The True Cycle of a Cannabis Plant and Yellowing Leaves

bullSnot

bullSnot

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
I can only hope this was tongue in cheek, otherwise I feel really bad for people trying to learn
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yas was sarcasm and bad at that.

But as for the post above. He is right on. In fact many Nutrient companies have you cutting back too much N and too MUCH P in the flower phase. Look at Advanced Nutrients Organic line and schedule, that has seemed like the best ratio in a schedule yet. Keep some N and stop feeding too much P.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
A good rule of thumb. If you think its ready, wait one more week.

Very few will be done in 7 weeks. Very few are even true 8 week strains.

I generally expect at least 10 weeks flower. I prefer sativas and sativa crosses.

Pure indicas and indica dominant strains will be the one that can finish as fast as 8.

Every strain I've grown that claimed 8 weeks was never done in that time. Not for my taste anyways. That may have been the very start of the harvest window.
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I've seen one expression of a three way cross ready in 7 from flip (as a projected 8 week finisher) The buds were not as big as others but dense. On the flip side another expression in the same strain needed 9 weeks with far bigger buds but not as dense, 6 and two 3's time/weight wise. Those attributes were also the attributes of two of the originals although a little extra crystal on the 3 crosses but it was like >shrug< whats the point, just run the originals for certainty of what ever attribute you desire. Maybe if you ran enough of the 3cross seeds you'd get a 7 week finisher with big dense buds, dunno if that's how phenos work but surely one hell of an expensive goose chase.

Correct me if wrong but crosses just seem to copy one of the parents, mostly. Or you get a plant with an avg mix of main attributes. Makes me wonder, why not just grow the originals and literally mix a varied amount of each to your desired high in the same grinder. Yeah, a silly thought and way off topic ;p.
 
bullSnot

bullSnot

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
I've seen one expression of a three way cross ready in 7 from flip (as a projected 8 week finisher) The buds were not as big as others but dense. On the flip side another expression in the same strain needed 9 weeks with far bigger buds but not as dense, 6 and two 3's time/weight wise. Those attributes were also the attributes of two of the originals although a little extra crystal on the 3 crosses but it was like >shrug< whats the point, just run the originals for certainty of what ever attribute you desire. Maybe if you ran enough of the 3cross seeds you'd get a 7 week finisher with big dense buds, dunno if that's how phenos work but surely one hell of an expensive goose chase.

Correct me if wrong but crosses just seem to copy one of the parents, mostly. Or you get a plant with an avg mix of main attributes. Makes me wonder, why not just grow the originals and literally mix a varied amount of each to your desired high in the same grinder. Yeah, a silly thought and way off topic ;p.
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When we breed we always breed two like strain parents as well as crosses. this way we have plenty of solid genetics. the rule is 25% of seeds will be Mom Heavy, 25% will be Dad Heavy and 50% will have both.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
bullSnot said:
When we breed we always breed two like strain parents as well as crosses. this way we have plenty of solid genetics. the rule is 25% of seeds will be Mom Heavy, 25% will be Dad Heavy and 50% will have both.
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So what in that would qualify as a pheno?.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Its a little more complicated. Generally the first cross an f1 will be fairly uniform. Subsequent generations will vary more.

How well the parents were worked has some influence. Not so much with new crosses.

F1 crosses are common in ag. It allows for uniform plants with hybrid vigor and keeps people coming back for more.

A well worked line like an inbred (ibl) will be more like heirloom seeds that you can save and grow year after year.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
why use 'Rule of Thumb" when a microscope tells you much more accurately?
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Its a common saying. The color of tricomes is not always accurate. Some exhibit early amber.

Generally its best to use several factors to determine if the plant is done.

