USA move closer to equality in wages

What will increasing the minimum accompish?

  • Make a lot of workers very happy, and boost the economy

  • Cost jobs and drive businesses into bankruptcy

  • Nothing


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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Well yeah but that's a different subject.

I believe you underestimate Bernie's ability to gain public support and thus wield enormous power.
The choice in the fall is a virtual lock to be between Hillary and Trump.

It does make a difference to Bernie which party controls the Senate regardless of who wins. A republican held Senate will be unfriendly to anything Bernie does to drag Hillary leftward. Also unfriendly towards Bernie's efforts to block Trump if Sandernistas like you succeed and make Trump the choice as Prez in the fall.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Nice idea. Wouldn't this work no matter who is in the Wow House?
No, with Trump in the W H, this would be defensive maneuver. With Hillary in the WH, it would put a congress full of centrist Democrats pulling Hillary to the leftward. Hillary has shown to be very adaptable when a clear message is given to her by the electorate.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I'm speaking of Mrs Clinton and her depressing similarity to the candidates of the right wing.
She's not anything like the list of GOP candidates this season. Why do you do that? It's bad enough to have an Eisenhower type presidential candidate from the Democratic party. But saying she's just like Trump makes you sound like somebody who doesn't know anything.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
She's not anything like the list of GOP candidates this season. Why do you do that? It's bad enough to have an Eisenhower type presidential candidate from the Democratic party. But saying she's just like Trump makes you sound like somebody who doesn't know anything.
Then listen a little closer, friend; there's another fucking financial catastrophe looming directly ahead, and the only way for our ship of state to avert it is to CHANGE DIRECTION. Mrs Clinton isn't gonna spin the wheel and the Republican party wants to chain it in place.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Then listen a little closer, friend; there's another fucking financial catastrophe looming directly ahead, and the only way for our ship of state to avert it is to CHANGE DIRECTION. Mrs Clinton isn't gonna spin the wheel and the Republican party wants to chain it in place.
I'm listening and we usually have some good discussions, even agree most of the time. Ms Clinton has shown she will adapt when the electorate shows her the way. Unfortunately, one of those changes she made was to abandon the universal health care initiative. She was practically the face of that initiative when it went down in flames. Now what do we hear? Universal healthcare coverage will never happen. I'd say she can and does spin the wheel when her career is threatened. Bernie is certainly shaking things up and already seeing results from his failed but impressive bid for the WH. Hillary needs Bernie supporters to vote for her and she's not going to let her last chance at the WH to slip away simply because of some right wing principles that she never really showed much enthusiasm for. She's spinning the wheel as we debate or so I think based upon what I've read..

This idea that we have to CHANGE DIRECTION, tell me, what does that mean and what, between now and say August can be done to do so? It would have to be a massive movement to make any difference other than to ensure Trump's victory. Larger even than the numbers shown in the primary races.

And please don't say it doesn't make a difference.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I'm listening and we usually have some good discussions, even agree most of the time. Ms Clinton has shown she will adapt when the electorate shows her the way. Unfortunately, one of those changes she made was to abandon the universal health care initiative. She was practically the face of that initiative when it went down in flames. Now what do we hear? Universal healthcare coverage will never happen. I'd say she can and does spin the wheel when her career is threatened. Bernie is certainly shaking things up and already seeing results from his failed but impressive bid for the WH. Hillary needs Bernie supporters to vote for her and she's not going to let her last chance at the WH to slip away simply because of some right wing principles that she never really showed much enthusiasm for. She's spinning the wheel as we debate or so I think based upon what I've read..

This idea that we have to CHANGE DIRECTION, tell me, what does that mean and what, between now and say August can be done to do so? It would have to be a massive movement to make any difference other than to ensure Trump's victory. Larger even than the numbers shown in the primary races.

And please don't say it doesn't make a difference.
We barely squeaked out of the last great crash, and it took half of Mr Obama's presidency to recover- and in many ways, our prosperity still isn't what it was, certainly not for those below the 90th percentile.

Worse, basically none of the forces that propelled us off the cliff in '07 have been effectively controlled and many of the contributing factors have actually worsened; wage stagnation, income polarization, regulatory capture and even outright policy control of government by business, big banks got BIGGER and their stress and means tests were silly parlor games. There's much more, this just scratches the surface.

