Matt Rize
Hashmaster
BIG ASSUMPTION>many holes in that system
Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize
- Thread starter Matt Rize
- Start date
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
The number one goal of this thread is the development of a home-made recipe that rivals what bio canna is doing with the terra plus and the fermented plant extracts.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
I know, filling up my thread with bs. If you looked at my profile, I refer to myself as an instructor. Big bossman calls us professors, but sha! Who cares? That guy wants to play games on my thread like some lonely grower with nothing better to do...?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/professor
C: one that teaches or professes special knowledge of an art, sport, or occupation requiring skill
NUFF SAID: back to veganics
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Okay, here goes some vegan organic Blackberry Kush bubble hash. When you break the chunks up I can only describe it as: soft white/reddish waxy crumbly sticky.
This bubble was not heated or pressed or any of that. Just washed, collected, broke into smaller pieces, slowly dried. That's it folks. It's all about the quality of the trichomes.
This bubble was not heated or pressed or any of that. Just washed, collected, broke into smaller pieces, slowly dried. That's it folks. It's all about the quality of the trichomes.
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threefiftyse7en
Active Member
I had the pleasure of smoking some veganic Adonai Kush not too long ago. It was hands down the smoothest and BEST tasting ganja I've ever smoked. I wish I could get my hands on that again. 
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Yet another testimonial about the qualitative superiority of plant based organics.I had the pleasure of smoking some veganic Adonai Kush not too long ago. It was hands down the smoothest and BEST tasting ganja I've ever smoked. I wish I could get my hands on that again.
The Adonai Kush will soon be widely available soon in seed form, and as flowers in select dispensaries. Big up Shiloh Massive.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Time to catch up those who have just joined this discussion. This thread is about vegan organics, aka plant based organics, aka veganics.
Veganics is a growing trend in the organic gardening field. Evidence by the many international non-profit organization that I've posted who support vegan organic practices. There is even a "Stockfree Organic" certification in Europe.
Many people feel, for various reasons that have not been quantitatively* proved, that veganics is superior to traditional organics. Traditional organics is both plant and animal based organic products, while veganics is only plant based organic products. Issues with animal organics vary from personal lifestyle choice, to animal rights, to concerns over heavy metal accumulations and other risks associated with poop.
The feedback, qualitative so far (lab results are $120, but I'm scheduled for GC/MS this week!), has been off the charts. I've also posted some unbiased reviews from independent sources.
The system of indoor container growing that I am describing can be done by anyone/anywhere who has access to Canna products. Including those who live in apartments or other concrete jungles. The system I describe is based on Bio Canna products (Terra Plus, Vega, Flores, BioBoost), with supplementation by teas, microbes, molasses, humic/fulvic, seaweed, enzymes, and other some other stuff that includes a little bat guano (because I am not a purist to that degree).
Heavy metal and terpene testing in our flowers is the next step, and the lab is almost ready for public analysis, although I have the feeling price will be an issue because GC/MS ain't cheap. I am not here to prove that my herb has more THC or CBD. I am no longer looking for stronger flowers or higher yields. I am looking for quality based on purity, taste, smoothness, and overall affect. Science can quantify some of that, only the collective community can qualify the rest.
Veganics is a growing trend in the organic gardening field. Evidence by the many international non-profit organization that I've posted who support vegan organic practices. There is even a "Stockfree Organic" certification in Europe.
Many people feel, for various reasons that have not been quantitatively* proved, that veganics is superior to traditional organics. Traditional organics is both plant and animal based organic products, while veganics is only plant based organic products. Issues with animal organics vary from personal lifestyle choice, to animal rights, to concerns over heavy metal accumulations and other risks associated with poop.
The feedback, qualitative so far (lab results are $120, but I'm scheduled for GC/MS this week!), has been off the charts. I've also posted some unbiased reviews from independent sources.
