Top bin COB comparison 2

AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
JorgeGonzales said:
CDI sometimes has stock, but a 1212 is $12 there. This is a much more realistic price. Digikey is high.
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There isn't a bunch of stock available for the gen 5 CLU cobs but 1812~1818 ranging between 18~25$ on CDI ... wow digikey.

Do you think Bridgelux will keep their prices for the Vero 29 the same as they did with the gen 5 to 6 conversion or do you believe they will alter their prices considerably?
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
There isn't a bunch of stock available for the gen 5 CLU cobs but 1812~1818 ranging between 18~25$ on CDI ... wow digikey.

Do you think Bridgelux will keep their prices for the Vero 29 the same as they did with the gen 5 to 6 conversion or do you believe they will alter their prices considerably?
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Got me. My assumption has been that the lowest output/voltage versions will be the same price as the old ones. So the ~36V Vero 29 around $25, and the higher voltage versions more.
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
Your assumption is most likely the case, for financial reasons. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that they average the costs between the type B,C, and D models and sell em' around 35$ each, as I counted x45 different classifications/variations for the gen 7 Vero 29 cob. Not likely but who knows, it's Bridgelux ;)
 
BOBBY_G

BOBBY_G

Well-Known Member
robincnn said:
Cree :spew:old tech and expensive.o_O
Even with the bin jump the gap may be narrow between 3590 and Vero 29.
Cree just has better voltage compatibility with drivers.

Brdigelux has reduced voltage in new cob. For 50 watts 36.65V compared to 37.6

@BOBBY_G has a better sensor so lets see what are his results with the new Vero 29D and 3590CD
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im betting the major bias i see is on the 90 cris and i dont see any in that chart. i need to get better at pulsed measurements
JorgeGonzales said:
Digikey is high.
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see i told you citis grow good weed:bigjoint:
 
Organic Miner

Organic Miner

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
There isn't a bunch of stock available for the gen 5 CLU cobs but 1812~1818 ranging between 18~25$ on CDI ... wow digikey.

Do you think Bridgelux will keep their prices for the Vero 29 the same as they did with the gen 5 to 6 conversion or do you believe they will alter their prices considerably?
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@AquariusPanta , CDI may not show any in stock, but if you request a quote they can tell you how long it will take. I recently purchased a batch of 1212's from them and the quoted me 6-8 weeks and I got them in 4. Plus, the more you buy the cheaper they get. I bought 75@$10 each. Don't let the "none in stock" prevent you from checking them out.
 
BOBBY_G

BOBBY_G

Well-Known Member
1818 did not match 3590 in my test. not sure why the discrepancy with robin's data. i would expect 3500k 1818 to equal the 3000K 1818 (at least)

the 1818 used in this test came from CDI. the 3590 is a recent CD bin from an april batch with the new gold CREE printing. maybe its a high binner, DB in disguise? maybe CDI has been sitting on the 1818s for a year? who knows.

here are both w/ideal holders on a 140mm pinfin with graphite pads
120mm fan on top of pinfin blowing down
ambient temp 20-22C

I let temps stabilize for the main curves. i also did a pulsed test with 1818 and it couldnt even match the stabilized temp 3590. Pulsed testing was difficult esp at higher currents. anything over 50W by the time i got the current dialed in to exactly where i wanted it the ppfd was dropping like a rock. i could see variations of 5+% in just a few seconds. i need a better isothermal solution like the water block

respectable showing for the 1818 given its price at about half the 3590 but i think 3070 might be a better match

my next test will be 1212 vs 1818 vs 3070


upload_2016-7-1_8-27-27.png
 
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tomate

tomate

Well-Known Member
Thank you very much @BOBBY_G !

According to my calculations the 1212 should do 2.62 µmol/J at 300mA and would correspond to the 3590 at 1.4A.
I really hope that the 1212 3000K performes at least equal or even better at lower amperage compared to the 3590 3500K at ~1A.

