The Teabag States of America

TheProfessor

TheProfessor

Member
I don't agree with most of the nonsense that comes out of the tea party movement. I can't find it in myself to align myself with a movement whose most popular proponents are Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck. If there is one thing the tea party'ers are right about it's that we can't afford all this crap....... I suggest we start by slashing military spending by 75%, grant amnesty to all illegal workers so they can pay their fair share of taxes, and legalize and tax all drugs saving billions of dollars spent on incarceration and enforcement and actually earn a revenue. But somehow I don't see Sarah or Glenn touting any of those initiatives any time soon. :wall:
 
Man o' the green

Man o' the green

Active Member
I really don't understand the intense hate and anger toward peaceful protest and freedom of speech. The treatment of the entire movement has shown the first amendment is not sacred to some. Even if it were a totally stupid mob as it is portrayed sometimes, it does not make their voice any less relevant. Why is it that only the extremes are paid any attention, the birthers, racists and other extreme points of view ? Why are only certain groups given pass to be angry ? I'm particularly sad that they are all portrayed as racist, since this is a desperate act of the opposition, and brings nothing to the argument. The treatment of these people has an air of superiority, that their positions are stupid, uninformed, and not as valid.
Trivializing the entire movement based on a few nuts is ridiculous, just as blaming the entire democrat party for its current leadership's extremism.

Can I have a good explanation of why these people don't have a legitimate voice ?

I'm particularly bothered by the win-lose mentality which keeps us divided. It seems an irrational attachment to one's "team", regardless of how they play. At least in sports, if a particular team wins or cheats, it doesn't impact every person in the country. Interpreting the constitution is serous business and should not be ignored, "as long as my side won ..."

Who really disagrees with the core values of lower taxes, less spending and generally smaller government ? If you want to make a valid point, attack this concept instead of the people.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
Man o' the green said:
I really don't understand the intense hate and anger toward peaceful protest and freedom of speech. The treatment of the entire movement has shown the first amendment is not sacred to some. Even if it were a totally stupid mob as it is portrayed sometimes, it does not make their voice any less relevant. Why is it that only the extremes are paid any attention, the birthers, racists and other extreme points of view ? Why are only certain groups given pass to be angry ? I'm particularly sad that they are all portrayed as racist, since this is a desperate act of the opposition, and brings nothing to the argument. The treatment of these people has an air of superiority, that their positions are stupid, uninformed, and not as valid.
Trivializing the entire movement based on a few nuts is ridiculous, just as blaming the entire democrat party for its current leadership's extremism.

Can I have a good explanation of why these people don't have a legitimate voice ?

I'm particularly bothered by the win-lose mentality which keeps us divided. It seems an irrational attachment to one's "team", regardless of how they play. At least in sports, if a particular team wins or cheats, it doesn't impact every person in the country. Interpreting the constitution is serous business and should not be ignored, "as long as my side won ..."

