Veg light upgrade question

booms111

booms111

Well-Known Member
I'm switching out a 600mh digilux(75k lumes) in a magnum xxxl hood to either four qb132 4k running at 300 watts or two 288 4k boards at 300watts. The veg room is 4.5 x 4.5 and only used for veg. I like plants to be about 30inchs tall(flower room is tree style) with 6-8 tops in 5 gallons when ready to go to bloom room and everything is done perpetual grow style.

Im leaning towards the 132 boards for better distribution of light but not 100% sure they can get the plants as big as I'm use to with the 600mh. I don't see much discussion on just veg rooms so I'm hoping to get some advise on setup?

Side note I have a small genetic test tent I'm using at moment that's in veg stage, had two 324v1 boards in it that are 2850k running at only 125watts total. Just like when I used my 132qbs for veg that are 2700k the plants did horrible in veg compared to 4k-6k color spectrum metal halides. Under the 2700k and 2850k the plants get a thick lettuce look and darker green then should be. Switched out the 324 boards with a 4000k 120qb and in 3 days the plants took off and look exactly like they should color and leaf look wise.
 
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TEKNIK

TEKNIK

Well-Known Member
My customers love 4k cri 90 for veg. What you need is a dialux simulation to see exactly how things will work. I have asked HLG to send me boards to test and create IES files but they don't seem to want to know about it and think I want free lights.
I am not willing to purchase lights to give free information out to people, ask HLG for an IES file as I know they have done goniometer tests and I will be able to help you see exactly how things will work before making a purchase.
 
coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
Why the change Booms?
I used to flower with 90cri cobs and 3000k QBs and veg with 600w MH in a 4x4 in winter and 315cmh in summer.
Now ive shrunk my operation down and using the 4k QB (v2 260w) for veg. I like it so far. But I still love the cmh which was actually the flowering spectrum but vegged amazingly in a 4x4.
 
booms111

booms111

Well-Known Member
coreywebster said:
Why the change Booms?
I used to flower with 90cri cobs and 3000k QBs and veg with 600w MH in a 4x4 in winter and 315cmh in summer.
Now ive shrunk my operation down and using the 4k QB (v2 260w) for veg. I like it so far. But I still love the cmh which was actually the flowering spectrum but vegged amazingly in a 4x4.
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Figure 300 less watts 18 hours a day I can use somewhere else(just installed a mini split ac figure less of a hit on bill), sucks cleaning the glass on hood, going led would stop buying a bulb once a year at $70, and the digilux bulbs i prefer have been discontinued. Only other MH 600 I've found that puts out light like the digilux is genesis 600 with both putting out 75k lumes.

Seems other light sources like hps and CMH when in wrong color spectrum can produce healthier plants then quantum leds in wrong spectrum when plants are started under them. I've had hps veg nice plants in past but ive switched mid veg from MH to hps due to bulb failure before and it really hurts there general health until back under a MH or stuck into bloom cycle.
 
Pa-Nature

Pa-Nature

Well-Known Member
LED lighting is becoming increasingly popular to use in buildings and for good reason: they have a long life, are highly energy efficient, can be dimmed, and produce a low amount of heat and no UV rays.

There’s one common misconception surrounding LED lighting, however. Many believe that LEDs work the same up until the lights go out. In reality, though, LED lighting slowly loses its brightness, many times unbeknownst to the building user. Unlike fluorescent lamps that will completely fail (which makes it easy to tell when a light needs replaced), LEDs don’t go out completely, so you’re left to people’s perceptions.

LED Rating System
Like all other lighting, the rating system of LEDs is an estimate of the amount of hours a bulb will burn before it needs to be replaced. The tricky thing with LEDs is that their lifespan is determined to end when the bulb can only achieve 70% of their initial lighting output. The bulb will slowly continue to depreciate until the user finally figures it out and replaces it.

Light Meter
If you’re having trouble determining whether or not an LED light has reached the end of its lifespan, it’s best to use a light meter. Light meters generally range from $50-$300 based upon what you need them to measure.

The video below, by Aurora Lighting, has some great illustrations which should help further illustrate how the lifespan of LEDs work:

So with that being said replacing an HPS or mh every year seems to be about the same cost as replaceing BOARD/LIGHTS due to degradation ?
Please correct me if Im wrong ,
 
TEKNIK

TEKNIK

Well-Known Member
Pa-Nature said:
LED lighting is becoming increasingly popular to use in buildings and for good reason: they have a long life, are highly energy efficient, can be dimmed, and produce a low amount of heat and no UV rays.

There’s one common misconception surrounding LED lighting, however. Many believe that LEDs work the same up until the lights go out. In reality, though, LED lighting slowly loses its brightness, many times unbeknownst to the building user. Unlike fluorescent lamps that will completely fail (which makes it easy to tell when a light needs replaced), LEDs don’t go out completely, so you’re left to people’s perceptions.

LED Rating System
Like all other lighting, the rating system of LEDs is an estimate of the amount of hours a bulb will burn before it needs to be replaced. The tricky thing with LEDs is that their lifespan is determined to end when the bulb can only achieve 70% of their initial lighting output. The bulb will slowly continue to depreciate until the user finally figures it out and replaces it.

Light Meter
If you’re having trouble determining whether or not an LED light has reached the end of its lifespan, it’s best to use a light meter. Light meters generally range from $50-$300 based upon what you need them to measure.

