which is basically what im doing. im doing 4 per 3x3 with a few weeks veg im also somewhat restricted on height because the tray is on a stand above the res which is why i like the idea of a scrog but im going to just try the 7" pot and the 8" pot see how muchof a difference there is... hey i had one last question though, is there any good recent studies or posts from reputable people you could link me to that explains what exactly the plants are looking for/need at the different stages of flower as far as nutrients and npk ratios?
veg+bloom constant mag deficiency
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im4satori
Well-Known Member
i have saved up bits and pieces on a flash drive that i collected years and years ago but i haven't looked at most of it and im not sure
i have a book that's advanced by j Benton jones
i thought the link at http://customhydronutrients.com/ under "important links"
would link you to it but it turns out it doesn't
heres a picture of the book
im4satori
Well-Known Member
Magnesium (Mg)
Content in Plants
Magnesium content in plant leaves will range from 0.20 to 0.50%, although Mg
content can be as high as 1.00% of the dry weight. The frequency of Mg
deficiency in hydroponically-grown crops may equal that of N as the result of
effects due to improper balance among the other major cations, Ca2+, K+, and
NH4
+. In addition, some plant species are more sensitive to Mg than others, that
sensitivity varying with stage of growth and environmental conditions.
48 Hydroponics: A Practical Guide for the Soilless Grower
Function
Magnesium is a major constituent of the chlorophyll molecule (Figure 5.1),
the substance in which photosynthesis takes place (see page 14). Magnesium
is also an enzyme activator for a number of important energy transfer processes.
Therefore, a deficiency will have serious impact on plant growth and
development. Magnesium is related to a specific enzymatic function particularly
associated with C3-type plants that when Mg is deficient, CO2 fixation is
reduced, and therefore the production of carbohydrates required for active
plant growth declines. Magnesium uptake, like Ca, tends to remain fairly
constant with time, but it differs from Ca in that Mg is more mobile in the
plant. While Ca is mobile only in the zylem, Mg is mobile in both the zylem
and phloem.
Deficiency Symptoms
Magnesium deficiency symptoms are quite distinct as an interveinal chlorosis
that appears first on the older leaves. Once a Mg deficiency occurs, it is very
difficult to correct, particularly if the deficiency occurs during the mid-point
of the growing season. In those plant species that have a high Mg requirement,
the deficiency may be triggered by various types of environmental and
physiological stress. Deficiency can result from an imbalance between K+ and
Mg2+, Ca2+ and Mg2+, or NH4
+ and Mg2+ cations. Of these cations, Mg2+ is the
least competitive for root absorption. The Ca2+ and Mn2+ cations show a
competitive effect on Mg2+ uptake and increased Ca2+ uptake ensures a
concentration of divalent ion capacity sufficient to maintain cation/anion
balance and proper functioning of physiological activity. When Mg is deficient,
the increased uptake of Mn2+ prevents total failure of the biochemical processes
of energy transfer, forestalling the collapse and death of plant cells.
The uptake of Mg shows a number of interactive effects, both synergistic
and antagonistic. An interesting side effect of Mg deficiency is a possible
increase in susceptibility to fungus disease infestation as well as the incidence
of blossom-end-rot (BER) of fruit.
Excess Symptoms
Under normal conditions, Mg excess is not likely to occur. However, some
investigators suggest that Mg concentrations in the nutrient solution, as well
as the plant, should not exceed that of Ca in order to maintain the proper
cation balance for best plant growth and development.
Accumulation in the Rooting Medium
With each application of a nutrient solution containing Mg and P to the rooting
medium, whether inorganic (sand, gravel, perlite, rookwool, etc.) or organic
The Essential Elements 49
(pinebark, coir, peat, etc.), a precipitation of Mg with P begins to occur,
forming in the rooting medium an ever increasing accumulation. Being colloidal
in physical form and in eminent contact with plant roots, a portion of
this precipitate is dissolved by root acidification and the released Mg and P
as well as other elements trapped in the precipitate provide a major source
for these elements for uptake and utilization. This partially explains why the
effect of applied nutrient solution on the composition of the plant with time
becomes less a reflection of the nutrient solution composition for most of the
precipitated elements, both major and micronutrient. although the common
recommended practice for control of the nutrient element content of the
growing medium, determined by EC measurements (see page 106), is periodic
water leaching, leaching that will not remove accumulated precipitates.
Concentration in a Nutrient Solution
Most hydroponic formulas call for Mg to be at a concentration around 50 mg/L
(ppm) in the nutrient solution, although that concentration may be too low to
meet the requirement for some crops, such as tomato and cucumber. Magnesium
is present in the nutrient solution as the divalent cation Mg2+.
