War

DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
printer said:
But most of the regions have not been too keen on the US as the CIA has propped up dictators against the people. So it is a case of the devil you know as compared to the devil you do not know telling you the devil you know is doing bad things.
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They have their baggage and that's where Canada and the EU can help, we have better relations with some of them than Americans do. It's pretty much a united front for liberal democracies with a few notable exceptions, not all democracies are so liberal either. However the recent atrocities haven't helped the Russians with global public opinion and the UN is taking on an increasing roll in the humanitarian aspects.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
It would be bad for Joe and several western leaders if Ukraine lost this war, some retired generals are jumping and dancing on TV for more munitions and arms, especially from America's massive stockpiles of modern weapons and those being replaced by other systems. The arms that were going to Saudi Arabia should be diverted to Ukraine, liberal democracies at war come first under lend lease, or should.

We want to bleed the Russians white, not the Ukrainians and the way to do that is with the arms the experts are howling for, though I feel we are helping far more than we are letting on. Kick Putin out with a maximum of Russian blood and equipment lost and a minimum amount of Ukrainian casualties. It is unfortunately the only path to peace and a lasting peace too, make it impossible for Russia to rise again unless it's as a reformed democracy. Make Ukraine strong, aligned with NATO and with bilateral defense agreements with Turkey and Poland. Make them Europe's primary natural gas supplier and develop the resource to develop and repair the country. Once developed, all the natural gas and oil revenue from Europe going to Russia can go to Ukraine for a decade at least. Europe will be keenly interested in defending it's primary energy supplier, so they will have incentives and a way to get by until they develop alternatives and a green new grid.

The Ukrainians have gotta win to do it though, to free not just themselves, but all of Europe from Russian energy dependence. Even if the gas only lasted for 5 years, it would still be worthwhile and would allow alternatives to be developed, more EVs and energy efficiency upgrades. In a decade most of the cars on the roads of Europe will be EVs, green new grids will use battery energy storage to increase efficiency and use of renewables. In a decade the demand for fossil fuels in Europe could drop dramatically and in other places as well.
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Fareed Zakaria: We must stop Putin's Plan B

 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
This appear legitimate, if poorly produced, it is based on a press release from the Ukrainians and they don't lie, unless they need to. They have reporters from the world all over the place and need their credibility and the support of allies and you don't lie to allies, not much anyway! Deception and secrecy in war is expected and understandable for military reasons, and lies can also be justified by military or national security interests. The assholes should have lots of surprises, like the sinking of a capital ship and bombing supply dumps and railway bridges inside Russia. New an unexpected weapons on the battle field can hold nasty surprises too, drones and mobile long range artillery are among them when they work with those anti artillery radars they can decimate Russian towed artillery units and parked tanks.
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Various Russian Units BEATEN By Ukraine in Donetsk and Luhansk

 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
It would be bad for Joe and several western leaders if Ukraine lost this war, some retired generals are jumping and dancing on TV for more munitions and arms, especially from America's massive stockpiles of modern weapons and those being replaced by other systems. The arms that were going to Saudi Arabia should be diverted to Ukraine, liberal democracies at war come first under lend lease, or should.

We want to bleed the Russians white, not the Ukrainians and the way to do that is with the arms the experts are howling for, though I feel we are helping far more than we are letting on. Kick Putin out with a maximum of Russian blood and equipment lost and a minimum amount of Ukrainian casualties. It is unfortunately the only path to peace and a lasting peace too, make it impossible for Russia to rise again unless it's as a reformed democracy. Make Ukraine strong, aligned with NATO and with bilateral defense agreements with Turkey and Poland. Make them Europe's primary natural gas supplier and develop the resource to develop and repair the country. Once developed, all the natural gas and oil revenue from Europe going to Russia can go to Ukraine for a decade at least. Europe will be keenly interested in defending it's primary energy supplier, so they will have incentives and a way to get by until they develop alternatives and a green new grid.

The Ukrainians have gotta win to do it though, to free not just themselves, but all of Europe from Russian energy dependence. Even if the gas only lasted for 5 years, it would still be worthwhile and would allow alternatives to be developed, more EVs and energy efficiency upgrades. In a decade most of the cars on the roads of Europe will be EVs, green new grids will use battery energy storage to increase efficiency and use of renewables. In a decade the demand for fossil fuels in Europe could drop dramatically and in other places as well.
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Fareed Zakaria: We must stop Putin's Plan B

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I think US and Nato need to man up and give the Ukrainians serious offensive weapons. Fighters. Ground-attack assets. Smart bombs and missiles. Lotsa Apaches.