Would love to see a comparsion of the 3590 3500K vs 1212 3000K. I am still asking myself if instead of buying a few of the top bin crees, a greater number of the gen5 1212s at a lower amperage would really result in a better efficiancy.
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
BOBBY_G said:
1818 did not match 3590 in my test. not sure why the discrepancy with robin's data. i would expect 3500k 1818 to equal the 3000K 1818 (at least)

the 1818 used in this test came from CDI. the 3590 is a recent CD bin from an april batch with the new gold CREE printing. maybe its a high binner, DB in disguise? maybe CDI has been sitting on the 1818s for a year? who knows.

here are both w/ideal holders on a 140mm pinfin with graphite pads
120mm fan on top of pinfin blowing down
ambient temp 20-22C

I let temps stabilize for the main curves. i also did a pulsed test with 1818 and it couldnt even match the stabilized temp 3590. Pulsed testing was difficult esp at higher currents. anything over 50W by the time i got the current dialed in to exactly where i wanted it the ppfd was dropping like a rock. i could see variations of 5+% in just a few seconds. i need a better isothermal solution like the water block

respectable showing for the 1818 given its price at about half the 3590 but i think 3070 might be a better match

my next test will be 1212 vs 1818 vs 3070


View attachment 3722014
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Yeah that's enormously different than @robincnns test. More what I expected initially, but very confusing overall. I was definitely comparing to Vero 29 and CXB3070 when shopping for the 1818.

I don't like the enormous discrepancy though. At all.

Isn't the current something you are setting with a bench supply?
 
BOBBY_G

BOBBY_G

Well-Known Member
yup. enormous. i know its an 1818 as they print that right on the chip. (edit: i looked at it up close uder low current and i see no blown dies). i can try another from that batch. i guess

robins stuff is here
robin, were any of the cobs you sent your actual testers in your study? hopefully the 1818 is the same 3000K
 
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BOBBY_G

BOBBY_G

Well-Known Member
goofy data below 50W but the rest looks OK. These are raw datapoints, i didnt smooth or throw out anomalous points or anything. consider this a 4000K shootout but i put the 6500K 3618 in there for lack of anything else to compare it to. it is impressive! but expensive... about 50% more than the 1825. and its unclear whether a 4000K 3618 in a fair fight with other 4000Ks would show the gains the 6500K did. still a beast though, i ran it out to 330W and it was throwing down over 2000 umols at 12". amazing they can push 500+W out of that 35mm LES...

the new Vero beats the DB bin 3590 but cant quite match the citi CLU058 series. Vero and 1825 should be close on a cost/performance basis if the $29 price on the new Veros is true. Cree needs to get in the game, a bin jump aint gonna save them at those prices. note that the cree is a 70CRI chip and the 4000K 80 CRIs are still in CD bin...

upload_2016-7-11_4-25-15.png

notes on test above:
-ambient temp 21-22C
-all tests had 12V 200mA fan blowing down on pinfins. heatsink temp measured with ir laser thermometer were 20s and low 30s at center of heatsink behind chip
-all measurements are after temperature stabilizes
-I did pulsed measurements for each at 1,2 and 3A as well but saw less than 1% droop below 2A
-CXB3590DB on PLC140mm pinfin in ideal holder with arctic silver pad
-Veros on Robin's 140mm pinfin, no holder, arctic silver pad
-CLU058s on PLC140mm pinfin, no holder, arctic silver MX4


3000K shootout in next day or two including:
CXB3590 CB bin 80CRI
CLU058-1825 80CRI
CLU048-1818 80CRI
CLU048-1212 80CRI
CLU048-1212 90CRI
 
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ReddEyez

ReddEyez

Well-Known Member
BOBBY_G said:
CLU058s running out to high wattage... wow! 3618 has up to 3x the power of the DB bin at the same efficiency. not too shabby for a $60 chip! $120 worth of chips to replace a gavita!
View attachment 3729462
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Great info Bobby G! Thank you for taking the time to test, and for sharing the info man. Much appreciated. Looks like Cree has some catching up to do. Going to get interesting i think! :joint:
Great thread robincnn hope all is good, thank you.
 
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optzulu

optzulu

Well-Known Member
The 1212 will win from the 1818 from 1w to 36w then the 1818 will get ahead, but the 1212 costs also 50-60% less then a 1818 and only have 1/3 less power.
 
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