nachooo
Well-Known Member
Yes..and it worked nicely thanks to @Randomblame previous clever advices
UV Suppliment Lighting
- Thread starter DrGreenT420
- Start date
end_of_the_tunnel
Well-Known Member
Maybe not ideal for your situation, but thought I would put this out there. If space and other factors are favourable, then maybe a jerry-rigged mover running a bar or tubes over the length of flower area. The bar/tube could be close to canopy and moving, so would have little impact on main light falling on flowers.
If you are using tables or trays, floor/tray mounted rather than roof mounted option makes sense.
Some type of budget rail from angle or Z extrusion, with power cable/flex encased in cheap cable chain. The rails do not have to be expensive or over engineered, as its a simple mover - not a cnc router mill.
Using the formulas/example posted above, by randomblame, it should be straight forward to have the uv led array or tube running back and forth delivering the required radiation.
Those cheap 28BYJ-48 motors, and an arduino nano could be a cheap option for an experiment. Not sure what would be right for transmitting the movement though. Friction fit drive wheel like original light movers, or just some simple spool and twine to pull the arrangement back and forth.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's a good question.
You can use these wavelengths and you'll for sure see some effects but the thc boost will be relatively low, maybe a few %.
These purple wavelength has some signaling effects you maybe know from blue light. It helps to keep the plant short and bushy, it promotes root growth and the plants develope a thick trunk and many sturdy branches. All this effects you can also see from adding more blue light.
But you'll also find smaller leaves which look darker because of a higher chlorophyll density and the plants will start to change their smell because they remodulate the terpene profile and will smell stronger. You'll also find increased antioxidants, vitamins and they taste stronger, also the color change is more intense. For all this reasons pro gardeners use these purple and UVA wavelengths for kitchen herbs like blue/purple basil.
Food in general have higher nutrient levels and more healthy ingredients and tastes much better when plants get the full spectrum incl. UVA and B. For instance for tomatoes it makes a big difference. Believe it or not, lab tests have shown up to 40% less nutriens in modern greenhouse crops compared to outdoor grown crops and that's a big problem already.
As you can see a lot of things happen in this area of the spectrum and adding some purple light should have positiv effects on the quality and a slightly effect on thc. The bulbs are okay but the spot lights don't have enough coverage.
It would make more sense to add just a few purple/near UVA 390 - 430nm diodes and let them run all day long. There is no damaging effect from using too much but those bulbs need much too much energy to use them all day long. You can try it with a few hours per day and see if it makes a difference but you already have the T8 fixtures so why not changing the bulbs?
You could either use a T8 reptile bulb made for desert living reptiles(10% or more) or you use something stronger. Solarcure should have a T8 version of their flowerpower bulbs which would fit exactly and reptile bulbs in T8 are widely available. Not that efficient but if you use a 10 or 12% UVB bulb for 2-6h per day it should work.
I've used 12% Arcadia T5's and they actually work pretty good. Needs more time compared to the stronger bulbs but therefor they do not harm the plants as much as the stronger bulbs can do.
You would see all the effects mentioned above plus up to 30% higher thc values cause this bulbs have a really wide UV/blue spectrum covering 295-460nm. 40% is UV and the rest is just visible light. With such a bulb a 10% skunk could finish with up to 13% for example and such a reptile bulb costs around 20 bucks. So is it worth testing it?
And don"t worry about degradation.
I'm using my Arcadia's since 3 years (actually only 2, last year I've made an "unwanted break") and have tested them using my smart UV checker. It measures the UV-index and I've compared a brand new bulb with a used one I've use for exact 5 runs. So at least 70 days times 5, 2_6h per day and the bulb has still 2,1 UVI compared to the 2,6 initial output of a brand new one.
That's only ~20% less and I further use them; just a for 2,5-7,5h instead of 2-6.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Since i build for my growbuddy who seems to be followed by murphys law everywhere he goes (really, you dont know how bad this shit is) i wont get into mechanical stuff. But aa uv light mover might be a good idea, i just prefer the versatility in some diodes that you can spread and time in any way youd like.
dirtyoldb
Well-Known Member
Use my UVB/UVA for 2 hours after dark cycle.
Arcadia 55w D3+ UV Flood 12% UVB 30% UVA Reptile T5 Lamp
Representing sunrise effect.
Run for the first hour UVB lamp only, then I turn up the main lights gradually over next hour to around 60% of the dimmer.
They are on a programmable dimmer.
After the 2 hours the UVB bulb switches off.
