (This is not added every time)
Gypsum
Happy Frog 6-4-4 (Sometimes I use DTE Bio live or ff Marine Cuisine)

This is not to say I am doing things properly, I'm sure I still have a lot to learn and will continue to evolve.
Good Luck!
 
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newgrow16

Well-Known Member
Harvested a headband 707, nice terpene's and nice aroma, small plant. Plant stayed smaller and grew less than all other varieties.

Are symptoms of underwater same as overwatering? Soil from this plant was very dry and I thought it would still have had enough water, yikes? Too little or too much?
 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
Harvested a headband 707, nice terpene's and nice aroma, small plant. Plant stayed smaller and grew less than all other varieties.

Are symptoms of underwater same as overwatering? Soil from this plant was very dry and I thought it would still have had enough water, yikes? Too little or too much?
In both cases they will wilt. The overwatered plants leaves will often have a good green color and shine where the underwatered leaves will loose luster and the lower leaves are more likely to dry up and die.
 

newgrow16

Well-Known Member
I struggle with watering and think i may have underwatered during weeks 6-7. Trying too hard not to have runoff.

With that in mind, I don't think the soil is that bad, going to reuse with a cup of the BAS blend mixed in the soil after harvest.
 
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newgrow16

Well-Known Member
Too much nitrogen in that soil and not enough micros, a heirloom tomato plant grown in 8 x 8 bed, volunteer, no nutrients. Soil was amended with what used to be black forest organic soil amendment. Guess that i had amended a few too many times ( about 5 years worth ).

This plant is missing about a third of its vegetation before I pulled it out:

IMG-20171007-WA0004.jpg
 
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