Nutrient Solution Reagents
The primary reagent source for Mg is magnesium sulfate (MgSO4•7H2O). Natural
waters may contain a substantial quantity of Mg, as much as 50 mg/L (ppm).
Therefore, when preparing a nutrient solution, the quantity of Mg contributed
by the water should be determined so that the Mg concentration in the nutrient
solution does not exceed that recommended.
thanks im going to go to order a few books tomorrow i just want to make sure its all up to date information and not some bro-science type stuff but i was wondering because i run vegbloom and they have 2 different formulas for their nutes one is simple (formula on their packaging) at 4-5grams per gallon plus 1-2 grams per gallon of their bloom booster called "shine" but then they have a way more complex formula that seems way too strain specific plus its for a 9 week strain and all my strains finish in 8 weeks. heres the one on their tech page on instagram "Early flower to week 3 use SHINE 1g per gallon on top of base at our recommended dosage.
SHINE at 1.5 to 2g per gallon starting at week 4, slightly lower the base nutrient. Week 6 drop base 50% use SHINE at 2g per gallon until week 7, beginning at week 7 use straight SHINE at 1g per gallon until the last two days use pH'd water to flush. This is for a nine week strain"
im4satori
Well-Known Member
Chapter 11 Hydroponic Cropping
.................................................... 167
Introduction ............................................................................................................... 167
Progressive Developments......................................................................................... 172
Nutrient Solution Formulations and Their Use...................................................... 175
Cultivar/Variety Availability and Selection .............................................................. 175
Grower Skill and Competence .................................................................................. 176
Home Gardener/Hobby Hydroponic Grower.......................................................... 177
Outdoor Hydroponics ............................................................................................... 180
Hydroponic Crops ..................................................................................................... 181
Factors for Success ..................................................................................................... 182
Tomato (
Lycopersicon esculentum
Mill).................................................................... 187
Introduction................................................................................................... 187
Transplant Seedlings...................................................................................... 191
Grafting .......................................................................................................... 192
Crop Scheduling ............................................................................................ 193
Growing Containers and Medium ............................................................... 193
Plant Spacing.................................................................................................. 198
Cultural Plant Practices................................................................................. 200
Environmental Conditions............................................................................ 202
Water Requirement........................................................................................ 204
Flower Pollination.......................................................................................... 206
Fruit Development and Yield........................................................................ 209
Fruit Quality and Flavor ............................................................................... 210
Plant Nutrition............................................................................................... 213
Varieties (Cultivars) ....................................................................................... 219
Nutrient Solution........................................................................................... 220
pH .................................................................................................... 220
Electrical Conductivity (EC).......................................................... 221
Formulations ................................................................................... 223
Nutrient Element Accumulation in the Rooting Substrates ...................... 223
Organic Production....................................................................................... 225
Outdoor Hydroponics ................................................................................... 226
Disease and Insect Control ........................................................................... 228
xii
Hydroponics: A Practical Guide for the Soilless Grower
Summary ........................................................................................................ 231
Cucumber (
Cucumis sativus
L.)................................................................................ 232
Pepper, Bell Types (
Capsicum annum
L.) ................................................................ 240
Pepper, Chiles............................................................................................................. 243
Lettuce (
Lacturia
) ...................................................................................................... 245
Herbs........................................................................................................................... 252
Microgreens................................................................................................................ 256
Strawberry (
Fragaria x ananassa
)............................................................................. 256