We need to take the risk that Putin will use wmd. The moment he does, massed Nato assets march and fly in and disarticute Russian warfighting and weapons manufacture capacity. We stop when Russia has been stripped of nuclear weapons and all submarines, and preferably every Tu-160 is back in sovereign Ukraine.
 
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DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I think US and Nato need to man up and give the Ukrainians serious offensive weapons. Fighters. Ground-attack assets. Smart bombs and missiles. Lotsa Apaches.

We need to take the risk that Putin will use wmd. The moment he does, massed Nato assets march and fly in and disarticute Russian warfighting and wrapons manufacture capacity. We stop when Russia has been stripped of nuclear weapons and all submarines, and preferably every Tu-160 is back in sovereign Ukraine.
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I think part of the big strategic picture might be to suck Vlad in, make him think he's got a chance of winning and draw him further into the trap. The idea being to trap his army in Ukraine and destroy it, he has 60% of his combat power in Ukraine now with more arriving and forces are being committed piecemeal, to reinforce repeated failures. Wear them down and strike them offensively and hard with the modern arms that are pouring in, particularly that long range mobile artillery and the anti artillery radars. American offensive drones are yet to make an appearance or have an impact, summer is guerilla season and the Ukrainians have a massive force of them, trained, equipped and ready to go. I can see them infiltrating hundreds of teams across the Dnieper river by boat into the southern front creating havoc along their logistic routes and tying down thousands of troops. There are more possibilities for mayhem and problems for Vlad than can be counted and they have to wipe the drool off the desks at the CIA and Pentagon! :lol:
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
This makes more sense with the photos of the deserted damaged ship and the state of the sea was not that bad at all, rescue would have been easy. About 40 dead sounds about right, I don't see anybody aboard in the pictures, probably taken before the ammo exploded and sent her to the bottom.

This is from the Ukrainians.

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printer

printer

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
They have their baggage and that's where Canada and the EU can help, we have better relations with some of them than Americans do. It's pretty much a united front for liberal democracies with a few notable exceptions, not all democracies are so liberal either. However the recent atrocities haven't helped the Russians with global public opinion and the UN is taking on an increasing roll in the humanitarian aspects.
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The general population do not care about Canada or the EU. They care about American skulduggery and Russia feeding them.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
printer said:
The general population do not care about Canada or the EU. They care about American skulduggery and Russia feeding them.
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they really care about someone feeding them, if we can step up and help them out, American skullduggery will seem like less of a threat, and they'll remember it was US and not russia who helped them out...besides, i don't think russia is going to be in much of a position to help anyone by the time this is over
 
Sir Napsalot

Sir Napsalot

Well-Known Member
Friendly_Grower said:
I have to admit the sinking of that Flagship made me happy.

Naturally it sank because of a onboard fire but naturally Russia must get revenge for it on Ukraine.
So what is it? Ukraine sunk it with their Neptune missiles or inept Russian Sailors started a fire onboard and blew it up themselves.

So either got their ass kicked or they are too stupid to be left alone with munitions?
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That's exactly what I was thinking
 
Friendly_Grower

Friendly_Grower

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
they really care about someone feeding them, if we can step up and help them out, American skullduggery will seem like less of a threat, and they'll remember it was US and not Russia who helped them out...besides, i don't think Russia is going to be in much of a position to help anyone by the time this is over
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You are right!
The sanctions will last for years.
I think it was plain to see that the Russian expansion could only be routed to the edges.
It looks like extremely long term effects on the Russian economy will change life for all Russians.
I mean there is no time limit on arresting Russian Yachts, houses, cars and so on.
There is also no time limit on decoupling the Oil and Gas to Europe. It will take a few years to get set up but the political will is already manifest in my opinion.

It's rather dumb if you ask me, that in the age of such international dependencies of trade that Putin is betting it all on dependence on Russian Oil and Gas. It's an industry that will not grow as much as Russia will need to modernize it's military. That is unless they starve the Russian people.

I have to ask, are there enough people of this world who want to be ruled by a dictator to keep Putin in power until he dies?

I'm thinking it's an old joke by now that people do not want a Democracy. They want to be rode hard and put away wet every time? I don't think so.
 
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