Who really disagrees with the core values of lower taxes, less spending and generally smaller government ? If you want to make a valid point, attack this concept instead of the people.
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Good post Man! The thing that puzzles me is that most of the libs say they don't care for the healthcare bill or much of what's in it. But most of them are gloating as if it were a victory for them. The day this shit was signed into law we all lost. It's not about repubs vs. dems. It's not about Tea Party vs. Coffee Party. It's about "We the people" vs. enormous govt. Perhaps we need to put our competitiveness aside and try to figure out a solution that everyone can live with. One that doesn't grow govt. to an unprecented size and power. :bigjoint:
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
doc111 said:
Good post Man! The thing that puzzles me is that most of the libs say they don't care for the healthcare bill or much of what's in it. But most of them are gloating as if it were a victory for them. The day this shit was signed into law we all lost. It's not about repubs vs. dems. It's not about Tea Party vs. Coffee Party. It's about "We the people" vs. enormous govt. Perhaps we need to put our competitiveness aside and try to figure out a solution that everyone can live with. One that doesn't grow govt. to an unprecented size and power. :bigjoint:
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Outside of the healthcare bill I agree with you. The healthcare bill is a first step in getting what most other first world countries have, universal healthcare. Yeah, I know it is a piece of crap giveaway to the insurance companies, but it does bring some regulation to them. They needed a public option instead of a mandate, but it will come in time. Now as far as smaller government, that could work, but the private sector will have to step up and create more jobs. That would of course entail cutting back on profits to achieve full employment. The private sector has had it their way much too long, cutting jobs and maximizing profits for the already wealthy. They need to share the wealth. Yeah those at the top deserve more, but how much more is the question. We can't go on cutting jobs, wages, benefits and everything that created the middle class and survive as a nation.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
Outside of the healthcare bill I agree with you. The healthcare bill is a first step in getting what most other first world countries have, universal healthcare. Yeah, I know it is a piece of crap giveaway to the insurance companies, but it does bring some regulation to them. They needed a public option instead of a mandate, but it will come in time. Now as far as smaller government, that could work, but the private sector will have to step up and create more jobs. That would of course entail cutting back on profits to achieve full employment. The private sector has had it their way much too long, cutting jobs and maximizing profits for the already wealthy. They need to share the wealth. Yeah those at the top deserve more, but how much more is the question. We can't go on cutting jobs, wages, benefits and everything that created the middle class and survive as a nation.
Click to expand...
I see your points and I agree we have a severe problem in this country. But what is the solution? I just heard something on the news that there are a few insurance companies saying that they may stop insuring kids. Because of the provision that requires them to insure kids regardless of preexisting condition. They say that they aren't required to insure kids so they may stop. This is the type of shit we have to look forward to. The govt. will regulate, and corporations will find ways, sometimes insidious ones, to get around the rules. They will be required to take kids again in 2014 but until then we may not be able to insure our children.

This begs the question "Are the insurance companies in fact evil?". I don't think so. They are feeling the pressure of this "reform". They are going to stoop to dirty shit when backed into a corner. It's instinctive. And what is the driving force behind this? Is it profit, or govt. If we eliminated the ability to turn a profit then we eliminate any kind of incentive to succeed. I don't have the answers but this little example of unintended consequences of the bill deeply troubles me. :peace:
 
RookieoftheYear88

RookieoftheYear88

Well-Known Member
the tea party protesters do have their faults, but the percentage that are radicals are much less than just normal people. And if you knew as much as you were acting like you did, you would realize that many of the protesters are libertarians. so check the libertarian platform and see how they feel about the legalization of drugs. well let me save you the time because i doubt that you would actually check, but they believe that all drugs should be legalized and regulated in order to prevent young people from starting drugs in the first place. So you may agree with them more than you know.

You can not argue that saying that too much spending is going to ruin this country. Check out the national debt (http://www.usdebtclock.org/) and tell me how that is sustainable? How do you pay that off when you keep spending more? And who is funding out debt driven spending? Communist China, since when was that okay with everyone?

Yes, everyone being covered by insurance is a great dream, but it is not feasible. Check out the changes in Massachusetts that have occurred due to their health care reform taking place (reform that strongly represents the reform passed by the national government). Just in this year, there has been a 10% increase in rates due to the fact of reform. (http://www.boston.com/business/healthcare/articles/2009/09/16/health_insurers_plan_10_rise_in_rates/). Look what happened in Hawaii when they gave a government option to insure all children, insuring children is a must in my opinion, but a government option is not the answer. The government plan was so inexpensive that many parents dropped their children from their work inquired insurance and transferred the coverage of their children to the government option, which in barely 6 months overloaded the system. If a government option is offered in the United States the same thing will happen, people will all leave their more expensive insurers and move to the public option.

Not only is spending out of control, but the greatest thing about our government is the rules set in place to offer validity to the bills that are passed. There are so many hoops you must jump through, and so much double checking needed that when a bill does pass it has been groomed to perfection, and if perfection is not obtained then they have to start again. That is why our laws are so widely respected, because of the difficulty to pass them. What must fear you, even if you are a supporter of the Obama presidency is the lengths he was willing to use to pass a piece of legislation. He was willing to use the "Slaughter rule", named for the senator who offered the idea that would "deem" a bill passed that would drastically change 1/6 of our total economy. The threats to push a bill through lessons the validity of the bill itself.