If at all confused or new grower and you think its done. Wait a week.
 
deno

deno

Well-Known Member
Are you sure wild cannabis yellows at maturity? The wild stuff around here grows 15 feet, stays dark green well past the time the seeds are popping out, and browns during early October with the fall tree leaf color change. They are magnificent looking plants, with virtually no THC despite being gooey with resin.
 
bullSnot

bullSnot

Well-Known Member
deno said:
Are you sure wild cannabis yellows at maturity? The wild stuff around here grows 15 feet, stays dark green well past the time the seeds are popping out, and browns during early October with the fall tree leaf color change. They are magnificent looking plants, with virtually no THC despite being gooey with resin.
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plants yellow late in flower because HUMANS screwed with them.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
So what in that would qualify as a pheno?.
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Using his description as a baseline.

Each of those Mom or Pop 25% ones will throw differing traits contained within that plants genetic make up.

Then you have the 50% mixed ratio, Now you have twice the available ratio of possibilities. You get common and "rare" phenotypical expression. These could be about anything. Structure, color, size, odor/taste, how it grows and/or any combination of.

Potency pheno's, can go either way.... Some strains it's not terribly hard to hit the "one". Then again, there are those that go out to ratio's that make it very hard to find (for those that don't do large #'s of new strain testing), like say 1:200 - Clockwork Orange is that ratio. You have to understand that even by popping those 200 beans. It's still no guarantee of finding that "1".....You might just hit 3 in a row in the next 25 popped....It's like that.

Once you find "the one". Selfing reduce's the amount of beans to hunt through to find it again. Yes, S1's have pheno expression (I used to think not so much and they tend to be far less)......But as a simple example. You have about a 1:3000 chance of finding a male in S1's - I know, not the best example......How about? Bet you noticed that you get beans from S1's that grow different from each other (size, color, leaf structure, etc). There it is....
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Using his description as a baseline.

Each of those Mom or Pop 25% ones will throw differing traits contained within that plants genetic make up.

Then you have the 50% mixed ratio, Now you have twice the available ratio of possibilities. You get common and "rare" phenotypical expression. These could be about anything. Structure, color, size, odor/taste, how it grows and/or any combination of.

Potency pheno's, can go either way.... Some strains it's not terribly hard to hit the "one". Then again, there are those that go out to ratio's that make it very hard to find (for those that don't do large #'s of new strain testing), like say 1:200 - Clockwork Orange is that ratio. You have to understand that even by popping those 200 beans. It's still no guarantee of finding that "1".....You might just hit 3 in a row in the next 25 popped....It's like that.

Once you find "the one". Selfing reduce's the amount of beans to hunt through to find it again. Yes, S1's have pheno expression (I used to think not so much and they tend to be far less)......But as a simple example. You have about a 1:3000 chance of finding a male in S1's - I know, not the best example......How about? Bet you noticed that you get beans from S1's that grow different from each other (size, color, leaf structure, etc). There it is....
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So a pheno is essentially an expression that better leans toward your goals, in varying degree.

What I am still unclear of though. Is it possible to find a short flowering pheno that can break the limitation of lower yield, or is it still restricted to time is weight. On the flip side is it possible to find a large cola heavy weight pheno that holds onto the distinctive density you feel in some mid size cola plants. It just seems like six and two three's time/weight wise on a yearly basis.

I think what I am asking is does a correlation exist between bud size, density and potency(+high complexity)?. This is ofc in the context of varying pheno flowering times within the same strain.
 
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deno

deno

Well-Known Member
Robustness, color, vigor, smell - all easy to identify. I want potency, and it seems the only way to find out is to flower them out. I wonder how many killer plants have been culled out because they didn't pass other standards.
 
Nealz

Nealz

New Member
AimAim said:
The nutrients that it sucks out of leaves have already been uptaken, converted, and assimilated within the plant, all of which takes energy. The plant is being energy efficient (lazy) and is tapping into nutes it already has on board, i.e. translocating them. Makes sense, plants evolved to be energy efficient.

Kinda like why drive to the grocery store for 5 pounds sugar when you have 5 pounds in the cabinet.
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great analogy
 
bullSnot

bullSnot

Well-Known Member
Guitar Man said:
Cooter, but do you agree with this realistic approach towards proper maturation? The only reason I'm calling this, "Realistic", is because of basing the finishing stage of a Cannabis plant from actual events in nature. I know we tweak and manipulate our plants in the environments we create, but causing a plant to maintain green leaves, when they should be yellow, the plant itself is wondering where the cycle actually is.
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Regarding your last line....Plants don't WONDER, silly!

