This is gonna get interesting! Militia takes over Ore. federal building after protest.

budlover13 said:

The article that I read.

http://news.yahoo.com/burns-oregon-residents-find-unexpected-common-ground-with-bundy-movement-185240014.html#

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Yeah, and according to the article this in principle is what it's all about - "Kingen said she and her family appreciate the effort to raise awareness about what the Bundys and others argue is an overreach of federal control of public lands."

You really don't mess with the Feds. They are and can get ruthless. They're just another group, like "us", but with a different mission.

One of their finer moments:

londonfog said:

Here's a question that could clear up your views on this consent thing.
A young lady who is 13 years of age is told by everyone how mature she is. She takes care of her siblings when her mother is at work, she does her schoolwork properly, she does not bother with the petty idle talk her other classmate indulge in. She has the body of a 21 year old and can look the part with make up.
She meets a man who is 27 years of age. They have sex, in which she ends up pregnant. He is arrested and charged with statuary rape.
Do you think he should be found not guilty because the girl agreed to have sex with him?

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In any criminal occurrence, one way to resolve it is to restitute the victim. Could you identify the person that was victimized ?
Who is making the claim they were victimized? The "victim" or a person that isn't involved?
If you find him guilty but nobody involved does, should YOU be restituted ? Which loss did YOU suffer and how would YOU be compensated ?


How will your soft porn story clear up whether or not some people have or have not consented to something? You claimed it would.


You did point something out which was relevant though, that some people reach maturity at a different time than other people.


Also, you're probably more interested in this discussion (as you've constructed it) than I am. I'd be happy to continue it in a more generic way of what is and what isn't consent some other time in another thread.

Uncle Ben said:

Yeah, and according to the article this in principle is what it's all about - "Kingen said she and her family appreciate the effort to raise awareness about what the Bundys and others argue is an overreach of federal control of public lands."

You really don't mess with the Feds. They are and can get ruthless. They're just another group, like "us", but with a different mission.

One of their finer moments:

Click to expand...

Overall, I am beginning to view this situation as a positive thing for the country for bringing up the conversations that are starting to happen.

Land use has been a long running debate and has never been fully resolved. At least people are discussing it now.

Then there's the discussion on firearms. Of course, I think this topic was already at the forefront before this. It is a representation of the belief that armed citizens can utilize firearms to resist what they believe to be a tyrannical government. I say this because had they taken the exact same actions, unarmed, they would've been pepper sprayed, gassed, handcuffed and hauled away and the topic of land use would never be discussed.

Not supporting their actions, but rather, looking at the situation as a concerned citizen. Tbh, I think this may have been a bad thing for gun rights. I guess only time will tell.

I'm all for the preservation of land reflected in Federal national parks. Forgot the President who pushed that into law but it's a good thing.

Obama has been good for gun rights or at least gun and munitions manufacture's bank accounts. Every time he opens his stupid PC mouth sales skyrocket.

Recently Open Carry went into effect in Texas and as of yet there has been no issues and none expected by the authorities. Perhaps less burgluaries and assaults by thugs.

Yes, I too support the protection of public lands for public use. I have spent much time in National Parks. Camping, fishing, hiking, etc. Hunting in the National forests. However, if the backstory of the situation that I have read is accurate, I don't agree with how these ranchers have been coerced. Diverting water sources, flooding property, malicious prosecution, etc.

Uncle Ben said:

Yeah, and according to the article this in principle is what it's all about - "Kingen said she and her family appreciate the effort to raise awareness about what the Bundys and others argue is an overreach of federal control of public lands."

You really don't mess with the Feds. They are and can get ruthless. They're just another group, like "us", but with a different mission.

One of their finer moments:

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See ben, you lose any dog in the fight doing this crap.

You know they were inside with traps. the best play was all out attack and if anyone survives, it`s a plus. He doomed everyone in that building and you just can`t come to terms with criminals at some point deserve what they getno matter how they go out, it was he who took the kids with him.

If you have one moment of support for that child raping Wacko at Waco, you might as well be just like him, go out in a blaze of glory but go out non the less. Taking the poor kids with him is just the kind of thing that child rapist wanted. He had his moment, he had his play cards.

You don`t wanna know what the civi`s would do if they were allowed to call it against that freak. Picture that freak being dragged out by his feet, hung up by his feet and beaten slowy while we fucking laugh,....you think cops can get bad and angry and act out of anger,....you aint seen good ole street justice yet.

