Water Chiller Size

PetFlora said:

How do you know that he's a quack? Proof please, not opinion, and definitely not Wiki lies opinions

https://steemit.com/steemit/@verbz/fantastic-properties-of-nano-bubbles

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ha i knew it. i don't need wiki to tell me when science is wrong. i knew it was one in the same.

i tell you what, if i made a machine that made free energy, a perpetual engine if you will, i'd be rich. i wouldn't have every actual scientist saying my science was wrong. watch the guys own documentary on his energy machine, his own doc. that is proof enough. the guy's obviously intelligent, but you can't break the laws of physics just because you're smart. if his invention worked, he'd be rich and we'd all have free energy engines in our house powering our lights.

PetFlora said:

Water chillers serve a purpose, but not creating O2

Do you agree that keeping water temps < 80*s helps maintain DO in solution, or perhaps more importantly keeps root/plant diseases at bay?

While it seems you will never come around to understanding that what appears negligible in your physics books may not apply in ther real world... where are the A/B studies? Anyway, let's get off that topic.

I have been in contact with Dennis from O2Grow, and my scientist acquaintance who posted the videos I linked in these threads sent this link, which is an eye opener, and kinda proves you right, but not for the reasons you have been espousing. Oh, and by the way cancer cells cannot thrive in an oxygen rich environment

https://steemit.com/steemit/@verbz/fantastic-properties-of-nano-bubbles

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I do not often say it in public, but I truly think you are either a troll, extremly stupid or just plain ignorant.

Keeping watertemperatures low is good for preventing diseases.
For reaching a good DO level it is a side effect.

I did learn this from a book, and saw the proof in a working enviroment.
Have you ever used a portable DO meter from Hannah for example?
I did, and there is no huge difference in different watertemperatures.
Also you see hardly any differences in DO levels if you measure it first and then again half an hour later. Although the roots consumed a lot of DO, the simple fact of airpressure putting in new oxygen in the water, fills up the DO again.
For your information, there are people who advise the biggest greenhouses in the world, and they say that there is plenty of DO in water if you agitate the water just a little bit. Their pieces are published in renowned agricultural journals.

Your cancer story... i have no idea.
But whoever claimes ''oh, and by the way, it also helps cure or prevent cancer'' is often a scam-artist.

More proof you can't fix stupid. I've done what I came to do in these 3 threads

There's an old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"

See ya, wouldn't want to be ya

well this has been an informative post so far. I'm about to buy a 1/20 hp for about 100 litre set up? temps around here get up to 35 degrees

johnwest221 said:

well this has been an informative post so far. I'm about to buy a 1/20 hp for about 100 litre set up? temps around here get up to 35 degrees

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Don't waste your money on a 1/20. Buy at LEAST 1/10HP for your 25 gallons. The 1/20 won't be enough. And even if it was, itd be on constantly and if you ever need more chilling power, you've got it. I would honestly say get a 1/4HP if you're going to spend the money on a chiller. You'll be glad you did. A 1/4 will chill the Shit out of 25gallons and will only need to turn on for a very short amount of time to get it back down to your target temp.

hows the dishonesty then in the advertisement of some of these chillers.. over exaggerating with volume and flow rate. thanks for the heads up .. i saw an Italian brand one, it could only does 300-500 flow with up too 150 liters that is 1/4 hp .400 bucks more expensive then say this one that claims twice as much volume and flow but 1/20.. https://www.kellyvillepets.com.au/products/hailea-chiller-1-20-hp

this is the Italian one i might get
https://www.eppinghydroponics.com.au/teco-water-chiller-heater.html

what do you think of these claims ?

johnwest221 said:

hows the dishonesty then in the advertisement of some of these chillers.. over exaggerating with volume and flow rate. thanks for the heads up .. i saw an Italian brand one, it could only does 300-500 flow with up too 150 liters that is 1/4 hp .400 bucks more expensive then say this one that claims twice as much volume and flow but 1/20.. https://www.kellyvillepets.com.au/products/hailea-chiller-1-20-hp

this is the Italian one i might get
https://www.eppinghydroponics.com.au/teco-water-chiller-heater.html

what do you think of these claims ?

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This is what I'd do if I were you.

Or if you want to buy from that website you posted:

Thanks just purchased it.

johnwest221 said:

Thanks just purchased it.

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Fuckin bad ass dude. Take pics when it arrives, will ya?

I always get so excited about chillers. They're fuckin cool, man. "literally" -.-

Pythium is happy to exist in 65 degree water. I used to have rot problems. Bought a chiller and all new containers. Worked fine for a grow or two... started having rot issues again. Looked into beneficial bacteria. Solved all my rot problems.

It might be worth chilling for the extra DO content, but as mentioned the difference between 65 and 72 is not extreme. Also to consider is that plant metabolism can slow a bit with roots at 65 taking away from the DO gains. I just keep everything at 70-72 and let the good bacteria deal with the rot.

I've also discovered that beneficial bacteria does it's job while the plant is establishing roots. I run it in the cloner and during veg. Going into 12/12 the plant is "innoculated" and no further applications are necessary.

Rahz said:

Pythium is happy to exist in 65 degree water. I used to have rot problems. Bought a chiller and all new containers. Worked fine for a grow or two... started having rot issues again. Looked into beneficial bacteria. Solved all my rot problems.

It might be worth chilling for the extra DO content, but as mentioned the difference between 65 and 72 is not extreme. Also to consider is that plant metabolism can slow a bit with roots at 65 taking away from the DO gains. I just keep everything at 70-72 and let the good bacteria deal with the rot.