These are the things that people are protesting and there are many more things at that, but to claim that they are all racist, hateful people is absurd and lessons your own argument. This country was founded on the idea that each man is free to make his own decisions and live his life in pursuit of happiness.
 
M

max420thc

Well-Known Member
it was just reported that the economy lost another 25000 jobs last month. the brilliant economists the progressives rely on so much expected a gain of at least 40K jobs.
maybe the hiring of 1 million temporary census workers will offset some of the unemployment for a year.oh yea..17K new IRS agents that will help alot too.
the new health care bill will make it ALOT harder for companys to hire people..good luck proggies on that re election and hoppie changie thing.
 
ChChoda

ChChoda

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
Perhaps we need to put our competitiveness aside and try to figure out a solution that everyone can live with. One that doesn't grow govt. to an unprecented size and power. :bigjoint:
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Republican sweep in '10 and '12. Cut, and, dry. Then start growing the next crop.
 
dukeofbaja

dukeofbaja

New Member
ChChoda said:
Republican sweep in '10 and '12. Cut, and, dry. Then start growing the next crop.
Click to expand...
Because we all know that Republicans will trim the size of government like they did (in reverse) from 2000-2008 - FAIL

And we also all know that we can solve all of our problems by simply voting blindly down party lines - EPIC FAIL

I am starting to doubt the Republican landslide this NOvember that I was earlier predicting....and I still stand behind my prediction that Obama will be re-elected....It's the economy, stupid
 
ChChoda

ChChoda

Well-Known Member
dukeofbaja said:
Because we all know that Republicans will trim the size of government like they did (in reverse) from 2000-2008 - FAIL
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So shrinking the size of government is the litmus test?

I hold up Ronald Reagan as my first Republican example. Which Democrat do you counter with, first? :lol:

dukeofbaja said:
And we also all know that we can solve all of our problems by simply voting blindly down party lines - EPIC FAIL
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Bi-partisanship is what allowed the Republican party to be cast as Democrat light, and rightly so. Your teams recent "affordable health care act" was voted up on straight party lines. I'm grateful for that. Now the voting populace has no excuse for not seeing that partisanship is the only way to get shit done. The only question left for the people to make, is, what do you want to get done?

dukeofbaja said:
....and I still stand behind my prediction that Obama will be re-elected....It's the economy, stupid
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Can anyone say, drill baby drill? Obama knows what he needs to do now in order to keep his new health care welfare program. The mask is back on...he's a patriotic, fiscal conservative, again.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
laughingduck said:
I totally agree with that.
Alll these anti corporation folks do not realize GE bought the election.:-P
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Well said! And not only that, but they don't realize a number of things about corporations.

1. They provide well paying jobs.

2. They provide medical insurance to their employees.

3. They provide retirement plans.

4. They move off-shore in reaction to high corporate tax rates.

5. When they move off-shore, they stop paying Americans good wages. They stop paying for those employee's medical insurance. They stop contributing to American's retirement programs. AND, they stop paying relevant taxes.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
ViRedd said:
Well said! And not only that, but they don't realize a number of things about corporations.

1. They provide well paying jobs.

2. They provide medical insurance to their employees.

3. They provide retirement plans.

4. They move off-shore in reaction to high corporate tax rates.

5. When they move off-shore, they stop paying Americans good wages. They stop paying for those employee's medical insurance. They stop contributing to American's retirement programs. AND, they stop paying relevant taxes.
Click to expand...
No worries mon! The govt. is going to give everybody a good paying job with benefits! They are going to take care of our every need! Just sit back, relax and don't worry, we can trust the govt. They only want what's best for us. :fire:
 
ledphoot

ledphoot

Member
Funny thing about Bush vs. Obama arguments I see here is the failure to realise that these two men are both progressive globalists...