The system of indoor container growing that I am describing can be done by anyone/anywhere who has access to Canna products. Including those who live in apartments or other concrete jungles. The system I describe is based on Bio Canna products (Terra Plus, Vega, Flores, BioBoost), with supplementation by teas, microbes, molasses, humic/fulvic, seaweed, enzymes, and other some other stuff that includes a little bat guano (because I am not a purist to that degree).
Heavy metal and terpene testing in our flowers is the next step, and the lab is almost ready for public analysis, although I have the feeling price will be an issue because GC/MS ain't cheap. I am not here to prove that my herb has more THC or CBD. I am no longer looking for stronger flowers or higher yields. I am looking for quality based on purity, taste, smoothness, and overall affect. Science can quantify some of that, only the collective community can qualify the rest.
upthearsenal
Well-Known Member
okay, so i've been getting everything ready for my end of the year/winter grow. it won't be strictly vegan but it will be a huge step in that direction.
i have a cousin who lives in cali and recently called him for some grow advice. he said he had never tried anything that was called vegan, but he himself grows very "clean organic weed with as little fertilizers and additives as possible". he recommended the bio canna products, and said that the flores and the bioboost were great. over the last few months i've grow a huge dislike to earth juice, i only use their microblast at this point. FF is okay with me but i'm willing to replace it for now.
although i don't have a good grow shop near me, by that i mean i have to drive 500miles to the nearest one. (ridiculous, i know)
so when it comes to soil, driving is cheaper than shipping.
i recently lost a whole crop to some shitty soil (i still have no idea exactly what it was, improper pH, too hot, who knows) called Vortex by lady bug. if you read what the description is it sounds pretty decent, but it was just a bad experience (source your shit!!).
so, with that in mind i want to stick with OF only because i know it will give me good results. i might try a different soil later, but until then it's going to be fox farm ocean forest.
so this might just be a slight rant, either way i'll be thumbing through the past posts on this thread for any info i missed.
i have a cousin who lives in cali and recently called him for some grow advice. he said he had never tried anything that was called vegan, but he himself grows very "clean organic weed with as little fertilizers and additives as possible". he recommended the bio canna products, and said that the flores and the bioboost were great. over the last few months i've grow a huge dislike to earth juice, i only use their microblast at this point. FF is okay with me but i'm willing to replace it for now.
although i don't have a good grow shop near me, by that i mean i have to drive 500miles to the nearest one. (ridiculous, i know)
so when it comes to soil, driving is cheaper than shipping.
i recently lost a whole crop to some shitty soil (i still have no idea exactly what it was, improper pH, too hot, who knows) called Vortex by lady bug. if you read what the description is it sounds pretty decent, but it was just a bad experience (source your shit!!).
so, with that in mind i want to stick with OF only because i know it will give me good results. i might try a different soil later, but until then it's going to be fox farm ocean forest.
so this might just be a slight rant, either way i'll be thumbing through the past posts on this thread for any info i missed.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Rants welcome.
I mentioned Humboldt Nutrients new mix, which is fecal coliform free. Not sure about how easy that is to find. But the fact they put that on the label is just another indicator of how many people are thinking like we are.
I've always liked the Ocean Forest, and still use it for my non-vegan grows. I am more concerned with the food that we are adding in heavy amounts than the low level of organic precharge in the soil. Most of what is in the mix is used up by the time you are flowering. Vegan organics in fox farm ocean forest!? sounds great.
threefiftyse7en
Active Member
Adonai seeds I CAN'T WAIT!! Words can't explain how seriously smooth, TASTY, and absolutely CHRRRONIC veganically grown nugs are. I've also tried some venganic Grape Ape and Blue Dream that just phukken killer too!
On my way now to grab some BioTerraPlus Soil and BioVega/Flores and a few other goodies to try out.
Thanks so much for starting up a thread on veganics. Been around the forum a while now, but nothing has really interested me as much as this subject. Good work bro!
btw... the blackberry nuggets looked pretty damn tasty too! I've a few BBK's going now too. love that strain!