I think another Great Crash and Depression are coming, and we can pretty much guarantee more warfare. It's too profitable for those running our country!

Since they haven't been dealt with, all these issues are gonna come roaring back and bite us. Again.

Are you doing better than your folks did at your age? I'm not. Most people I know aren't, and I live in a very egalitarian and economically robust city and state. Why not? Because our prosperity has been stolen from us by three generations of supply siders, who gave the rich tax breaks and the middle class cracks to fall through and no safety net to catch them.

Our middle class is all but gone, replaced by either tech jobs for those with skills and education- but little job security, or service jobs for those who don't... and even less security.

...And fuck your retirement, they stole that decades ago, and America's population continues to age.

What's their answer? Buy up the media outlets, play machine politics games with the primary and electoral process and continue to place candidates they trust to do their bidding into positions of power, from the top down.

That isn't a solution, any more than plugging the vent on the pressure cooker will solve its noise problem.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
I guess you and I heard the same things but concluded differently. I don't hear Bernie say he wants to be vp in this clip. He's saying Hillary needs a liberal partner on the ticket to draw in the supporters that are backing him.
Someone exactly like him
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
We barely squeaked out of the last great crash, and it took half of Mr Obama's presidency to recover- and in many ways, our prosperity still isn't what it was, certainly not for those below the 90th percentile.

Worse, basically none of the forces that propelled us off the cliff in '07 have been effectively controlled and many of the contributing factors have actually worsened; wage stagnation, income polarization, regulatory capture and even outright policy control of government by business, big banks got BIGGER and their stress and means tests were silly parlor games. There's much more, this just scratches the surface.

I think another Great Crash and Depression are coming, and we can pretty much guarantee more warfare. It's too profitable for those running our country!

Since they haven't been dealt with, all these issues are gonna come roaring back and bite us. Again.

Are you doing better than your folks did at your age? I'm not. Most people I know aren't, and I live in a very egalitarian and economically robust city and state. Why not? Because our prosperity has been stolen from us by three generations of supply siders, who gave the rich tax breaks and the middle class cracks to fall through and no safety net to catch them.

Our middle class is all but gone, replaced by either tech jobs for those with skills and education- but little job security, or service jobs for those who don't... and even less security.

...And fuck your retirement, they stole that decades ago, and America's population continues to age.

What's their answer? Buy up the media outlets, play machine politics games with the primary and electoral process and continue to place candidates they trust to do their bidding into positions of power, from the top down.

That isn't a solution, any more than plugging the vent on the pressure cooker will solve its noise problem.
So your solution is to let Trump in the white house?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
We barely squeaked out of the last great crash, and it took half of Mr Obama's presidency to recover- and in many ways, our prosperity still isn't what it was, certainly not for those below the 90th percentile.

Worse, basically none of the forces that propelled us off the cliff in '07 have been effectively controlled and many of the contributing factors have actually worsened; wage stagnation, income polarization, regulatory capture and even outright policy control of government by business, big banks got BIGGER and their stress and means tests were silly parlor games. There's much more, this just scratches the surface.

I think another Great Crash and Depression are coming, and we can pretty much guarantee more warfare. It's too profitable for those running our country!

Since they haven't been dealt with, all these issues are gonna come roaring back and bite us. Again.

Are you doing better than your folks did at your age? I'm not. Most people I know aren't, and I live in a very egalitarian and economically robust city and state. Why not? Because our prosperity has been stolen from us by three generations of supply siders, who gave the rich tax breaks and the middle class cracks to fall through and no safety net to catch them.

Our middle class is all but gone, replaced by either tech jobs for those with skills and education- but little job security, or service jobs for those who don't... and even less security.

...And fuck your retirement, they stole that decades ago, and America's population continues to age.

What's their answer? Buy up the media outlets, play machine politics games with the primary and electoral process and continue to place candidates they trust to do their bidding into positions of power, from the top down.

