UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
as long as the race baiting kiddies are around, we sure will.
they clearly do not understand the difference between "standing your ground" and being the aggressor.
trayvan martin
- Thread starter UncleBuck
- Start date
they clearly do not understand the difference between "standing your ground" and being the aggressor.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
"I stood my ground in a brisk forward trajectory ..." cn
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
Not really , you're making an apples and oranges comparison. And one that varies on a state by state basis.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
true enough.
princessdrama doesn't have a leg to stand on in his attempts to portray the aggressor as 'standing his ground' so he talks about castle doctrines and cars on the interstate.
I did no such thing, I never even used the term, ***insert pic of strawman***
BWHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA.......YOU are accusing folks of constructing strawmen? Really?......wow.
MuyLocoNC
Well-Known Member
This is a tough one, I've bounced around emotionally since the report first came out. Initially, I was outraged. A skinny young man, looks like he's 12 in the picture they used, is killed while visiting a gated community that he does not normally reside in. Seems like an open and shut case of vigilantism by an overzealous property owner.
Now we have two witnesses (fact) that are unaffiliated with either party (fact) and did indeed see the young man beating the shit out of Zimmerman. I'm sorry if you aren't 100% up to date on the actual facts of the case because you watch the MSM, but thems the facts so far and they aren't debatable. Now add the more accurate photos that show this young man was 6'3", muscular and a football player, quite capable of being an aggressor. From there, the debate steams ahead.
I've read back from about page 43 and I sure hear a great deal of conjecture from those that want to see this creep hang, as I did in the beginning.
It really comes down to what happened immediately before the confrontation. As a property owner, he absolutely had the right to follow and question someone he didn't recognize and find out if they had a right to be inside his gated community. Even though some have laughably stated otherwise, you do not lose your right to claim self defense because you took the INEXCUSABLE step of speaking to another human being as they are walking in the neighborhood... absurd and ridiculous on it's face. If he assaulted or placed his hands on the young man in any way, then you have an argument. Maybe he did, do you even know... of course you don't.
If the young man did attack Zimmerman and was doing so to the point Zim felt his life was in danger, then the final determination will be, did Trayvon attack him just for talking to him or did Zimmerman assault/attack him first. It could go either way, Zim might be the asshole, looking for trouble and physically assaulted him, then had to use his firearm to get himself out of trouble. Or, this kid may have been a billy bad ass, didn't like this property owner talking to him and decided to fuck him up and got drilled for it. I have no idea, and neither do you.
For the record, I listened to the audio and it CLEARLY sounds like Zim says "fucking punks" not coons... frankly, I can't even remotely hear it that way. It's going to be interesting to see where it goes from here.
Since so many are guessing at what happened, my conjecture would be that Zim did initiate the confrontation with some kind of physical contact, most likely negating his right to use self defense as an excuse. But that's just a gut feeling and I have zero evidence to support it. If that's what happened, he's in deep shit.
Now we have two witnesses (fact) that are unaffiliated with either party (fact) and did indeed see the young man beating the shit out of Zimmerman. I'm sorry if you aren't 100% up to date on the actual facts of the case because you watch the MSM, but thems the facts so far and they aren't debatable. Now add the more accurate photos that show this young man was 6'3", muscular and a football player, quite capable of being an aggressor. From there, the debate steams ahead.
I've read back from about page 43 and I sure hear a great deal of conjecture from those that want to see this creep hang, as I did in the beginning.
It really comes down to what happened immediately before the confrontation. As a property owner, he absolutely had the right to follow and question someone he didn't recognize and find out if they had a right to be inside his gated community. Even though some have laughably stated otherwise, you do not lose your right to claim self defense because you took the INEXCUSABLE step of speaking to another human being as they are walking in the neighborhood... absurd and ridiculous on it's face. If he assaulted or placed his hands on the young man in any way, then you have an argument. Maybe he did, do you even know... of course you don't.
If the young man did attack Zimmerman and was doing so to the point Zim felt his life was in danger, then the final determination will be, did Trayvon attack him just for talking to him or did Zimmerman assault/attack him first. It could go either way, Zim might be the asshole, looking for trouble and physically assaulted him, then had to use his firearm to get himself out of trouble. Or, this kid may have been a billy bad ass, didn't like this property owner talking to him and decided to fuck him up and got drilled for it. I have no idea, and neither do you.
For the record, I listened to the audio and it CLEARLY sounds like Zim says "fucking punks" not coons... frankly, I can't even remotely hear it that way. It's going to be interesting to see where it goes from here.
Since so many are guessing at what happened, my conjecture would be that Zim did initiate the confrontation with some kind of physical contact, most likely negating his right to use self defense as an excuse. But that's just a gut feeling and I have zero evidence to support it. If that's what happened, he's in deep shit.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
there is zero evidence that zimmerman was assaulted in any way. neighbors reported seeing him standing nonchalantly over the guy he murdered. not a single picture of zimmerman supposed bloody nose (boy, that's great bodily harm, isn't it?) or his supposedly grass stained shirt (grass stains? well clearly, that proves he was in danger of great bodily harm!).
only one anonymous eyewitness has said that, other witnesses contradict him and also report that the police tried to "correct" their statements to fit the narrative you cling to (despite an equal amount of evidence in the opposite direction).
zimmerman pursued martin is what happened, which is not covered in the justifiable use of force statute. you lose your protection when you initially provoke the situation like that.
he didn't simply speak to him as he entered the neighborhood, he followed him around. he pursued martin. you do lose your ability to claim self defense in that case, with two exceptions outlined in the law: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html
not at all. the question will be whether zimmerman "exhausted every possible means of escape", which we already know is not the case due to the location of the murder.
listen again.
<font size="5"><font size="2">[video=youtube;eGuctYqCDvo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGuctYqCDvo[/video]
Unclebuck there is a possibility Trayvon fought him please dont be as bad as the others in closing out realistic possibilities. If Zimmerman didnt ID himself then trayvon could have confronted him thinking Zim was some kind of wierdo stalker. If I was 6'3 and over 200lbs I wouldnt let some fat bitch stalk me with a car without IDing himself. I woild stop and ask wtf is your problem. Again someone who has been harrassed because of their skin color looks at the world very differently. Minorities walk around certain parts of th country with targets on their b acks. Howard Beach NY anyone?
cliffey501
Active Member
No evidence zimmermen was assualted? Its documented by police that he was bleeding from the nose and back of the head.The grass stains on his shirt are also documented.He was also looked at by EMT's.it was also noted that Zimmermen told EMT's I kept screaming for help and noone came.The witness that contradicts "John" ? This witness you speak of is the woman that didnt see anything.She heard screaming and phoned 911.She said it was trayvon screaming? How does she know that? she didnt even know martin but yet can say that was him screaming.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
was an ambulance called for Zimmerbutt ??? Did he need medical attention ??? Did he refuse medical attention??? Please show picture of said bleeding nose..
cliffey501
Active Member
He was treated by the stanford fire department.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
link please ..... thank you
Don't hold your breath for it. And the irony of all this is that under the "stand your ground" law the kid would have been justified in smacking the living shit out of some mouthbreathing cretin following him.