I CAN'T WAIT!! Words can't explain how seriously smooth, TASTY, and absolutely CHRRRONIC veganically grown nugs are. I've also tried some venganic Grape Ape and Blue Dream that just phukken killer too! On my way now to grab some BioTerraPlus Soil and BioVega/Flores and a few other goodies to try out.
Thanks so much for starting up a thread on veganics. Been around the forum a while now, but nothing has really interested me as much as this subject. Good work bro!
btw... the blackberry nuggets looked pretty damn tasty too! I've a few BBK's going now too. love that strain!
Nullis
Moderator
"...with supplementation by teas, microbes, molasses, humic/fulvic, seaweed, enzymes, and other some other stuff that includes a little bat guano (because I am not a purist to that degree)."
And there is nothing new or revolutionary about this. It would be nice if more people grew like this commercially, sure, but the whole notion of 'plant-based' organics seems pretty subjective to me. Whilst going on about the so-called risks associated with some animal by-product derived fertilizers (still largely unsubstantiated), the big picture here has yet to be ascertained. Animal by-products and wastes are an important part of the soil-food web in the natural world, and plenty of waste-derived fertilizers stimulate and feed soil microbes indoors and out.
Plenty of soil components are not derived from animals or plants; such as greensand, gypsum, rock phosphates, and epsom salts. Some are more indirectly a result of plants/animals from hundreds of years ago, substantially decomposed and fossilized (such as certain guanos).
Still there is the issue that in nature decomposition itself is either a direct or indirect result of - animals! Animals contribute to the decomposition of organic matter in various ways. Some just by helping to break up dead organic (plant/animal) matter to be further decomposed; perhaps by other animals, or passed on to the fungi and prokaryotic organisms that finish the process.
These animals: the detritivores, are a significant help to the other micro-organisms that contribute to decomposition. The best known example of a detritivore would be worms, such as earthworms. Others include nematodes, springtails, mites, millipedes, centipedes, beetles, slugs and snails. All or some of these critters can be found in your outdoor compost pile; even if you put nothing but plant materials in your compost. All of those animals, and eventually their excrement and carcasses are nurturing the other detrivores and micro-organisms as the cycle continues. Ultimately, the soil food web is just too complex to say that what is in there could be 99% plant based. I would go so far as to say that attempting to force it be that way is bordering on unnatural.
As an aside, are you aware how cows digest their food? They cannot directly break down cellulose in the plants that they eat. Cows are ruminant herbivores, they have a four-chambered stomach and the first stomach is the rumen. Inside the rumen is where the masticated plant material becomes further broken down and exposed to bacteria primarily. It is joined by the reticulum; containing bacteria, fungi, protozoa and other microbes. Collectively referred to as the reticulorumen, inside this organ is where the process of microbial fermentation is carried out resulting in carbohydrates and volatile fatty acids.
After passing through the omasum, the materials and the microbes flow into the abomasum (true stomach) which is a much more acidic environment than the reticulorumen. Due to the pH change the microbes are killed and themselves digested, providing the cow with the majority of its nutrition. Whatever plant matter residues remain undigested after passing through the intestines are obviously excreted. After that, and possibly mixing with other materials, the aforementioned detritivores go to work and help other organisms continue the cycle; putting the nutrients back into the soil and turning that crap into humus.
But if all plant based components is what you desire, it wouldn't be very difficult to take a gander at one of the various lists of organic materials used for feeding plants. Asses the N-P-K, see what secondary and trace nutrients are present, how available they are and what they do for microbial populations. Put a list together and then decide whether you want to 'spoil' it all by adding worm castings (animal poo), kitchen compost (plethora of miniature animal poos and carcasses) or fossilized guano (mineralized poo).
