and i never said animals weren't intelligent just that they don't seem to comprehend reality as it were but maybe i'm wrong about that too... who knows... but honestly and truly i don't think they are in the same class as humans... once again if animals were no less then robots how would that fit into a test... maybe they are a clue of some sort or maybe they are just here to serve a specific purpose... as i've said about the spinning top... it doesn't matter how or where it goes just that the end result is the same...
The Universe!!!
- Thread starter frthnkr85
- Start date
skunkushybrid
New Member
So you know the answer to the sum, yet you haven't done the working out to arrive at the answer.
Do you not see this as egotistical? It is your ego that leads you to thinking you are special.
Aren't angels a different race altogether? Seraphims, or something like that? My point is, that this god of yours doesn't rate you as highly as you think. You get to live down here with the rest of the fuck-ups while the seraphims are partying on down in heaven. I wonder if they have a sense of humour? There is much that is laughable with the world today.
What about when you actually get to heaven, walk through the pearly gates... or would you float? Would you be able to look in a mirror? Will you see the google of people that have died before you?
So, you're not sure if we walked the earth with the dinosaurs... a lot of films from the seventies depicted man alongside the dinosaurs, untill otherwise was learned. If you believe in a god then you must believe the world is only 8, 000 years old (7xstall).
You can't just say you believe something without understanding your reasoning for it.
Do you not see this as egotistical? It is your ego that leads you to thinking you are special.
Aren't angels a different race altogether? Seraphims, or something like that? My point is, that this god of yours doesn't rate you as highly as you think. You get to live down here with the rest of the fuck-ups while the seraphims are partying on down in heaven. I wonder if they have a sense of humour? There is much that is laughable with the world today.
What about when you actually get to heaven, walk through the pearly gates... or would you float? Would you be able to look in a mirror? Will you see the google of people that have died before you?
So, you're not sure if we walked the earth with the dinosaurs... a lot of films from the seventies depicted man alongside the dinosaurs, untill otherwise was learned. If you believe in a god then you must believe the world is only 8, 000 years old (7xstall).
You can't just say you believe something without understanding your reasoning for it.
i believe skunk that i don't know all the answers... yet something inside of me tells me there is more... and instead of closing this part of me up because i can't prove it i open my mind to the possibilities... i know for a fact the world has been around for millions of years if not more... but this proves nothing and disproves nothing... i can't back up my beliefs and you know that skunk... but i know that too... however I have intelligence and i will not waste it on a single line of thinking... your total disbelief is far worse then my belief... because whereas i can say i don't know for sure and i have no proof... you say that you do know and you can prove it... but you and i both know just as i can't prove my points neither can you beyond a shadow of a doubt... i don't ask that you or anyone believes in a god i just want two things from humanity... the ability to keep an open mind towards all things and use our intelligence for greater things... and for all men to have good will towards each other so that the reason listed above has a chance... this is why i don't get mad and won't tell you i believe you are going to hell etc... i don't believe in that nonsense and i don't believe in trying to scare people around to my way of thinking... i just believe in getting people to think... and i'm not egotistical because i have admitted many times and will admit again that i don't know anything and all i try to do is gain knowledge... i can openly admit that everything i post is no more then theory and could very well be wrong... and since we are discussing things based not on physical facts but on untangible thought the chances of me being wrong are pretty decent... however i try to as i've said before keep an open mind and to let my ideas change based on things i learn everyday... i'm not a religious fanatic with one set of ideas that i fervantly stick to and i hope that you skunk and anyone else that reads my post can see that... i am but a seeker of knowledge with a small lamp in this world of darkness!!!
skunkushybrid
New Member
So you hold with the historical data given, the carbon-dating of bones... that the dinosaurs died out 65, 000,000 yrs before man walked the earth. What did this god of yours do, fuck up with the dinosaurs? It then took him 65 million years to come up with something else.
