The Sage of South Central comments on taxpayer subsidies.

ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member

[FONT=Palatino,][SIZE=+2]Should taxpayers support your career choice?[/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=-1]Posted: September 6, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

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[FONT=Palatino,]By Larry Elder

[SIZE=-1]© 2007 [/SIZE]

"Don't you think – because of that program – society benefits?" an actor friend of mine asked me recently. She referred to a taxpayer-provided health care program that she "turned to" during one of the many "down periods" during her career.

"Who told you to go into acting?" I said. "Some careers – whether an actor, a baseball player or a ski bum – are high-risk and low-reward. Why should taxpayers support your career choice?"

"But didn't you get scholarships and grants to continue your education past high school?" she asked.

"Yes," I responded, "because, unfortunately, government got into the business of funding students to go to college. I would have preferred to have gone to a bank and applied for money."

"Why would it be better to go to a bank?"


"Well," I said, "taxpayers would not subsidize my college choice and major. Secondly, a lender would likely require a major in something that would lead to a job so that the lender gets repaid. We, therefore, would produce fewer art history, English lit and drama majors. Or students might pursue double majors, so that if the 'dream' career fails to materialize, there is a viable alternative."

I showed her a recent sympathetic article in a major newspaper about the lives and struggle of several New York actors. They, for the most part, happily pursued their high-risk careers while using wit and creativity to survive in a high-cost city. The actors' ages ranged from 34 to 67. In two cases, after the actors' plays ended, they resorted to unemployment compensation. This is actually a government program that pays out-of-work people. Government requires employers to pay an unemployment tax, an inefficient system that discourages people from looking for work. Employers, as with all taxes, pass along the expense by raising prices charged to their consumers. So in the end we, the taxpayer, pay.

In another case an actor obtained, at long last, a government-subsidized apartment for $700 a month. New York, which once had a rich and varied supply of apartments, began rent control during World War II. While this benefits those tenants lucky enough or connected enough to land an apartment, the policy reduces the available supply of apartments and prevents landlords from getting fair market value from their investment.
Question: Should taxpayers, through government programs and policies, support the choices of other people?

Take health care. On the presidential campaign trail, candidates on both sides of the aisle talk of the nation's "health care crisis" and offer varying schemes to use taxpayer money to "solve" the problem of those without health care insurance.

Never mind that of those born in America, 86 percent have health care. Or that many of the so-called 44 million without health care insurance include the estimated 11 to 20 million illegal aliens – only 57 percent of non-citizens have health care insurance. Or that 14 million of those households earning more than $50,000 lack health care insurance, over 7 million of them in households earning more than $75,000. Or that in the 20 years preceding Medicare, a one-day stay in a hospital increased threefold, versus the first 20 years post-Medicare when the same one-day stay in a hospital increased eight times.

What about government welfare? Most high school students read Alexis de Tocqueville's "Democracy in America," the Frenchman's famous examination of what makes America tick. Few read, however, the book he wrote a few years later, called "Memoir on Pauperism."

Tocqueville noticed in the 1830s that despite its wealth, England seemed to have the greatest number of street beggars. Why? England enacted one of the world's first welfare programs. "I am deeply convinced," wrote Tocqueville, "that any permanent, regular administrative system whose aim will be to provide for the needs of the poor will breed more miseries than it can cure, will deprave the population that it wants to help and comfort, will in time reduce the rich to being no more than the tenant-farmers of the poor, will dry up the sources of savings, will stop the accumulation of capital, will retard the development of trade, will benumb human industry and activity, and will culminate by bringing about a violent revolution in the State, when the number of those who receive alms will have become as large as those who give it, and the indigent, no longer being able to take from the impoverished rich the means of providing for his needs, will find it easier to plunder them of all their property at one stroke than to ask for their help."
"So by all means," I told my actor friend, "pursue your dreams. Just do so with your eyes open – and on your own dime."
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K

krime13

Well-Known Member
Ok Vi, what is your solution for the carpenters, labourers, bike messengers,brik layers, house painters, landscapers and the rest of the working poor who could not affort the education than and the cost of healthcare now?
 