And there is nothing new or revolutionary about this. It would be nice if more people grew like this commercially, sure, but the whole notion of 'plant-based' organics seems pretty subjective to me. Whilst going on about the so-called risks associated with some animal by-product derived fertilizers (still largely unsubstantiated), the big picture here has yet to be ascertained. Animal by-products and wastes are an important part of the soil-food web in the natural world, and plenty of waste-derived fertilizers stimulate and feed soil microbes indoors and out.
Plenty of soil components are not derived from animals or plants; such as greensand, gypsum, rock phosphates, and epsom salts. Some are more indirectly a result of plants/animals from hundreds of years ago, substantially decomposed and fossilized (such as certain guanos).
Still there is the issue that in nature decomposition itself is either a direct or indirect result of - animals! Animals contribute to the decomposition of organic matter in various ways. Some just by helping to break up dead organic (plant/animal) matter to be further decomposed; perhaps by other animals, or passed on to the fungi and prokaryotic organisms that finish the process.
These animals: the detritivores, are a significant help to the other micro-organisms that contribute to decomposition. The best known example of a detritivore would be worms, such as earthworms. Others include nematodes, springtails, mites, millipedes, centipedes, beetles, slugs and snails. All or some of these critters can be found in your outdoor compost pile; even if you put nothing but plant materials in your compost. All of those animals, and eventually their excrement and carcasses are nurturing the other detrivores and micro-organisms as the cycle continues. Ultimately, the soil food web is just too complex to say that what is in there could be 99% plant based. I would go so far as to say that attempting to force it be that way is bordering on unnatural.
As an aside, are you aware how cows digest their food? They cannot directly break down cellulose in the plants that they eat. Cows are ruminant herbivores, they have a four-chambered stomach and the first stomach is the rumen. Inside the rumen is where the masticated plant material becomes further broken down and exposed to bacteria primarily. It is joined by the reticulum; containing bacteria, fungi, protozoa and other microbes. Collectively referred to as the reticulorumen, inside this organ is where the process of microbial fermentation is carried out resulting in carbohydrates and volatile fatty acids.
After passing through the omasum, the materials and the microbes flow into the abomasum (true stomach) which is a much more acidic environment than the reticulorumen. Due to the pH change the microbes are killed and themselves digested, providing the cow with the majority of its nutrition. Whatever plant matter residues remain undigested after passing through the intestines are obviously excreted. After that, and possibly mixing with other materials, the aforementioned detritivores go to work and help other organisms continue the cycle; putting the nutrients back into the soil and turning that crap into humus.
But if all plant based components is what you desire, it wouldn't be very difficult to take a gander at one of the various lists of organic materials used for feeding plants. Asses the N-P-K, see what secondary and trace nutrients are present, how available they are and what they do for microbial populations. Put a list together and then decide whether you want to 'spoil' it all by adding worm castings (animal poo), kitchen compost (plethora of miniature animal poos and carcasses) or fossilized guano (mineralized poo).
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
YES! Thanks so much. Sometimes the qualitative evidence is ahead of the quantitative. I know of all those batches of veganic goodness of which you speak. The Blue Dream was a first timer's run! AND it took 5th place in this years SF Canna-Cup, lol. Thanks for the BBK big ups. Posts like yours are giving me the confidence to get into the "out-there" theories I have about why the qualities you describe are true for vegan organics.Adonai seeds
On my way now to grab some BioTerraPlus Soil and BioVega/Flores and a few other goodies to try out.
Thanks so much for starting up a thread on veganics. Been around the forum a while now, but nothing has really interested me as much as this subject. Good work bro!
btw... the blackberry nuggets looked pretty damn tasty too! I've a few BBK's going now too. love that strain!
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Yeah, I know. Thanks. I admittedly pulled 99% out of my butt. And specifically studied this stuff in college, super specifically I studied the defensive toxic secretions of a Diplopoda sp. that lives in the woods on campus. And I've already covered repeatedly that this is not about going 100% vegan organic, but more about leaning hard in that direction. And vegan is merely a matter of perspective, as I covered from the start. And cows? Uhh...what? Who mentioned cows? You use cow dung?