I've also discovered that beneficial bacteria does it's job while the plant is establishing roots. I run it in the cloner and during veg. Going into 12/12 the plant is "innoculated" and no further applications are necessary.

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I've experienced the opposite. Hot and slimy roots until a chiller was added and now I've never had even close to it again.

Hey, if it works, it works. I'll never go back to sterile cultures again. Your experience has created a different preference. I'm not sure, but it might be possible that cooler root temps could support higher canopy temps, so you could get the benefits of higher DO without the negatives of lower root temps. I wouldn't mind playing around with chillers again, but without the contam concern I haven't felt motivated. Happy plants are happy plants.

Rahz said:

Pythium is happy to exist in 65 degree water. I used to have rot problems. Bought a chiller and all new containers. Worked fine for a grow or two... started having rot issues again. Looked into beneficial bacteria. Solved all my rot problems.

It might be worth chilling for the extra DO content, but as mentioned the difference between 65 and 72 is not extreme. Also to consider is that plant metabolism can slow a bit with roots at 65 taking away from the DO gains. I just keep everything at 70-72 and let the good bacteria deal with the rot.

I've also discovered that beneficial bacteria does it's job while the plant is establishing roots. I run it in the cloner and during veg. Going into 12/12 the plant is "innoculated" and no further applications are necessary.

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Root rot is the collective name of a number of different diseases that almost all look pretty identical on the outside.
But the causes can be very diverse.
For us amateurs (and even professionals), it is hard to say without a laboratory test what the disease is.
Some diseases thrive better at lower temperatures, others at higher ones.

The difference in DO between the temperatures is negligible.
A problem that growers have to deal with more in hydro is that DO does not reach the roots.

Good info. I remember reading that pythium is the most common, accounting for something like 70 percent of hydroponic rot issues, but there has to be pythium in the immediate environment and there has to be a vector. Pythium doesn't have an airborn stage. It can get kicked up but won't travel long distance through air. Location, sanitary procedures and precautions, etc.

FWIW, 65 degree water can hold about 6% more DO than 70 degree water and about 8% more than 72 degree water. Not an extreme difference, but not negligible. I don't know how the extra DO stacks up against the metabolic difference between 65 and 72 and I prefer not to have a chiller to clean and maintain. It can vary by strain but I suspect like many plants that enjoy warm weather canna roots in well aerated soil do best mid 70s with mid 80 air temps. Whether using a chiller to maintain a temperature variance between roots and air is useful I'm not sure. There are so many factors, in house testing would need to be done to determine how one setup works vs another.

For whatever reason, a lot of people shy away from beneficial bacteria but when it comes to guarding against pathogens it seems like the most full (or fool) proof method. I love the stuff. With multi strain products some of the more residue producing species can dominate and make cleaning a little more difficult. For someone who wanted to use a chiller plus bennies, a pure trychoderma product like Root Shield would be ideal for preventing buildup in the chiller coil. Trichoderma and other species can help facilitate nutrient intake so it's worth considering beyond rot prevention.

Rahz said:

FWIW, 65 degree water can hold about 6% more DO than 70 degree water and about 8% more than 72 degree water. Not an extreme difference, but not negligible.

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In itself the difference between 8.4 and 9.2 is not negligible. It is about 10 %. You are right there.
But is negligible in hydro, the way hydro works.

At 20 ° C / 68 °F water contains 9.2 milli grams per liter
At 25 ° C / 77 ° F it is 8.4 mg's per liter.
Let's say you have a reservoir of 37 liters = 10 gallons and a plant with 1 kilo of roots.
Then with maximum DO the res would hold (theoretically) 37 x 9.2 mg = 340 mg if the res temp was 20 ° C / 68 °F.
If the res temp was 25 ° C / 68 °F it would hold (theoretically) 37 x 8.4 mg = 310 mg.
Sounds not like a big difference as well But it is a difference.

Roots of most plants absorb about 200 mg of oxygen per hour = 3.33 mg per minute per 1 kilo of roots.
Let's say that the res is 37 liters and the roots weigh 1 kilo.
So with the water of 20 ° C / 68 °F the roots would then have oxygen for 102 minutes.
With water of 25 ° C / 77 °F the roots would have oxygen for 93 minutes.
But, and this is important, the moment the roots absorb the DO, the oxygen that disappeared from the water will be filled up again.
Because any movement of the water surface will make sure that air pressure will put new oxygen in the water.
It is a never ending supply of oxygen.

So it doesn't matter if the water can have a maximum DO of 9.2 or 8.4 grams.... it will always be maximum DO and plenty of oxygen (in theory) for the roots.
Only when the water gets too warm, or the res is too small, or you have a huge rootball in a small reservoir, it will be a problem.
But with temperatures between 65 and 79 the difference in DO is negligible. In hydro under normal circumstances, that is.
Keeping your temps low for more DO is useless (again, don't take the risk with temperatures of 30 ° C / 86 °F.

A bigger problem with DO is that DO does not always reach all the roots. That is something that growers should be aware of. Water with 10 mg of DO per liter water is high in oxygen, but if the oxygen does not reach the roots, it does not make much sense.
Some growers have airstones in a bucket of 4 gallons, a huge, dense rootball, and then they see their plant perform badly.
"But I have 3 airstones! And I bought a chiller of $ 300 and my water is 18 ° C / 65 ° F! Should I buy another air stone... a bigger air pump... a bigger chiller?"

heres a question. the HC-300A has a flow rate of 1000 - 2500 l/h im going for a water fall so i already have a 3500 l/h inline pump but struggling to find a pump thats in the middle of the hc rate. my question in this case is which hc pump would be better 1000 l/h or 2800 l/h

ps pics comes soon when i set up