You don't understand the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Armed Resistance Movement; It's really about fairness in video game journalism.

lol `MNWRARM` - pronounced "Manure Arm"

Interesting, they turned away sympathizers. Armed sympathizers. Me thinks they seek a peaceful resolution?

Rob Roy said:

In any criminal occurrence, one way to resolve it is to restitute the victim. Could you identify the person that was victimized ?
Who is making the claim they were victimized? The "victim" or a person that isn't involved?
If you find him guilty but nobody involved does, should YOU be restituted ? Which loss did YOU suffer and how would YOU be compensated ?


How will your soft porn story clear up whether or not some people have or have not consented to something? You claimed it would.


You did point something out of relevance though, that some people reach maturity at a different time than other people.


Also, you're probably more interested in this discussion (as you've constructed it) than I am. I'd be happy to continue it in a more generic way of what is and what isn't consent some other time in another thread.

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If I'm understanding correctly your view is as long as the 13 year old does not feel like a victim, no wrong was done.
So the child must feel like a victim in order for some kind of rape to have occurred ? What if the child was 12,...11...10 but mature for age? Do the same rules apply for all ? As long as the child is mature ( in whose eyes ) and not feeling like a victim, it is ok for an adult to sex them.
Rob Roy do you not see how insane you sound and look ?
You are saying if a child of 12 (who is mature for age ) allows a man of 28 to have sex with him/her, it is ok as long as the child does not feel like a victim.

I tried to give you a chance to show us we were misunderstanding you. Instead you solidly showed how much you share and except the views of a pedophile . I think your wife and all of your sons would be very ashamed and disappointed in you right now.
.

Uncle Ben said:

Besides being a rhetorical question and off topic (as usual) it doesn't matter what "we" think. The law is the law.

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According to @Rob Roy we should not have laws that tells us at what age someone can consent to sexual relations. His view is as long as the child is mature and willing.
Maybe we can discuss this in a way you Texans would understand. Lets start by this question with you.
How old were you when you fucked your first cattle. Was it a calf or cow ?

Right Wing Fan Fiction!!!!

Oh, yes, fan fiction can be written on either side. It seems that one of the Extremist Mormon ranchers occupying the wildlife reserve has fantasies about killing neighbors and "government agents". All in the interest of saving the second amendment:

This is from http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/oregon-militia-members-post-apocalyptic-book-bears-striking#.ayZaZ9w3V2

"Militia Member’s Post-Apocalyptic Book Resembles Oregon, But Ends With A Bloodbath
In August, LaVoy Finicum — one of the men occupying a wildlife preserve in Oregon — published Only by Blood and Suffering: Regaining Lost Freedom. The novel is about many of the same issues raised in Oregon, but culminates in a series of brutal gunfights and killings.

Eventually in the book, a rogue Department of Homeland Security agent forces people at gunpoint to give up their firearms. When one man resists, an agent shoots him in the head.

The heroes of the story refuse to surrender their guns, and consequently are able to kill the neighbors and government agents who come to take their supplies by force. The book goes into great detail about the protagonists’ arsenal, which includes an array of pistols, AR-15 rifles, and other guns — all of which are pivotal to their triumph."

The review goes on but I'll leave the details to your imagination. Its safe to say that LaVoy is absolutely convinced he's right and willing to make you die for his convictions.

I had a friend that was a real gun nut. He had similar fantasies. I don't fantasize about killing my neighbor. Gun nuts however, do. At least some do.

budlover13 said:

Overall, I am beginning to view this situation as a positive thing for the country for bringing up the conversations that are starting to happen.

Land use has been a long running debate and has never been fully resolved. At least people are discussing it now.

Then there's the discussion on firearms. Of course, I think this topic was already at the forefront before this. It is a representation of the belief that armed citizens can utilize firearms to resist what they believe to be a tyrannical government. I say this because had they taken the exact same actions, unarmed, they would've been pepper sprayed, gassed, handcuffed and hauled away and the topic of land use would never be discussed.

Not supporting their actions, but rather, looking at the situation as a concerned citizen. Tbh, I think this may have been a bad thing for gun rights. I guess only time will tell.

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Congressman Walden, the US congressman that represents the district including Harney County spent time speaking in the House to discuss the issues he's faced regarding conflict between ranchers and bureaucratic rules regarding land use in the Wildlife Sanctuary. He described how things have gotten better over the years as stake holders -- ranchers, recreational user groups, environmentalists and government officials have begun to work cooperatively. He is enormously frustrated by government high-handedness yet was positive about the direction that the cooperative council is taking.