Dankdude

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
When Vi Answerers you krime13 the answer will make no sense except to him. It will be elitist and he will suggest that they go to the emergency room. What I think is funny is that over the next election every so called truth that he held dear will no longer be a fact, the country will move on and he will be left wondering what happened.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
VI, Where do you come up with these rediculous arguements. De-Toqueville be damned. There is much need for Tax funded total medical care. As has been said, If you were to get very ill and your insurance denied your claim, I'm betting you'd be screaming to high heavens when the 120K bill came through, I think it would be extremely funny and justified, Instant Karma if you will. Your lack of concern for your fellow man shows a very shallow being, a very selfish man, If I didn't know how mean you were, I could almost feel sorry for you.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Did you guyz read the last paragraph of Larry Elder's article? Here it is again:

Tocqueville noticed in the 1830s that despite its wealth, England seemed to have the greatest number of street beggars. Why? England enacted one of the world's first welfare programs. "I am deeply convinced," wrote Tocqueville, "that any permanent, regular administrative system whose aim will be to provide for the needs of the poor will breed more miseries than it can cure, will deprave the population that it wants to help and comfort, will in time reduce the rich to being no more than the tenant-farmers of the poor, will dry up the sources of savings, will stop the accumulation of capital, will retard the development of trade, will benumb human industry and activity, and will culminate by bringing about a violent revolution in the State, when the number of those who receive alms will have become as large as those who give it, and the indigent, no longer being able to take from the impoverished rich the means of providing for his needs, will find it easier to plunder them of all their property at one stroke than to ask for their help."

Vi

PS: Dank ... I thought you had me on ignore.
 
K

krime13

Well-Known Member
Hey Vi, we had wealfare and medicaid in this country for 50 years, and the rich are still getting richer.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
krime13 said:
Hey Vi, we had wealfare and medicaid in this country for 50 years, and the rich are still getting richer.
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Right ... and that's a good thing. Isn't it great to live in a country that doesn't forbid anyone, including you and me from becoming "rich?" Hell, Krime, I want everyone to become rich, don't you?

Do we have welfare and Medicaid to make the rich poorer?

Here's a great formula for getting out from under poverty:

Bill Cosby's speech.​

Ladies and gentlemen, I really have to ask you to seriously consider what you’ve heard, and now this is the end of the evening so to speak. I heard a prize fight manager say to his fellow who was losing badly, “David, listen to me. It’s not what’s he’s doing to you. It’s what you’re not doing. (laughter).​

Ladies and gentlemen, these people set, they opened the doors, they gave us the right, and today, ladies and gentlemen, in our cities and public schools we have fifty percent drop out. In our own neighborhood, we have men in prison. No longer is a person embarrassed because they’re pregnant without a husband. (clapping) No longer is a boy considered an embarrassment if he tries to run away from being the father of the unmarried child (clapping)
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Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic and lower middle economic people are [not*] holding their end in this deal. In the neighborhood that most of us grew up in, parenting is not going on. (clapping) In the old days, you couldn’t hooky school because every drawn shade was an eye (laughing). And before your mother got off the bus and to the house, she knew exactly where you had gone, who had gone into the house, and where you got on whatever you had one and where you got it from. Parents don’t know that today. ​

I’m talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was two? (clapping) Where were you when he was twelve? (clapping) Where were you when he was eighteen, and how come you don’t know he had a pistol? (clapping) And where is his father, and why don’t you know where he is? And why doesn’t the father show up to talk to this boy? ​

The church is only open on Sunday. And you can’t keep asking Jesus to ask doing things for you (clapping). You can’t keep asking that God will find a way. God is tired of you (clapping and laughing). God was there when they won all those cases. 50 in a row. That’s where God was because these people were doing something. And God said, “I’m going to find a way.” I wasn’t there when God said it… I’m making this up (laughter). But it sounds like what God would do (laughter). ​

