Venting

this is a great site, i have been doing allot of reading and have learned allot. i am working on the ventalation. some say you should recirculate the air every five minutes while others say three, two, one, and heath robinson says twice a minute. i have a 980 cfm blower(free) which would recirculate the air just about twice a minute. i am not going to use co2 . is it possible to circulate too much?
 

roidrage152

Active Member
I've always went by the idea of recirculating every 5 minutes, however always just overkilled. Impossible to recycle too much. The idea of recycling the air is that CO2 gets used up in the existing air, and needs to be replaced with fresh air to replenish the CO2. If you are constantly recycling, CO2 levels should stay at the ambient level of 3-500ppm which is ideal for a non CO2 enriched environment.
 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
If all your concerned about is air exchange so the plants have fresh c02, you're going way over what you need, it takes hours for even tightly packed plants to drop c02 100ppm in a grow room, for this all you need is a small amount of air exchange. I assume smell isn't an issue for you if your pumping that much grow rom air out and you didn't mention a carbon filter?.. If i could evacuate that much air from my grow room, and not worry about someone smelling it, i would be growing outside, ha. I've owned a c02 ppm meter, all it made me realize was i didn't need to worry about c02 levels at all in my grow space, and i only have a 12v 100 cfm fan pumping out an 11x12 room. The way i look at it is like this,.. as long as I'm pumping more air out of the room then is being pumped in, through a carbon filter, I'm going to have enough air exchange for high enough c02 levels, and no one will smell my plants. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no need to carbon filter the entire volume of air in a grow room, none of it will ever get out and be smelt if even just a little more then is being pumped in, is being pumped out through a carbon filter. Let the stink stay in the room, a negative vacuums is all you need imo.
 
thanks diyer, i am planning on using a carbon filter and smell is a priority. carbon filters for that much cfm are pricey and i would like to get away from all of that. a 180 cfm blower would circulate the are every three minutes roughly. it's been a long time since i have had a grow room and i am having to relearn over again. i know once i get set up and see the plants growing and how they react to my enviroment i will leaern allot.i am starting with a vertical grow and i am going to grow six trees with 2000w. i also like the verticale scrog grows that i have seen, i am going to try both and see what happens.
 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
I've done the DIY filter thing before, but now-a-days i prefer to buy 1 of these Can33 Filters, i do so every year. This way i know the proper cfm rating for the carbon, if you blow too much air too fast through any carbon filter its useless. I made my own flange for it, and just used this 84cfm pc fan. The fan under rates the cfm flow for the filter, so i know it will last at least as long as they say it will (12-18 months) and going under also assures the air being blown out doesn't smell at all. Well worth the $120 investment for everything IMO. I mean that's $10 a month to not get robbed, haha..

I don't know what kind of space you're growing in, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't even have to be air tight. In theory i believe, as long as you have a negative vacuum, you can grow in a room sized block of swiss cheese, lol. As long as you're pumping air out of the room through a carbon filter, air will come through the cracks and holes in your grow space (which is good because you want to exchange c02), and as long as air is coming into the grow room through cracks none is getting out, so no ones smelling it. I did a smoke test at the bottom of the doors to my grow room, got me real high too laying on the floor taking way more hits then i normally would to get high, but smoke gets sucked into the room from under the door, not blown away, so i think i must be good.bongsmilie

EDIT: just did the math for my room even though i don't think its anything anyone needs to worry about, and i was right, lol... my little ass 84cfm pc fan, blowing through a Can33 carbon filter, in my 11'x12'x10' room, exchanges the whole rooms air volume every 15.4 min. Do you know how long it would take a room that sized packed full of plants to use up even 100ppm of c02? Waaaaaay longer them 15 min that's for sure.

The c02 ppm meter i had,.. when i would breath on it i could make it read 2000ppm in seconds,.. once i had it in my big bedroom, and me and my girl fucked, and we set off the c02 alarm it had for 2500ppm, lol ...c02 is everywhere, just breath on your bitches and they'll get you higher!
 

FootClan

Well-Known Member
If all your concerned about is air exchange so the plants have fresh c02, you're going way over what you need, it takes hours for even tightly packed plants to drop c02 100ppm in a grow room, for this all you need is a small amount of air exchange. I assume smell isn't an issue for you if your pumping that much grow rom air out and you didn't mention a carbon filter?.. If i could evacuate that much air from my grow room, and not worry about someone smelling it, i would be growing outside, ha. I've owned a c02 ppm meter, all it made me realize was i didn't need to worry about c02 levels at all in my grow space, and i only have a 12v 100 cfm fan pumping out an 11x12 room. The way i look at it is like this,.. as long as I'm pumping more air out of the room then is being pumped in, through a carbon filter, I'm going to have enough air exchange for high enough c02 levels, and no one will smell my plants. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no need to carbon filter the entire volume of air in a grow room, none of it will ever get out and be smelt if even just a little more then is being pumped in, is being pumped out through a carbon filter. Let the stink stay in the room, a negative vacuums is all you need imo.
Well i dont know what kinda plants you got but in my sealed room is dosent take hours for my plants to use up all the available Co2 in the room..... And my system is exact My Co2 censor talks directly to my computer proccesor and it quickly uses up available Co2 in my sealed room....When you say it takes hours for plants to use up the Co2 even when tightly packed in a space i would have to strongley disagree based on my findings and what my Co2 censor suggests...