I know who your god is frth', your god is a she, her name is nature.
no nature is unthinking it is a tool... a tool is no good without concious thought behind it... and i never said i believe everything about science just some of it... and carbon dating doesn't rule out man existing at the same time as the dinosaurs they just haven't found proof yet... but as you yourself have said manytimes scientists discover new things that baffel them all the time... its only a matter of time before something new is discovered that completly changes the scientific communities scope of this world... it has happened millions of times throughout history and will happen many more... you must remember your own views skunk... anything is possible... ANYTHING!!!
skunkushybrid
New Member
Nature is not a tool, she is a force. Your creator, yet also your murderer.
Why do you find it difficult to accept that this god you believe in is not nature? You have already stated you don't know what your god is. You can't even surmise what your heaven would be like. What if heaven is not being aware, to finally return to the nothing from which we came... to die?
Why must you believe that you are different from every other animal on the planet... why must you believe that somehow you will live forever? You have delusions of grandeur.
So, cro-magnon... homo-sapiens direct ancestor appeared on the scene 60, 000 years ago. We have found humanoid bones that carbon date back to 3, 000, 000 years. Do you agree that these humanoid bones could be our ancestors?
Why do you find it difficult to accept that this god you believe in is not nature? You have already stated you don't know what your god is. You can't even surmise what your heaven would be like. What if heaven is not being aware, to finally return to the nothing from which we came... to die?
Why must you believe that you are different from every other animal on the planet... why must you believe that somehow you will live forever? You have delusions of grandeur.
So, cro-magnon... homo-sapiens direct ancestor appeared on the scene 60, 000 years ago. We have found humanoid bones that carbon date back to 3, 000, 000 years. Do you agree that these humanoid bones could be our ancestors?
they very well could be... but they could be something else entirely... who knows we weren't there... and i don't think humans are neccesarily special in the grand scheme of things... just in the part of the universe we have discovered so far... but to make a good argument... if they found human ancestors and cro-magnon are them then in 3 million years why has no other intelligent form of life appeared...(intelligent by human standards)... i mean certain fish and reptiles have been around or their ancestors anyway far longer then 3 million years... i mean there are all makes and models of humans with different physical and mental handicaps and advantages... yet they all share a concious knowledge of existence... no matter what has been observed no other lifeform on this planet has been found yet to display these characteristics... and if humans have been recording things for a long time why is this??? we can delve farther and deeper into nature now then ever before but yet still no sign of concious awareness has been found... if humans can communicate with each other why haven't we found a way to communicate with other animals yet??? if some animals are so intelligent why hasn't this happened yet??? i mean there are millions of questions without answers so why try to answer them permenatly... granted some questions have permenate answers... but far more don't... i just hypothosize based on what i feel which is etheral and what i can see which is physical... but i never try to give conclusive answers... and nature can be a tool just as a car is... once a car is started it will run until it runs out of gas or an error occurs within the transmission or engine which is fatal to the car... yet the car is not a force because it didn't create itself... the only true force is energy and nature may utilize energy just as a car does... but it is still a tool... whether it is a tool of god or of the earth is for someone far greater then me to decide... however i will not spend time on worshiping nor considering nature (aka. a tool) as god...
skunkushybrid
New Member
Why do bats use sonar to see? There are many differences with animals, we are an example. If you watch animals you will see that they are intelligent, maybe even as intelligent as us. Just because they don't talk our language doesn't mean they don't know how to communicate.
We communicate with animals all the time. The dog is maybe the best example, as we have the greatest opportunity for study. When my dog needs water he will sit by the kitchen sink. First he will nudge me, then he will go and sit by the sink. I didn't teach him to do this, the first time he did it I didn't have a clue what was going on. I asked him if he wanted water and he started getting all excited. Is this not communication? A communication that the dog actually instigated?
You actually believe you are bigger than nature? That nature can be used as a tool by your god? That's excellent frth', shows what a cunt of a god you believe in. Earthquakes, tsunami's, hurricanes etc... Your god is responsible for all of this? Wielding this 'tool' we call nature like a weapon, or a great scythe culling the little people?
Interesting perspective frth', nature is your god's tool (aka weapon).
We communicate with animals all the time. The dog is maybe the best example, as we have the greatest opportunity for study. When my dog needs water he will sit by the kitchen sink. First he will nudge me, then he will go and sit by the sink. I didn't teach him to do this, the first time he did it I didn't have a clue what was going on. I asked him if he wanted water and he started getting all excited. Is this not communication? A communication that the dog actually instigated?