Main LED lights at 60% then increase gradually till peak at plants "midday" .
Flowering use them constantly for last 1 week to 2 weeks.
As close as I can get them, as UVB is only optimal at a very short range with this bulb. In an individual tent. Moving uvb light round each side each day till ready.
Arcadia 55w D3+ UV Flood 12% UVB 30% UVA Reptile T5 Lamp
Representing sunrise effect.
Run for the first hour UVB lamp only, then I turn up the main lights gradually over next hour to around 60% of the dimmer.
They are on a programmable dimmer.
After the 2 hours the UVB bulb switches off.
Main LED lights at 60% then increase gradually till peak at plants "midday" .
Flowering use them constantly for last 1 week to 2 weeks.
As close as I can get them, as UVB is only optimal at a very short range with this bulb. In an individual tent. Moving uvb light round each side each day till ready.
Lockedin
Well-Known Member
@Randomblame & @dirtyoldb
Great answers, Thanks!
That's what I figured with the 405nm. They're 6.8w cumulatively, maybe if I had more of them I'd integrate them into a build.
As far as the reptile lights go - I might give them a go on one plant to see if it finishes better than her sisters.
That will happen in a couple months - they're babies right now.
Great answers, Thanks!
That's what I figured with the 405nm. They're 6.8w cumulatively, maybe if I had more of them I'd integrate them into a build.
As far as the reptile lights go - I might give them a go on one plant to see if it finishes better than her sisters.
That will happen in a couple months - they're babies right now.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
dirtyoldb
Well-Known Member
Shit better change my timer.In nature UVB is strongest in the middle of the day, not in the mornings/evenings.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Yeah, far reds for morning and end of day, UV for middle of the day, if you want to mimic nature. I don't have my UV come on until 4-hours into the light cycle, and then it's at 15 to 20 minutes on and 40 to 45 off each hour for 5 or 6 hour cycles the rest of the day.
end_of_the_tunnel
Well-Known Member
Interesting to see how grow lights are enhanced to simulate an exaggerated late summer dusk and dawn spectrum throughout the indoor 12 hr period.
What is also interesting, but is cut off in your example, is the fall off below 400nm. We can see that end clearer here.
What is the color of the sun?
The color of the sun is white. The sun emits all colors of the rainbow in approximately equal amounts and we call this combination white. That is w...
Lockedin
Well-Known Member
Cool article. Sort left me thinking a lot of measurements are: "6 of this and half dozen of that" (the same but different)
Not sure how much this contributes to this convo, but in the studios, 5600k is "white".
During some downtime, our lighting director gave a clinic in mixing light. He started with Red, Blue, and Yellow, combined the spots on the floor and made white. He did it again with Cyan, Magenta, and Green (IIRC). A lot more to it htan that, but that part seems
Point is, "white" can be made a with many different combos - my VA-1200 makes "white", but the green / yellow end of the spectrum is missing - hence the unnatural look.
Not sure how much this contributes to this convo, but in the studios, 5600k is "white".
During some downtime, our lighting director gave a clinic in mixing light. He started with Red, Blue, and Yellow, combined the spots on the floor and made white. He did it again with Cyan, Magenta, and Green (IIRC). A lot more to it htan that, but that part seems
Point is, "white" can be made a with many different combos - my VA-1200 makes "white", but the green / yellow end of the spectrum is missing - hence the unnatural look.
end_of_the_tunnel
Well-Known Member
This plant is quite tolerant of various lights and their respective ratio of colour composition. But when we get below 400nm we should be judicious and approach with caution. The idea is to trigger a response that results in an increase in active plant compounds, without causing a stunting of overall growth.
Using light deprivation outdoors, to make the requisite 12 hours, would clones flowered to finish at the height of summer when uv radiation is at a peak be of poorer medicinal quality? Compared to clones put out later in season where lighting levels change and plants see different proportions of spectrum?
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
I'd have to say yes. There's a reason we use supplemental red and focus on it more in flower. Not only is it what flowering girls want, but it's what comes through in the later fall months, too.
end_of_the_tunnel
Well-Known Member
But what about medicinal qualities and terpenes? I am also biased towards earlier finishing that is brought on with the reds. The whole grow light industry is.
I wonder if anyone has done a comparison of medicinal quality of a light dep crop timed to finish around peak of summer versus late planted crop, like I asked in my post above?
If we get back to the UV component, sure I read somewhere that exposing plants to gradual diminishing quantity of the UV bands of the spectrum results in, effectively, a net zero effect.