Also my censors arent just giving out realtime reading of the Co2 levels but it also is recording the levels through the day and i can pull up a bar graph to see what its been doing so based on the fact that i actually can see exactly what the Co2 is doing id say your wrong.......Just my opinion though
 

HydroDawg421

Well-Known Member
Well i dont know what kinda plants you got but in my sealed room is dosent take hours for my plants to use up all the available Co2 in the room..... And my system is exact My Co2 censor talks directly to my computer proccesor and it quickly uses up available Co2 in my sealed room....When you say it takes hours for plants to use up the Co2 even when tightly packed in a space i would have to strongley disagree based on my findings and what my Co2 censor suggests...

Also my censors arent just giving out realtime reading of the Co2 levels but it also is recording the levels through the day and i can pull up a bar graph to see what its been doing so based on the fact that i actually can see exactly what the Co2 is doing id say your wrong.......Just my opinion though

Tell me more about how your CO2 sensor is communicating with your computer.
 

FootClan

Well-Known Member
Tell me more about how your CO2 sensor is communicating with your computer.
sure here ya go.....
The control system is based on an industrial PLC (programmable logic controller) called momentum. made by Schneider Electric (Modicon for those interested). The unit runs on 24VDC so a power supply is needed. It has 8 discrete inputs and 8 discrete outputs. The analog module has 8 analog inputs and each point is configurable for 0-10 VDC or 4-20mA as required. The outputs have interposing relays as the controllers typically can not handle the currents used in your application. I used one of the software platforms available from Schneider called " proworks". It utilizes a programming style known as LL984 or simply "ladder logic.". It is fairly easy to navigate if you have any industrial programming experience. Novices will find the help files sketchy. This controller, once programmed, is a stand alone system and the unit has a backup battery to retain the program if powered down. It does not have ANY human machine interface. I am using an old home computer as the HMI. It communicates with the PLC via ethernet. The application is generically referred to as SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition). It is a free demo package from Inductive Automation called "Ignition" It is Java based and runs as a webpage. I run it under Firefox. The problem is this demo runs for 2 hours max and then shuts down and must be restarted. Keep in mind that the controller runs continuously without the need of the HMI. The licensed version is pricey ( last I checked it is over 15000.00) yes , really! The programming was tough for me as I had no experience with Java. The program utilizes an SQL database as its backbone. It has almost unlimited potential to build your own graphics or pick from the included library. the trend screens are invaluable for tuning the system and if I used an inexpensive commercially available HMI package, i would have to do without trend analysis. The advantage in using scada is that most computers with 10-100 NIC cards are ready to go with no modification required. You can share this with every one with a request that they please share thier designs with me. I might pick up a few pointers that way.​
 

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legallyflying

Well-Known Member
I will also confirm that CO2 levels will drop faster than you think in a room packed full of plants, but you DO NOT NEED to exchange air to supply co2, it just isn't absorbed that fast at low levels.

It is dependent on ALLOT of things and you need a very tightly sealed room (most people do not have this even though they "think it is sealed". You have a fan in the wall? then it ain't sealed.

I have a couple of plants in my flower room right now and I have a PPM meter in there but I am not supplementing co2. Just when the lights go on, its about 700 ppm in there as the plants are giving off co2 when the lights are off. After about an hour it goes down to about 500, then it takes several hours to get down to about 400, and then it really never drops much below that. (my ambient co2 level is about 380 as I live in a city and I'm like 1.5 miles from the freeway).