You actually believe you are bigger than nature? That nature can be used as a tool by your god? That's excellent frth', shows what a cunt of a god you believe in. Earthquakes, tsunami's, hurricanes etc... Your god is responsible for all of this? Wielding this 'tool' we call nature like a weapon, or a great scythe culling the little people?
Interesting perspective frth', nature is your god's tool (aka weapon).
no you have it all wrong... once again running in to that post barrier... i don't believe god interacts with us... i just believe he started the top spinning and left it alone... just as you can build a car and start it and leave it alone... i think we were given this earth to do as we would and learn as we would... i look at god as teacher of sorts not as a tyrant or puppetmaster... kinda like a father with kids... you teach your kids what you can or in gods case give them the ability to access knowledge you deem neccesary and then they are on their own to live their lives and make their mistakes and be successful or unsuccesful... to be good or evil... maybe that will help you to understand my thoughts a little better... well more studying to do... lots to learn...lol
skunkushybrid
New Member
No, you said nature is a tool. A tool is used by something. We can't do it, and as you've already stated we are the exception on this planet. So that only leaves your god.
Nature is not a tool, she is a force. She is your god frth'. She is everyone's god if they have the sense to accept her. She offers you nothing but the chance to live your life. She only asks that you take care not to hurt her, once she is hurt she shows her anger. Even early christians would take something like a thunder storm as a sign from god, maybe some still do today. Do you not see what god is now frth'?
god is all around you and in you at the same time. Take a look around frth', what do you see? Next time you walk by a tree, take a deep breath through your nose, and note what you smell.
Shit, i'm turning into a fucking pagan... I may well reinvent the religion and make a shitload of cash.
Nature is not a tool, she is a force. She is your god frth'. She is everyone's god if they have the sense to accept her. She offers you nothing but the chance to live your life. She only asks that you take care not to hurt her, once she is hurt she shows her anger. Even early christians would take something like a thunder storm as a sign from god, maybe some still do today. Do you not see what god is now frth'?
god is all around you and in you at the same time. Take a look around frth', what do you see? Next time you walk by a tree, take a deep breath through your nose, and note what you smell.
Shit, i'm turning into a fucking pagan... I may well reinvent the religion and make a shitload of cash.
matias2911
Well-Known Member
Pascal, in the 17th century, tried to find a way of explaining why the belief in (the christian) god was positive by weighing the pros and cons this is what he found:
- In his eyes to believe or not to believe in god was the same as to believe or not in life after death.
-If a person decided not to believe in god and that belief proved to be right that person would gain nothing at the end , and if he was proved wrong, and there was life after death he/she would lose everything because he/she would have put all his faith on life on earth.
-On the contrary, if a person believed in god and was proved right , that person would have everything to gain (life after death). if that belief, on the other hand, was proved wrong that person would not have lost anything.
Pascal concludes by justifying the belief in god as a winning situation. On the one hand you have nothing to gain and everything to lose, and on the other you have nothing to lose and everything you hoped for to gain.
This is to show how deep in thought philosophers have gone to justify religion and the belief in a conscious creator. I personally truly disagree with Pascal's reasonning, and find it to have many flaws, yet it remains one of the best justifications of religion I have found to date,,, what do you think?
- In his eyes to believe or not to believe in god was the same as to believe or not in life after death.
-If a person decided not to believe in god and that belief proved to be right that person would gain nothing at the end , and if he was proved wrong, and there was life after death he/she would lose everything because he/she would have put all his faith on life on earth.
-On the contrary, if a person believed in god and was proved right , that person would have everything to gain (life after death). if that belief, on the other hand, was proved wrong that person would not have lost anything.
Pascal concludes by justifying the belief in god as a winning situation. On the one hand you have nothing to gain and everything to lose, and on the other you have nothing to lose and everything you hoped for to gain.