I have found some strains yellow and some don't and everything in-between. Sometimes humans try to control too much.
 
Loudigity

Loudigity

Well-Known Member
Q

QueenNeem

Member
Fourth year of growing organically, outside in soil & fiber pots, in southern coastal California. I have 47 plants /22 strains (I have a medical for up to 99). I intend to reveg all of the plants just for the heck of it (and it makes me sad as well to just yoink them out after they all work so hard). Anyhow, are there any techniques that would aid in re-vegging? Aside from leaving a few nodes & leaves, what else might I do to keep 'em happy and looking to the future?
 
W

Walter34

Member
Guitar Man said:
In attempting to understand the nature and cycle of a Cannabis plant, many conclude that knowing when a plant is finished is easily seen by watching all of the plants changes, which include; buds are no longer are swelling. Pistils have receded and have turned orange. Trichomes are cloudy/amber via a certain percentage. The strain's approximate flowering cycle in weeks. Leaves have/are turning yellow.

I believe a grower can see when a plant is ready by watching all of these "Signals", without even using a special scope to see when the Trics are a certain color, as Tric color can be seen with the naked eye. But the key is, making sure the plant is "Done".

Now, my real purpose of starting this Thread is to discuss the yellowing of leaves. I have talked to growers who feel that keeping fan leaves green all the way up to harvest is good and that yellowing of leaves at this stage is not the best for a maturing Cannabis plant.

I have done research on this subject, and the Cannabis plant in the wild can tell us something about how she will finish out her life during the final stages of maturity. In the wild, Cannabis will die at the end of Flowering, so the seeded buds can drop into the ground for the next natural grow. This seems logical as we all know that Cannabis didn't come from our Grow Room/Closet.

We also should consider that Cannabis in the wild does die, and the leaves will turn yellow during maturity. I've watched many growers, including myself, become nervous when leaves begin yellowing during the last 2-3 weeks of Flowering, wondering if we over/under-nuted. I'm not so sure that this "Stress" is warranted, as we are simply watching what Cannabis does in the wild, and, this is a firm signal that our plant is entering the final phase of Flowering.

Trying to maintain green leaves all the way and into the final stage of Flowering seems to not only be unnatural, but also confuses a grower to when the plant is actually finished, as this is an important signal to know when to cut our plant(s) down. We also see some comparison to this when we watch Fall colors change our plants/trees during a certain time of year, letting us know the firm signal of a season via a plants color change.

It appears that a Cannabis plant will begin to digest the sugars/proteins/nutrients left over in the green leaves and this is what helps the buds develop fully in potency, size, and readiness. This also gives the grower confidence in the plants development and the time when she is really ready for Harvest.

Just some thoughts of mine...peace GM
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So if flowers look ready for harvest should you cut all nutrients and wait for fan leaves or sugar leaves to start yellowing before you harvest ?
 
H

Huktonponics

Well-Known Member
Ive just finished my 2nd grow of this Sour Josh from Karma Genetics which is a 10+ week strain, so in keeping with my rotation of my other tent which is Platinum Kush Breath Remix from Inhouse Genetics ( the cut is ready in 8 weeks bang on ) I reduced the light schedule on the Sour Josh from 12/12 on first 3 weeks to 10.5 / 13.5 On/off to get them to finnish after my PKB has been chopped, dried and that room reset, and theyve started finishing up beutifully.

I hit them with New Millenium Winter Frost 2 days ago and will give them a 3 day flush with plain water in a day or 2 and they started senescence earlier than i thought, but man they are starting to stink up the place and are sticky as hell. The colours look amazin.

I think ill do this from now on with any 10+ week strains as it really made a difference this run.

These are still getting fed !

When its time, you will see it.sour josh 4.jpgsour josh 3.jpgsour josh 2.jpgsour josh 1.jpg
 
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