So the point being.. use your fans for temperature control, not for putting "fresh" air into the grow room. cool air will find its way into the warm room by means of the fan housings, light fixtures, gaps under the door, etc.
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
sure here ya go.....
The control system is based on an industrial PLC (programmable logic controller) called momentum. made by Schneider Electric (Modicon for those interested). The unit runs on 24VDC so a power supply is needed. It has 8 discrete inputs and 8 discrete outputs. The analog module has 8 analog inputs and each point is configurable for 0-10 VDC or 4-20mA as required. The outputs have interposing relays as the controllers typically can not handle the currents used in your application. I used one of the software platforms available from Schneider called " proworks". It utilizes a programming style known as LL984 or simply "ladder logic.". It is fairly easy to navigate if you have any industrial programming experience. Novices will find the help files sketchy. This controller, once programmed, is a stand alone system and the unit has a backup battery to retain the program if powered down. It does not have ANY human machine interface. I am using an old home computer as the HMI. It communicates with the PLC via ethernet. The application is generically referred to as SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition). It is a free demo package from Inductive Automation called "Ignition" It is Java based and runs as a webpage. I run it under Firefox. The problem is this demo runs for 2 hours max and then shuts down and must be restarted. Keep in mind that the controller runs continuously without the need of the HMI. The licensed version is pricey ( last I checked it is over 15000.00) yes , really! The programming was tough for me as I had no experience with Java. The program utilizes an SQL database as its backbone. It has almost unlimited potential to build your own graphics or pick from the included library. the trend screens are invaluable for tuning the system and if I used an inexpensive commercially available HMI package, i would have to do without trend analysis. The advantage in using scada is that most computers with 10-100 NIC cards are ready to go with no modification required. You can share this with every one with a request that they please share thier designs with me. I might pick up a few pointers that way.​

Jesus Christ LOL. Someone has some weird interests outside of growing weed :) Ok, so that sounds like a pretty cool, albeit pretty god damn elaborate system that is going to be expensive to set up as you still need all the environmental sensors. So,another route is to buy this thing.. http://www.zorotools.com/g/00029713/k-G0413971?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed

and just stick it in the room. When you want to see the temp, humidity, and co2 data, just pull the SD card out and put it in your computer. BOOM.. all data right into an excell file. It's actually pretty damn pimp. I have a similar model without CO2 monitoring, it was $70 and is made by hobo.
 

FootClan

Well-Known Member
Jesus Christ LOL. Someone has some weird interests outside of growing weed :) Ok, so that sounds like a pretty cool, albeit pretty god damn elaborate system that is going to be expensive to set up as you still need all the environmental sensors. So,another route is to buy this thing.. http://www.zorotools.com/g/00029713/k-G0413971?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feedand just stick it in the room. When you want to see the temp, humidity, and co2 data, just pull the SD card out and put it in your computer. BOOM.. all data right into an excell file. It's actually pretty damn pimp. I have a similar model without CO2 monitoring, it was $70 and is made by hobo.
ya that is very cool toy there....... And yes i had to buy all the external Censors like Co2 censory, 2 temp censors and a humdity censory and yes you are also right in that is wasnt cheap...lol
 

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FootClan

Well-Known Member
Oh and i didnt built the control panel my pops did hes an electrical engineer... I just built everything around it..... Even though your co2, temp thing is pretty cool my set up can be customized to anything i want.....My dad wrote alot of the software himself so the sky is the limit really on what we can do and how we do it......
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
yeah, that is cool but in all honesty... what would you change?

I have a hobo USB data logger for temperature and humidity. Thought I would skip Co2 because its fairly automated so I know where it is at most of the time. The logger is pretty cool, I just plug it into my computer and download the data.
 
thanks every one for your input, here is the set up i am working on. i have a 24'x14'x10' room. inside that room i am building 4 smaller rooms. 2 for bloom, 1 for veg, and 1 for cloning veg and moms. i am limited on how many plants i can have so the smaller rooms will work fine plus i can staggar them and have a harvest every 4 weeks. anyhow, all the rooms will be 6'x9'x10' so each room is 540 cu. ft. they are not sealed as i am not planning on using co2. in fact there will be a vent in the wall for each of them to match my exhaust for smooth circulation. i will have a 5'x23' hallway that i am going to heat and air condition and the exhaust blower will pull air from the hallway into the rooms for what ever the case may be.

hey foot clan, very cool set up, i have been thinking about getting a harvest master controller.
 
does anyone know, if i took the 980 cfm blower i have and set it up with four vent lines on it would it reduce the cfm to 245 cfm for each vent line?
 

FootClan

Well-Known Member
yeah, that is cool but in all honesty... what would you change?

I have a hobo USB data logger for temperature and humidity. Thought I would skip Co2 because its fairly automated so I know where it is at most of the time. The logger is pretty cool, I just plug it into my computer and download the data.
I dont know what id change....LOL maybe nothing....Its nice to know i can though if i think of someting to change haha..... This is only the first experament with the control panel like a beta version who knows what we can come up with inthe future.... I can take this setup and apply it to a bigger better one if i so choose.....

Its more about the fun part of it i mean i have another grow inside with no Co2, no heater, no AC, no control panel and it out yeilds my "RoboCrop" room EVERYTIME..... But its not nearly as cool or fun or a conversation starter...lol
 
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