This is to show how deep in thought philosophers have gone to justify religion and the belief in a conscious creator. I personally truly disagree with Pascal's reasonning, and find it to have many flaws, yet it remains one of the best justifications of religion I have found to date,,, what do you think?
a tool can be used once skunk and left alone after being set in motion... you are missing my point... imagine if i could build the most comlex machine ever made... a computer of unimaginable propotion... one that could adjust itself and maintain its own life keep itself running for an unspecified amount of time... i finish building it and all i have to do is flip the switch... the computer runs for 100 million years.... so long in fact that people forget it was a person that built it... is it now a force just because people forgot or can't prove such an astounding machine was built by a man.... so is a force or is it still a tool??? nature is beautiful the earth is beautiful i've seen a lot of it and hope to see more... but there is no design to it... it is completly random in what it does... there are no set patterns nothing to even think that it has some form of intelligence... just a really well built tool that has the ability to function on its own...
skunkushybrid
New Member
A tool needs to be operated. Even if it's automatic it needs something to power it. Something needs to be in control. Tools do not use themselves.
There is no design to the earth? Why do you contradict yourself?
skunkushybrid
New Member
The major flaw in this theory is actual belief. To pretend to yourself that you believe is not true belief. So even if you faked all your life you would still lose.
sasarchiver
Well-Known Member
I hear you frthnkr85, im into space and time myself. never really looked at the point of god understanding "time" as i dont believe in "god" though i am open minded. Like, there maybe a god of the universe but not the god as we know it. I like to think there is a higher power.
What gets me is the big bang, start of the universe etc. Were the hell didnt it come from, what was there before. it just didnt appear from nowehere out of nothing.
I remeber when i was a kid and my father used to try and explain the galaxy to me. I always thought that the bright bit in the middle of the galaxy was our sun, didnt realize that our solar system is just a speck in this galaxy. Another way my dad explained was " If u can travel at the speed of light and the galaxy is 200,000 light years across, then it would take u 200,000 years to cross it, thats when i realized that the sun wasnt in the middle of the galaxy LOL
I like the super massive black hole theory and facts. Breaks space and time to almost breaking point, amazing. I wonder what happens when u go through a black hole, (singularity) just physics that we dont understand yet i guess. There is supermassive blackholes in every galaxy, which was proved with hubble in 2000.
Another thing that does worry me is that for man to exsist we will need to leave this planet, thats for sure. to many dangerous odds against us.
Anyways, sorry for rambling on, its the chronic
What gets me is the big bang, start of the universe etc. Were the hell didnt it come from, what was there before. it just didnt appear from nowehere out of nothing.
I remeber when i was a kid and my father used to try and explain the galaxy to me. I always thought that the bright bit in the middle of the galaxy was our sun, didnt realize that our solar system is just a speck in this galaxy. Another way my dad explained was " If u can travel at the speed of light and the galaxy is 200,000 light years across, then it would take u 200,000 years to cross it, thats when i realized that the sun wasnt in the middle of the galaxy LOL
I like the super massive black hole theory and facts. Breaks space and time to almost breaking point, amazing. I wonder what happens when u go through a black hole, (singularity) just physics that we dont understand yet i guess. There is supermassive blackholes in every galaxy, which was proved with hubble in 2000.
Another thing that does worry me is that for man to exsist we will need to leave this planet, thats for sure. to many dangerous odds against us.
Anyways, sorry for rambling on, its the chronic
i got some interesting things i've thought about to post later... it will probably be a few hours but hold on to your socks they are pretty good...lol... by the way hawking theorized that there were multiple dimensions and where a black hole was in one dimension there was none in another... therefore these black holes cancelled each other out... interesting stuff...
sasarchiver
Well-Known Member
cool, cant wait to hear em.
skunkushybrid
New Member
It's been a while since i read about this stuff... but isn't a black hole anti-matter? Didn't stephen also theorise that it would be impossible for matter to enter anti-matter and survive?
If black holes lead to different galaxies and it was in one galaxy but not the other the black hole would have to stop being a black hole before you get to the next galaxy.
Although, if matter could somehow enter a black hole then stepehen theorised that you could enter a black hole and get out at different places along it to enter different galaxies.
I think you are talking about worm holes. This is theoretically correct. It is possible to create a worm hole and travel to different galaxies... now if we could only harness the power of the sun.
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