Anti-tea party propaganda is hilarious, the core ideology of the tea party movement is correct, less government, less taxation and a balanced budget. Is that really so much to ask? Is it really so radical? Sounds like common sense to me when you consider the 14 trillion dollar defecit, continued defecit spending and further encroachment upon our individual liberties....

Quit hating and open your eyes.
 
ledphoot

ledphoot

Member
RookieoftheYear88 said:
the tea party protesters do have their faults, but the percentage that are radicals are much less than just normal people. And if you knew as much as you were acting like you did, you would realize that many of the protesters are libertarians. so check the libertarian platform and see how they feel about the legalization of drugs. well let me save you the time because i doubt that you would actually check, but they believe that all drugs should be legalized and regulated in order to prevent young people from starting drugs in the first place. So you may agree with them more than you know.

You can not argue that saying that too much spending is going to ruin this country. Check out the national debt (http://www.usdebtclock.org/) and tell me how that is sustainable? How do you pay that off when you keep spending more? And who is funding out debt driven spending? Communist China, since when was that okay with everyone?

Yes, everyone being covered by insurance is a great dream, but it is not feasible. Check out the changes in Massachusetts that have occurred due to their health care reform taking place (reform that strongly represents the reform passed by the national government). Just in this year, there has been a 10% increase in rates due to the fact of reform. (http://www.boston.com/business/healthcare/articles/2009/09/16/health_insurers_plan_10_rise_in_rates/). Look what happened in Hawaii when they gave a government option to insure all children, insuring children is a must in my opinion, but a government option is not the answer. The government plan was so inexpensive that many parents dropped their children from their work inquired insurance and transferred the coverage of their children to the government option, which in barely 6 months overloaded the system. If a government option is offered in the United States the same thing will happen, people will all leave their more expensive insurers and move to the public option.

Not only is spending out of control, but the greatest thing about our government is the rules set in place to offer validity to the bills that are passed. There are so many hoops you must jump through, and so much double checking needed that when a bill does pass it has been groomed to perfection, and if perfection is not obtained then they have to start again. That is why our laws are so widely respected, because of the difficulty to pass them. What must fear you, even if you are a supporter of the Obama presidency is the lengths he was willing to use to pass a piece of legislation. He was willing to use the "Slaughter rule", named for the senator who offered the idea that would "deem" a bill passed that would drastically change 1/6 of our total economy. The threats to push a bill through lessons the validity of the bill itself.

These are the things that people are protesting and there are many more things at that, but to claim that they are all racist, hateful people is absurd and lessons your own argument. This country was founded on the idea that each man is free to make his own decisions and live his life in pursuit of happiness.
Click to expand...
Very well stated, I agree.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
ledphoot said:
.....the core ideology of the tea party movement is correct, less government, less taxation and a balanced budget. Is that really so much to ask?
Click to expand...
a smaller government is unable to provide the entitlements demanded by the envious mob. as the individual loses importance in our society and personal responsibility is replaced by legislation, our only choice is to allow government to follow its instincts and expand. only a return to the tenets of individual self-reliance will allow us to regain all we are in the process of losing. this is not something that can be instigated by the exhortations of a rival mob. it is a decision that only each individual can make, that can only be taught by example and by necessity.
 
ledphoot

ledphoot

Member
undertheice said:
a smaller government is unable to provide the entitlements demanded by the envious mob. as the individual loses importance in our society and personal responsibility is replaced by legislation, our only choice is to allow government to follow its instincts and expand. only a return to the tenets of individual self-reliance will allow us to regain all we are in the process of losing. this is not something that can be instigated by the exhortations of a rival mob. it is a decision that only each individual can make, that can only be taught by example and by necessity.
Click to expand...
It wont be done out of necessity until the entitlements go away. I wonder if a total collapse is what it will take for this country to realize what went wrong. My only fear is what might rise from the ashes of our once great country after it collapses..
 
RookieoftheYear88

RookieoftheYear88

Well-Known Member
Yessssss my post shut the trash talk down haha sorry guys i'm a political science major, so it is the only thing i read about more than buda haha
 
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