We cannot blame white people. White people (clapping) .. white people don’t live over there. They close up the shop early. The Korean ones still don’t know us as well…they stay open 24 hours (laughter).​

I’m looking and I see a man named Kenneth Clark. He and his wife Mamie…Kenneth’s still alive. I have to apologize to him for these people because Kenneth said it straight. He said you have to strengthen yourselves…and we’ve got to have that black doll. And everybody said it. Julian Bond said it. Dick Gregory said it. All these lawyers said it. And you wouldn’t know that anybody had done a damned thing.​

50 percent drop out rate, I’m telling you, and people in jail, and women having children by five, six different men. Under what excuse, I want somebody to love me, and as soon as you have it, you forget to parent. Grandmother, mother, and great grandmother in the same room, raising children, and the child knows nothing about love or respect of any one of the three of them (clapping). All this child knows is “gimme, gimme, gimme.” These people want to buy the friendship of a child….and the child couldn’t care less. Those of us sitting out here who have gone on to some college or whatever we’ve done, we still fear our parents (clapping and laughter). And these people are not parenting. They’re buying things for the kid. $500 sneakers, for what? They won’t buy or spend $250 on Hooked on Phonics. (clapping) ​

A\Kenneth Clark, somewhere in his home in upstate New York…just looking ahead. Thank God, he doesn’t know what’s going on, thank God. But these people, the ones up here in the balcony fought so hard. Looking at the incarcerated, these are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake! Then we all run out and are outraged, “The cops shouldn’t have shot him” What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand? (laughter and clapping). I wanted a piece of pound cake just as bad as anybody else (laughter) And I looked at it and I had no money. And something called parenting said if get caught with it you’re going to embarrass your mother. Not you’re going to get your butt kicked. No. You’re going to embarrass your mother. You’re going to embarrass your family. ​

If knock that girl up, you’re going to have to run away because it’s going to be too embarrassing for your family. In the old days, a girl getting pregnant had to go down South, and then her mother would go down to get her. But the mother had the baby. I said the mother had the baby. The girl didn’t have a baby. The mother had the baby in two weeks. (laughter) We are not parenting. Ladies and gentlemen, listen to these people, they are showing you what’s wrong. People putting their clothes on backwards. –isn’t that a sign of something going on wrong? (laughter) ​

Are you not paying attention, people with their hat on backwards, pants down around the crack. Isn’t that a sign of something, or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up (laughter and clapping ). Isn’t it a sign of something when she’s got her dress all the way up to the crack…and got all kinds of needles and things going through her body. What part of Africa did this come from? (laughter). We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans, they don’t know a damned thing about Africa. With names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed and all that crap and all of them are in jail. (When we give these kinds names to our children, we give them the strength and inspiration in the meaning of those names. What’s the point of giving them strong names if there is not parenting and values backing it up).​

Brown Versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person’s problem. We’ve got to take the neighborhood back (clapping). We’ve got to go in there. Just forget telling your child to go to the Peace Corps. It’s right around the corner. (laughter) It’s standing on the corner. It can’t speak English. It doesn’t want to speak English. I can’t even talk the way these people talk. “Why you ain’t where you is go, ra,” I don’t know who these people are. And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk (laughter). Then I heard the father talk. This is all in the house. You used to talk a certain way on the corner and you got into the house and switched to English. Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can’t land a plane with “why you ain’t…” You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth. There is no Bible that has that kind of language. Where did these people get the idea that they’re moving ahead on this. Well, they know they’re not, they’re just hanging out in the same place, five or six generations sitting in the projects when you’re just supposed to stay there long enough to get a job and move out.​

​
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Now look, I’m telling you. It’s not what they’re doing to us. It’s what we’re not doing. 50 percent drop out. Look, we’re raising our own ingrown immigrants. These people are fighting hard to be ignorant. There’s no English being spoken, and they’re walking and they’re angry. Oh God, they’re angry and they have pistols and they shoot and they do stupid things. And after they kill somebody, they don’t have a plan. Just murder somebody. Boom. Over what? A pizza? And then run to the poor cousin’s house. They sit there and the cousin says “what are you doing here?” “I just killed somebody, man.” “What?” “I just killed somebody, I’ve got to stay here.” “No, you don’t.” “Well, give me some money, I’ll go…” “Where are you going?” “North Carolina.” Everybody wanted to go to North Carolina. But the police know where you’re going because your cousin has a record.