That isn't a solution, any more than plugging the vent on the pressure cooker will solve its noise problem.
There is a recession in the works but nothing like what we just went through at least that's how I see it. China is in a bind due to slower growth and it will cause deflation that will affect other parts of the world. This will cause a shortage of cash because banks actually make money by not lending it. A series of defaults would send us into a real crisis but lending to this point hasn't approached anything like the mania we experienced in 2004-2007. So I don't see a big risk of imminent collapse. I wouldn't mind hearing your explanation for why you see a financial crisis coming soon.

In any case, it was a Democrat who reacted correctly to the last recession. I can't imagine what Trump would have done but I don't think he has the intelligence to navigate waters like this without wrecking the ship like Bush did.

You still haven't answered my question of what "Change Direction" means in terms of the upcoming election. What realistic actions do you suggest that would put Bernie in the WH in 2017?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
There is a recession in the works but nothing like what we just went through at least that's how I see it. China is in a bind due to slower growth and it will cause deflation that will affect other parts of the world. This will cause a shortage of cash because banks actually make money by not lending it. A series of defaults would send us into a real crisis but lending to this point hasn't approached anything like the mania we experienced in 2004-2007. So I don't see a big risk of imminent collapse. I wouldn't mind hearing your explanation for why you see a financial crisis coming soon.

In any case, it was a Democrat who reacted correctly to the last recession. I can't imagine what Trump would have done but I don't think he has the intelligence to navigate waters like this without wrecking the ship like Bush did.

You still haven't answered my question of what "Change Direction" means in terms of the upcoming election. What realistic actions do you suggest that would put Bernie in the WH in 2017?
You've asked me to discuss realistic alternatives in an insane and artificial situation. Can't do it.

I just want to see Mr Sanders in the oval office and while there's at least a snowball's chance I'm going to advocate for it.
 
Discussion has just been officially settled. McD CEO announced that we are wasting our time talking about $15 hr. They will be replacing employees with robots. He stated that it was cheaper to buy a $35000 robotic arm to flip burgers and bag fries than keep $20000 employees that are giving the bare minimum. I was talking to a couple engines over the weekend about how easy it would be to turn McD into a vending machine for fresh burgers, fries and drinks without the shitty attitude or thick accent.
 

spandy

Well-Known Member
Discussion has just been officially settled. McD CEO announced that we are wasting our time talking about $15 hr. They will be replacing employees with robots. He stated that it was cheaper to buy a $35000 robotic arm to flip burgers and bag fries than keep $20000 employees that are giving the bare minimum. I was talking to a couple engines over the weekend about how easy it would be to turn McD into a vending machine for fresh burgers, fries and drinks without the shitty attitude or thick accent.

So basically a bunch of skillless adults fucked up a great side job/summer job for everyone else by demanding their burger flips be worth a living wage?

Gee, never saw that coming.
 

mynameisnobody

Well-Known Member
Discussion has just been officially settled. McD CEO announced that we are wasting our time talking about $15 hr. They will be replacing employees with robots. He stated that it was cheaper to buy a $35000 robotic arm to flip burgers and bag fries than keep $20000 employees that are giving the bare minimum. I was talking to a couple engines over the weekend about how easy it would be to turn McD into a vending machine for fresh burgers, fries and drinks without the shitty attitude or thick accent.
But whose going to spit on your burger?
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
So basically a bunch of skillless adults fucked up a great side job/summer job for everyone else by demanding their burger flips be worth a living wage?

Gee, never saw that coming.
Automation is inevitable whether the wage is $15/hour or $7.25/hour. Technology will advance even if wages don't, so eventually it'll be cheaper to replace every single minimum wage worker regardless of how much they make. People like you can either get on board with a universal basic income or you can roll the dice and try your best to protect your property from the waves of unemployed hungry people that will be trying to take it.
 

spandy

Well-Known Member
Automation is inevitable whether the wage is $15/hour or $7.25/hour. Technology will advance even if wages don't, so eventually it'll be cheaper to replace every single minimum wage worker regardless of how much they make. People like you can either get on board with a universal basic income or you can roll the dice and try your best to protect your property from the waves of unemployed hungry people that will be trying to take it.

You do realize that while you are talking about being hungry and stealing from people, the other side is fortifying their properties and working with others in their community to stop this exact scenario, right?

Most of them will consume themselves and each other before they leave the pavement.

Both sides are wasting their time though. This will never go down and people will just get back in line like they always do.
 
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