Ammon Bundy is succeeding in getting attention to the need for better treatment of ranchers. Not all of this attention is good. Nor will it last. In the long run, I question whether or not this occupation fosters the spirit of cooperation that -- according to the Congressman's words -- was growing and was producing improved results for the ranchers and users of this resource. I can only guess at the frustration that people who are already working cooperatively to improve the management of the reserve must feel when a pot roast with a gun and a cowboy hat shows up to proclaim to all the world his armed protest "for the locals" that don't want him there.

Yes, ranchers in the area are dealing with a byzantine and remote management system. They are not the only interested parties, however. I am heartened to hear that stakeholders are working together to make a better way. Bundy is more like a wrecker than a builder. The message I keep hearing from the locals is that they appreciate his concern but wish him to butt out. And Walden said that work is already underway to make things better.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/05/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-armed-protest/

Leader of armed protesters in Oregon took out $530,000 federal loan






iLOL

UncleBuck said:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/05/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-armed-protest/

Leader of armed protesters in Oregon took out $530,000 federal loan






iLOL

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His dad owes the US government around $1 million dollars.

"I don't want the gov'ment's hands all over my freedom" Cletus whispered. "What about these hands?" said Ammon raggedly #bundyeroticfanfic

As Cletus gazed longingly at Ammon's naked body, he finally understood the real fight for grazing rights. #BundyEroticFanFic

#FiftyShadesofCamo

londonfog said:

If I'm understanding correctly your view is as long as the 13 year old does not feel like a victim, no wrong was done.
So the child must feel like a victim in order for some kind of rape to have occurred ? What if the child was 12,...11...10 but mature for age? Do the same rules apply for all ? As long as the child is mature ( in whose eyes ) and not feeling like a victim, it is ok for an adult to sex them.
Rob Roy do you not see how insane you sound and look ?
You are saying if a child of 12 (who is mature for age ) allows a man of 28 to have sex with him/her, it is ok as long as the child does not feel like a victim.

I tried to give you a chance to show us we were misunderstanding you. Instead you solidly showed how much you share and except the views of a pedophile . I think your wife and all of your sons would be very ashamed and disappointed in you right now.
.

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No, my feeling is : what I consider wrong to do or right to do with MY body is MY choice. What another person, capable of consenting does with THEIR body is THEIR choice. To remove that choice of the individual over themselves, is to endorse a form of slavery. If it isn't please explain why it isn't.

I can, and often DO disagree with how other people exercise their choices, I'm just not willing to use PROHIBITIONIST tactics on other people whose choices differ from mine, you are.

The rest of your post is an obvious attempt to conflate my position into something else and to call forth the Poopy Pants slander brigade. Nice try.

Are you saying it is insane to respect another human beings right of self determination ? Why?

Also I invited you to discuss what consent means in a more general sense and you returned to scenarios that appear to bring you some kind of titillation or gratification. I can't stop you from exercising your right of free speech, and never would try, but what do you get out of conjuring up those kinds of scenarios? Does your wife know you are imagining and describing scenarios where young girls are having sex?

Rob Roy said:

Does your wife know you are imagining and describing scenarios where young girls are having sex?

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does yours know you refuse to state that pedophilia should be illegal?

londonfog said:

According to @Rob Roy we should not have laws that tells us at what age someone can consent to sexual relations. His view is as long as the child is mature and willing.
Maybe we can discuss this in a way you Texans would understand. Lets start by this question with you.
How old were you when you fucked your first cattle. Was it a calf or cow ?

Click to expand...

Dude...Cattle is plural. Your question is misleading and nonsensical. Are you expanding on the "everything is big in Texas" mantra to now posit that Texans have two dicks?

On second thought please refrain from elaborating on your knowledge of cattle fucking and multi dicked men etc. Thank you.

UncleBuck said:

does yours know you refuse to state that pedophilia should be illegal?

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Hang on I'll go down into the basement and unlock her "timeout box" and ask her.

UncleBuck said:

does yours know you refuse to state that pedophilia should be illegal?

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Why does he find it so hard to do just that. His views supports and allow pedophiles to roam freely.

Rob Roy said:

Hang on I'll go down into the basement and unlock her "timeout box" and ask her.

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I hope you really don't keep your wife in a time-out box. Is that the reason why you never have to yell at her? You just drag her to a time out box ?