Five or six different children, same woman, eight, ten different husbands or whatever, pretty soon you’re going to have to have DNA cards so you can tell who you’re making love to. You don’t who this is. It might be your grandmother. (laughter) I’m telling you, they’re young enough. Hey, you have a baby when you’re twelve. Your baby turns thirteen and has a baby, how old are you? Huh? Grandmother. By the time you’re twelve, you could have sex with your grandmother, you keep those numbers coming. I’m just predicting.

I’m saying Brown Vs. Board of Education. We’ve got to hit the streets, ladies and gentlemen. I’m winding up, now , no more applause. I’m saying, look at the Black Muslims. There are Black Muslims standing on the street corners and they say so forth and so on, and we’rere laughing at them because they have bean pies and all that, but you don’t read “Black Muslim gunned down while chastising drug dealer.” You don’t read that. They don’t shoot down Black Muslims. You understand me. Muslims tell you to get out of the neighborhood. When you want to clear your neighborhood out, first thing you do is go get the Black Muslims, bean pies and all (laughter). And your neighborhood is then clear. The police can’t do it .

I’m telling you Christians, what’s wrong with you? Why can’t you hit the streets? Why can’t you clean it out yourselves? It’s our time now, ladies and gentlemen. It is our time (clapping). And I’ve got good news for you. It’s not about money. It’s about you doing something ordinarily that we do—get in somebody else’s business. It’s time for you to not accept the language that these people are speaking, which will take them nowhere. What the hell good is Brown V. Board of Education if nobody wants it?

What is it with young girls getting after some girl who wants to still remain a virgin. Who are these sick black people and where did they come from and why haven’t they been parented to shut up? To go up to girls and try to get a club where “you are nobody..,” this is a sickness ladies and gentlemen and we are not paying attention to these children. These are children. They don’t know anything. They don’t have anything. They’re homeless people. All they know how to do is beg. And you give it to them, trying to win their friendship. And what are they good for? And then they stand there in an orange suit and you drop to your knees, “(crying sound) He didn’t do anything, he didn’t do anything.” Yes, he did do it. And you need to have an orange suit on too (laughter, clapping).

So, ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank you for the award (big laughter) and giving me an opportunity to speak because, I mean, this is the future, and all of these people who lined up and done..they’ve got to be wondering what the hell happened. Brown V. Board of Education, these people who marched and were hit in the face with rocks and punched in the face to get an education and we got these knuckleheads walking around who don’t want to learn English (clapping) I know that you all know it. I just want to get you as angry that you ought to be. When you walk around the neighborhood and you see this stuff, that stuff’s not funny. These people are not funny anymore. And that ‘s not brother. And that’s not my sister. They’re faking and they’re dragging me way down because the state, the city and all these people have to pick up the tab on them because they don’t want to accept that they have to study to get an education.

We have to begin to build in the neighborhood, have restaurants, have cleaners, have pharmacies, have real estate, have medical buildings instead of trying to rob them all. And so, ladies and gentlemen, please, Dorothy Height, where ever she’s sitting, she didn’t do all that stuff so that she could hear somebody say “I can’t stand algebra, I can’t stand…and “what you is.” It’s horrible.

Basketball players, multimillionaires can’t write a paragraph. Football players, multimillionaires, can’t read. Yes. Multimillionaires. Well, Brown V Board of Education, where are we today? It’s there. They paved the way. What did we do with it. The white man, he’s laughing, got to be laughing. 50 percent drop out, rest of them in prison.
You got to tell me that if there was parenting, help me, if there was parenting, he wouldn’t have picked up the Coca Cola bottle and walked out with it to get shot in the back of the head. He wouldn’t have. Not if he loved his parents. And not if they were parenting! Not if the father would come home. Not if the boy hadn’t dropped the sperm cell inside of the girl and the girl had said, “No, you have to come back here and be the father of this child.” Not ..“I don’t have to.”