Compared to starting off with low levels of UV radiation, and then gradually increasing the UV. Probably read it somewhere in this thread or in an attached paper.
There is a lot going on with the plant, be it growing indoors or outside. There is always the possibility of temperature having an effect on production of compounds, and growers being fixated on attributing the increase or decrease to a spectrum change. When it could just as likely be, that the ambient temperature had some kind of impact.
There are a lot of dots to join.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
One thing is for certain, this plant has been growing with a decent and sometimes excessive amount of UV radiation for 1,000's of years. Only in the last 40 years or so has it been brought in doors and grown Without It. So I think doing everything possible to recreate what it's been used to dealing with outside, inside our setups is always going to be a good thing.
For YEARS it was thought UV was the vehicle for the creation of the THC compound within the trichomes head once it passed through the stalk and into the membrane, but that's obviously not how it is.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
So exciting was really hoping we'd see UV diodes instead though.
I have not read the whole thread ,in order to have a more complete picture of what was discussed about the effects of UV light on cannabis ,but since it has been somewhat of a “holy grail “ as long as I can remember ,there has been plenty of research in the past also .
At your post there are pretty interesting things stated .
Facts, actually .
In another relative thread I ‘ve read something about UVC lamps used .
That’s pretty weird ,because there’s absolutely no UVC reaching the surface of the Earth ,as it ...was blocked by the ozone layer of the atmosphere.Absolutely not a natural thing to irradiate the poor plants with UVC ...It will fry their cell DNA within minutes ...The effects won’t change using less power.Simply the affected area will be smaller.
Anyway ...
I’m not going to support that few watts of light within the region from 280 nm to 420 nm are not beneficial
to the quality of the final product.
But ,I’m going to unfold an alternative theory ,based on the spirit of your post.
Of course ,is not my theory ,not a creation of my mind.
It’s just that this alternative version of the UV tale seems to be neglected completely .
This theory dictates that the use of UV lights has a noticeable positive effect on the terpene,cannabinoid,flavonoid and other antioxidants that the plant produces ,but the difference is not
really to write home about .Tests and researches done at past ,revealed that the antioxidants increased in
total mass about 10%_if I remember correctly-(Edited) by increased trichome production .They concluded that UV supplementation is too much trouble ,
for the given final results.
Another interesting conclusion were that most probably it’s the actual genetics that play the first role when it comes to antioxidant profile and concentration.
Plants are already genetically prepared to deal with certain stress factors.
For some of those stress factors ,they will respond only if they are "triggered" ,like in the case of insect bites.
It costs a lot energy and resources to the plants to keep their active "defence systems against insect attack" operating all the time ,
without an actual threat.
From the other hand other stress factors are to be expected as definite .
Like UV radiation from the sun.
In this case the plants start the operation "UV radiation defence systems",from being still seedlings !
They expect that UV radiation will be there,no matter what !
When they do not find it there (like inside a grow tent with ordinary white LEDs ) ,
the "UV defence systems" start to " get a bit lazy",( energy and resource shavings= efficiency ) but it's only few months until life cycle is completed.
They do not have the amount of time needed to get "too lazy" or even shut down completely ..
Those thousands of years of adaptation & evolution must be doing the trick !
Which led to yet another set of questions ...
Researching further ,answers followed.
Genetic drift.
That’s where the most profound effects of UV light are to be found.
Breeding exotic plants at moderate climates will cause the species to genetically drift from really potent (simply put )to less potent,generation after generation.And that’s where UV lights come to the rescue.
Experiments have shown that not only
the genetic drift is inhibited with UV light supplementation , but from generation to generation exotic species from really potent went to
“are you nuts?” potent !
You can say it acts as a rather crude
method of genetic manipulation.
Using an external stress factor
( called “trigger” by the white collars),
to cause genetic mutations and then pick the “successful” ones.
With selective breeding methods along with “UV treatments” of alien to Earth’s natural environment output powers,
rumors say that they have bred plants with quite abnormal terpene and cannabinoid profiles.Something like
34% Δ9THC along with 13% THCV,for example.
Unfortunately ,those interesting theories which actually cost me quite few bucks to read about ,( paid for every research pdf ) got forever lost when my laptop was stolen .
Still ,they can be found on the web,I guess.
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Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Visuals signs are serrated edges of leaves clawing upwards and general bleaching to a lighter shade of green, this would take longer to happen and sometimes will happen even if you dont over do it. Ive not seen it with my own eyes but its been quoted here and there over threads around here and other forums by people i trust their judgement.