The video below, by Aurora Lighting, has some great illustrations which should help further illustrate how the lifespan of LEDs work:

So with that being said replacing an HPS or mh every year seems to be about the same cost as replaceing BOARD/LIGHTS due to degradation ?
Please correct me if Im wrong ,
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That is true to some point, LED's will be worth while over the lifetime if you pay alot for electricity, the way these common boards are now there is a big factor noone considers when it comes to lifespan and that is contamination which degrades the lifespan on an led dramatically. Fluence is one company that has done things right from the beginning and covered all aspects of this. The boards you guys like on here are cheap so it's not a big deal to replace them, for DIY it's not bad but I wouldn't recommend them in a commercial environment no protection as that has changes everything. For DIY one big savings is on the heat and AC power if you need AC, there is alot to consider when spending upwards of $1500.
 
Pa-Nature

Pa-Nature

Well-Known Member
TEKNIK said:
That is true to some point, LED's will be worth while over the lifetime if you pay alot for electricity, the way these common boards are now there is a big factor noone considers when it comes to lifespan and that is contamination which degrades the lifespan on an led dramatically. Fluence is one company that has done things right from the beginning and covered all aspects of this. The boards you guys like on here are cheap so it's not a big deal to replace them, for DIY it's not bad but I wouldn't recommend them in a commercial environment no protection as that has changes everything. For DIY one big savings is on the heat and AC power if you need AC, there is alot to consider when spending upwards of $1500.
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Yea I could see me changing if I was deeply affected by heat or cost .
My thing is I use my lights to heat my house . Like my buddy said a watt is a lot of heat when running 5 k .
-40 my house furnace rarely kicks in with lights on .
I would like a set for summer time/Breeding as I CANT GROW OUTSIDE ...14 hrs of day light till its -10
 
TEKNIK

TEKNIK

Well-Known Member
Pa-Nature said:
Yea I could see me changing if I was deeply affected by heat or cost .
My thing is I use my lights to heat my house . Like my buddy said a watt is a lot of heat when running 5 k .
-40 my house furnace rarely kicks in with lights on .
I would like a set for summer time/Breeding as I CANT GROW OUTSIDE ...14 hrs of day light till its -10
Click to expand...
LED's do work and they work well. It depends on how you grow and what strain you grow also. This year is going to be a big year for LED's. The trend on this forum is price before all else. Don't always think a reputable brand actually knows what they are doing because they don't and price is the main concern for them.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
For me I have 12 x 1kW DE HPS and a bunch of SE side lighting. I would rather pay for a AC unit than a bunch of LED lights. My two 4 ton units costed me about 6k, if I were to replace my overhead lights at 1500 each it would cost me 3 times what the AC units cost. I look at electricity as you have to spend money to make money.
 
Hadez411

Hadez411

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
For me I have 12 x 1kW DE HPS and a bunch of SE side lighting. I would rather pay for a AC unit than a bunch of LED lights. My two 4 ton units costed me about 6k, if I were to replace my overhead lights at 1500 each it would cost me 3 times what the AC units cost. I look at electricity as you have to spend money to make money.
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Buying LEDs can be spending money to make money too...? If you're running more than 1KW of hps, you're going to save more in a 5 year period by going with LEDs. Now that blurple is almost done trashing the name of LED and full spectrum whites are a thing, it's a clear winner. When you factor in HPS bulb change outs and hydro bills, never mind additional AC units and the power they use, it's a sound investment in your bottom line. Just depends if you can get them cheap enough I guess or if you have savings/budget available. Diy is definitely going to be better, but you may need to get a certification for your builds if you need to insure your facility.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Hadez411 said:
Buying LEDs can be spending money to make money too...? If you're running more than 1KW of hps, you're going to save more in a 5 year period by going with LEDs. When you factor in HPS bulb change outs and hydro bills, never mind additional AC units and the power they use, it's a sound investment in your bottom line.
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It's easy for me to say since I have a fully tuned setup that puts out well for me.
 
Hadez411

Hadez411

Well-Known Member
Pa-Nature said:
Yea I could see me changing if I was deeply affected by heat or cost .
My thing is I use my lights to heat my house . Like my buddy said a watt is a lot of heat when running 5 k .
-40 my house furnace rarely kicks in with lights on .
I would like a set for summer time/Breeding as I CANT GROW OUTSIDE ...14 hrs of day light till its -10
Click to expand...
You can't do the old black bag trick?
 
OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
For me I have 12 x 1kW DE HPS and a bunch of SE side lighting. I would rather pay for a AC unit than a bunch of LED lights. My two 4 ton units costed me about 6k, if I were to replace my overhead lights at 1500 each it would cost me 3 times what the AC units cost. I look at electricity as you have to spend money to make money.
Click to expand...
In your research have you found that most making the LED switch also needed to increase their dehumidification strategy? Not much cheaper than running an A/C in most circumstances
 
TEKNIK

TEKNIK

Well-Known Member
If you have a set up you are happy with and know what you are going to always get out of things then I wouldn't encourage you to switch over, not just yet anyway. I like to sell products as much as the next guy but I'm not the sort of person to bullshit someone to get a sale.
 
Hadez411

Hadez411

Well-Known Member
OneHitDone said:
In your research have you found that most making the LED switch also needed to increase their dehumidification strategy? Not much cheaper than running an A/C in most circumstances
Click to expand...
Is that a problem most people would have or just those in high humidity areas? I'm guessing that you'd just fan more if the exterior humidity was less than your target.

Maybe just add co2 instead ;) allows for more humidity is what I read.
 
TEKNIK

TEKNIK

Well-Known Member
I honestly don't believe enough proper research has been done regarding lighting and plants reactions to light. It takes a very long time to do it and it needs to be all done in a fully controlled environment. I even think that the standard PAR measurement is way out as it doesn't add up to me. I think an entire new standard of measurement needs to come in to replace PAR
 
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