Therefore, you have the pile up of these sweet beautiful things born by nature raised by no one. Give them presents. You’re raising pimps. That’s what a pimp is. A pimp will act nasty to you so you have to go out and get them something. And then you bring it back and maybe he or she hugs you. And that’s why pimp is so famous. They’ve got a drink called the “Pimp-something.” You all wonder what that’s about, don’t you? Well, you’re probably going to let Jesus figure it out for you (laughter). Well, I’ve got something to tell you about Jesus. When you go to the church, look at the stained glass things of Jesus. Look at them. Is Jesus smiling? Not in one picture. So, tell your friends. Let’s try to do something. Let’s try to make Jesus smile. Let’s start parenting. Thank you, thank you (clapping, cheers)​
 
K

krime13

Well-Known Member
...and this is coming from the guy who killed "little rascals"...You avoided my question again Vi, what about the poor working Familys? Where both parents work and simply dont have the time to do the parenting the way they should. When it comes down to a choice between sitting down and reading little Timy a book or roush to a second job to get Timmys medication its pretty sad Vi, dont you think?
 
Dankdude

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
krime13 said:
...and this is coming from the guy who killed "little rascals"...You avoided my question again Vi, what about the poor working Familys? Where both parents work and simply dont have the time to do the parenting the way they should. When it comes down to a choice between sitting down and reading little Timy a book or roush to a second job to get Timmys medication its pretty sad Vi, dont you think?
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No because it would pull money out of Vi's wallet and he wouldn't like that.
Don't bother responding Vi, I can't see it anyway..... Don't that just drive you crazy? :D
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
Dankdude said:
No because it would pull money out of Vi's wallet and he wouldn't like that.
Don't bother responding Vi, I can't see it anyway..... Don't that just drive you crazy? :D
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exemplifying the leftist ideology: head in the sand, throwing insults, being ignorant.






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7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
krime13 said:
...and this is coming from the guy who killed "little rascals"...You avoided my question again Vi, what about the poor working Familys? Where both parents work and simply dont have the time to do the parenting the way they should. When it comes down to a choice between sitting down and reading little Timy a book or roush to a second job to get Timmys medication its pretty sad Vi, dont you think?
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let me ask you this krime, what if we had a fair tax and those people could keep their paycheck - the one they EARN at work all day and night? what if we FIRED the politicians who accept bribe money from criminal special interest groups and felons on the run and quit wasting money on pork projects? what if we ENDED the lawyer lobby and the insane lawsuits against health care people?

honestly, krime, what if we actually gave enough of a damn to really do something about the issues instead of telling the government to do it for us?

when you want to wave these sad kinds of situations around like they somehow prove that we need government intervention you are missing the point! you are, tragically, perpetuating more and more of these kinds of situations by advocating more and more government foul ups in what should be a NON-government system.

i hope you will step back, take a breath, clear you head and look at the world today - this sixth anniversary of the ultimate American government failure. please, let's take responsibility back from them.







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medicineman

medicineman

New Member
7X, relax. Wouldn't it be nice to know that you could go to the Dr. any time you had a problem, and all your family would be covered for any ailment, no matter what the cost. That for a salight tax increase all your medical needs would be met. If they took the profit out of medical it would be much cheaper than the present system. My VA health runs like a fine Swiss watch. The computer has all my medications cross referenced to eliminate any drug interaction, if any of my medical conditions get out of normal, a red flag comes up and I am notified immediately. If I request a service (Such as a colonoscopy), they will set it up with a local provider and within a couple of weeks, or as soon as a spot is available, I'm notified of place and time. These have ranged from 2-6 weeks. If I have a cold or flu, I can do a walk in on any day and a Dr. will see me. When a Dr. sees you, he has all your medical profile in the computer and can treat you without fear of drug interaction. I went to the VA today for my 6 mo. check up and while I was there a gentleman came in feeling poorly and they set him up immediately after a preliminary check with an ambulance ride to the hospital, all covered by VA. I have had two surgeries performed by VA and both were very professional and well carried out. Your premis that the government cannot operate a medical plan is entirely bogus. A VA plan for all would cure the American medical dillema. It is Big Pharma and HMOs, plus the criminal Insurance industries that keep the government out of medical, by removing those scavengers we could afford health care for everyone like the 26 other first world countries.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Again, Med ... if Katrina didn't wake you up, nothing will.