Green Bean (Snap Bean) (
Phaseolus vulgaris
L.)..................................................... 261
Sweet Corn (
Zea mays
L. subsp.
mays
) .................................................................... 263
Okra [
Abelmoschus esculentus
(L.) Moench] ........................................................... 264
Melons ........................................................................................................................ 264
Other Types of Plants................................................................................................ 265
Summary for Hydroponically Grown Crops ........................................................... 267
Commonly Used Growing Systems.......................................................................... 269
Perlite Bag Culture System............................................................................ 269
Perlite Bucket Culture System....................................................................... 270
Rockwool Slab Culture System..................................................................... 270
The Ideal Hydroponic Growing System................................................................... 271
Commonly Used Nutrient Solutions ....................................................................... 272
Chapter 12 The Hydroponic Greenhouse
.......................................... 275
Greenhouse Defined .................................................................................................. 276
Location Factors......................................................................................................... 278
Basic Structural Design ............................................................................................. 280
Flooring ...................................................................................................................... 282
Glazing Materials ....................................................................................................... 284
Heating and Cooling ................................................................................................. 286
Heating ........................................................................................................... 286
Cooling ........................................................................................................... 289
Air Movement ............................................................................................................ 295
Plant Support System ................................................................................................ 295
Supplemental Lighting .............................................................................................. 295
Carbon Dioxide Enrichment .................................................................................... 298
Climatic Control ........................................................................................................ 303
Backup Systems.......................................................................................................... 303
Sanitation.................................................................................................................... 304
Proactive Management .............................................................................................. 305
Winter Greenhouse Preparation............................................................................... 305
Controlled Environment Agriculture (CEA)........................................................... 305
The Hobby Greenhouse ............................................................................................ 308
Solar Greenhouse....................................................................................................... 309
The Solviva Greenhouse............................................................................................ 311
The Ideal Greenhouse................................................................................................ 311
Common Errors Made in the Design and Operation of a Greenhouse ............... 312
Chapter 13
im4satori
Well-Known Member
im not sure if the books what your looking for or not
it is a bit technical
and its not a weed book it meant for garden plants
i copied a couple of the chapters from the index
it gives you all the ratios for vegies and herbs and such but it wont speak of weed directly
it is a bit technical
and its not a weed book it meant for garden plants
i copied a couple of the chapters from the index
it gives you all the ratios for vegies and herbs and such but it wont speak of weed directly
im4satori
Well-Known Member
id have to spend some time on it
theres nothing in the above text that tells me much about it
its probably best i look at one focused on mmj i dont mind technical as long as theres background/intro information at the beggining to make it easier to understand but heres the pics of their label, again the formula just seemed a bit technical and strain specific
- 4-5grams per gallon plus 1-2 grams per gallon of their bloom booste
- "Early flower to week 3 use SHINE 1g per gallon on top of base at our recommended dosage.
SHINE at 1.5 to 2g per gallon starting at week 4, slightly lower the base nutrient. Week 6 drop base 50% use SHINE at 2g per gallon until week 7, beginning at week 7 use straight SHINE at 1g per gallon until the last two days use pH'd water to flush. This is for a nine week strain"
im4satori
Well-Known Member
id say
they do a good job listing the info and all the elements are there
the mix is easy and looking at the npk numbers there spot on
the magnesium is low but that's easy to add espom salt
the dose of 4 to 5 grams is also in par
for bloom id mix
4grams base
2grams bloom booster (life)
1gram Epsom salt
for veg id mix
5 grams base
1gram Epsom salt
the only thing that I need to verify is the iron??
its hard to read, does that say 0.02%? cuz that's not even close to enough at all if it does?
they do a good job listing the info and all the elements are there
the mix is easy and looking at the npk numbers there spot on
the magnesium is low but that's easy to add espom salt
the dose of 4 to 5 grams is also in par
for bloom id mix
4grams base
2grams bloom booster (life)
1gram Epsom salt
for veg id mix
5 grams base
1gram Epsom salt
the only thing that I need to verify is the iron??
its hard to read, does that say 0.02%? cuz that's not even close to enough at all if it does?
yeah i believe its .02% and you would do that mix all throughout flower including during stretch and near harvest? the ratios dont need to be changed? itd be the same yield/quality staying with the same formula throughout the whole flower cycle right?
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
Is that 1% or 10% Calcium?its probably best i look at one focused on mmj i dont mind technical as long as theres background/intro information at the beggining to make it easier to understand but heres the pics of their label, again the formula just seemed a bit technical and strain specific
- 4-5grams per gallon plus 1-2 grams per gallon of their bloom booste
- "Early flower to week 3 use SHINE 1g per gallon on top of base at our recommended dosage.
SHINE at 1.5 to 2g per gallon starting at week 4, slightly lower the base nutrient. Week 6 drop base 50% use SHINE at 2g per gallon until week 7, beginning at week 7 use straight SHINE at 1g per gallon until the last two days use pH'd water to flush. This is for a nine week strain"
I thought this product was 4-5 gram per gallon?
At 4-5 gram per 5 gallon it is much more cost effective
Edit: Ignore my dumb ass misreading the #'s. It is 5g per gal on the base
Last edited:
im4satori
Well-Known Member
well then in that case I really really like this stuff
that's a nice amount of iron, much more than other brands which are commonly lacking
Ive done it both ways and Im fine with 1 mix from start of 12/12 to finish
but if you want to boost P and leach N switch to this for late bloom
3grams base
3grams bloom booster
1gram epsom
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
I can build 4 plants in 5-6 weeks in hydro to fill a 5x5.
My current method is Top for 4 main branches, pull them down, tip them as needed to keep 4 main growing shoots - then top them each to form 2 tops. Hopefully getting 8 semi even tops in the end. Sorta mainline but not exact as I grow from clone and it's impossible to get that symmetry
im4satori
Well-Known Member
yes?
word thanks man. i recently just started paying attention to vpd as well and im thinking of starting to use bennies and mycos instead of a sterile res so maybe these things will boost my setup even more but i wanted to say thank you again youve seriously been a ton of help!!
looks good man, im basically looking for a canopy like this with the scrog net. ironically hes using rockwool cubes
im4satori
Well-Known Member
any time