The independent reviews have all been the same: "best, cleanest, smoothest...ever!"
Nullis
Moderator
Well this is Vegan Organics with Professor Matt "Veganics" Rize, isn't it? Just how 'vegan' does my grow have to be in order to qualify?
Can I get away with it being 72% vegan? Perhaps 66% vegan is adequate? The definition of your proposed concept is too blurred to mean anything.
If it is a mere matter of perception, then why label or sensationalize it as anything else? I would have to think that could tend to turn a lot of people away from your 'message'. If all you were advocating was awareness for and minimization of fertilizer risk/impact and for individuals to be more aware of/closer to the sources of their fertilizer/soil components (organic and otherwise), this thread would certainly have taken an entirely different direction.
So here I am uncertain as ever exactly what the heck you're talking about.
As for the independent "cleanest, smoooothest ever!" reviews:
I have this theory: considering that plant-based fertilizers would tend to be less potent than those derived from animal excreta, maybe the real problem is that people just like to over-feed for as long as they possibly can, thus their plants do not sufficiently exhaust nutrients prior to the harvest. Being less potent, one can feed copiously as usual but impact on flavor is lessened.
Cow would be an example of a ruminant herbivore; others include deer, llamas, goats, sheep, camels. Again missing the much bigger picture here, but I don't care if you ever get it. I only hope I have existed to contribute something of a saner more pragmatic nature for anyone else reading.
Can I get away with it being 72% vegan? Perhaps 66% vegan is adequate? The definition of your proposed concept is too blurred to mean anything.
If it is a mere matter of perception, then why label or sensationalize it as anything else? I would have to think that could tend to turn a lot of people away from your 'message'. If all you were advocating was awareness for and minimization of fertilizer risk/impact and for individuals to be more aware of/closer to the sources of their fertilizer/soil components (organic and otherwise), this thread would certainly have taken an entirely different direction.
So here I am uncertain as ever exactly what the heck you're talking about.
As for the independent "cleanest, smoooothest ever!" reviews:
I have this theory: considering that plant-based fertilizers would tend to be less potent than those derived from animal excreta, maybe the real problem is that people just like to over-feed for as long as they possibly can, thus their plants do not sufficiently exhaust nutrients prior to the harvest. Being less potent, one can feed copiously as usual but impact on flavor is lessened.
Cow would be an example of a ruminant herbivore; others include deer, llamas, goats, sheep, camels. Again missing the much bigger picture here, but I don't care if you ever get it. I only hope I have existed to contribute something of a saner more pragmatic nature for anyone else reading.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
Purity should be thought of as levels, shades of grey my friend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_certification
"In the US, federal organic legislation defines three levels of organics. Products made entirely with certified organic ingredients and methods can be labeled "100% organic". Products with at least 95% organic ingredients can use the word "organic". Both of these categories may also display the USDA organic seal. A third category, containing a minimum of 70% organic ingredients, can be labeled "made with organic ingredients". In addition, products may also display the logo of the certification body that approved them. Products made with less than 70% organic ingredients can not advertise this information to consumers and can only mention this fact in the product's ingredient statement. Similar percentages and labels apply in the EU.
And I totally agree with you about overfeeding with animal based organics, resulting in an under flush. Plus I see an issue with residues from animal products, that doesn't exist in plant organics.
If you want a number from me I'll pull 95% out of my butt because of how statistics views that number.
threefiftyse7en
Active Member
No problem bro. Thanks again for putting this out there. regardless of what any of the skeptics or haters say, you are clearly doing something right man. keep that shit up.
hey by chance do ya know where I could score those beans when they are released? Peace in Medicine maybe?
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
I will let you know as soon as possible. My guess is either peace, harborside, or buds n roses. But I really have no idea.
threefiftyse7en
Active Member
sweet! I'll be anxiously waiting for that release. now - time for some bong hits of some NONveganic blue dream 
haha
Take care man
hahaTake care man