Vi

PS: Krime ... I hope 7x's answer shed some light on the issue for you. He gave you an excellent answer.
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
med, you deserve the best medical care the government can give you. you went to fight in a war in another country and risked your life. that service makes the government of this country indebted to you for the rest of your life. you are entitled to that care because you placed your life on the line in the service of your government.

being BORN here does NOT make me entitled to jack shit except the FREEDOMS that we are still barely holding on to.

being BORN here does NOT entitle ANYONE to anything except the liberty, freedoms and rights established in the Constitution.

i won't give up on you, i know i'll explain this correctly some day, maybe not today but someday. :)

health care is a human commodity, it's a service. there is no pretext, no language and no basis to assume that health care is something that citizens are automatically entitled to it. profit is ONE factor that motivates some of the best and brightest to pursue that line of work; it is their RIGHT to seek profit for their hard work and study. they make you feel better, live longer and have a better life and it's not wrong for them to profit from it. also, most of them DONATE their time and money to certain causes, this makes a huge impact on a lot of people's plight.

there are groups committed to helping people who can't afford to buy insurance or pay their medical bills. there is affordable insurance for anyone who wants it. people can negotiate with doctors. people can raise funds for treatment through charities.

there is no need for socialized medicine in this country.






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medicineman

medicineman

New Member
7xstall said:
med, you deserve the best medical care the government can give you. you went to fight in a war in another country and risked your life. that service makes the government of this country indebted to you for the rest of your life. you are entitled to that care because you placed your life on the line in the service of your government.

being BORN here does NOT make me entitled to jack shit except the FREEDOMS that we are still barely holding on to.

being BORN here does NOT entitle ANYONE to anything except the liberty, freedoms and rights established in the Constitution.

i won't give up on you, i know i'll explain this correctly some day, maybe not today but someday. :)

health care is a human commodity, it's a service. there is no pretext, no language and no basis to assume that health care is something that citizens are automatically entitled to it. profit is ONE factor that motivates some of the best and brightest to pursue that line of work; it is their RIGHT to seek profit for their hard work and study. they make you feel better, live longer and have a better life and it's not wrong for them to profit from it. also, most of them DONATE their time and money to certain causes, this makes a huge impact on a lot of people's plight.

there are groups committed to helping people who can't afford to buy insurance or pay their medical bills. there is affordable insurance for anyone who wants it. people can negotiate with doctors. people can raise funds for treatment through charities.

there is no need for socialized medicine in this country.





I'll not resort to name calling, but you are wrong. Health is a basic right to all citizens of a country where they are taxed for their existence. Don't you believe you should get some benefit for your taxes. Why should we pay for all the criminals to wage wars to enrich the corporate entities while being fleeced by private insurance companies for more of our hard earned money? If the criminals that now run this country were to be put on a controlled economy, we could give our citizens a very comfortable existance. The very nature of capitalism ruins the complacency of brotherly love, or caring for each other. We need to care more about people than money, a huge task I know. It starts pre-school, teaching our children how to love, then progressing into interaction with strangers, (School) and on into maturity. The Idea of competetive sports just hatches the beginnings of Capitalism. The brutality of football decides winners and losers, a concept that should be left behind. We are all winners when we learn to love instead of compete. People working together for a common goal, not working against each other to see who is best could be the beginning of the new age that Jesus said was coming. People that do not understand this concept, will be left behind and probably will start some war and kill each other. I realize this is just words, but this is the salvation of mankind, as war will only destroy us.
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7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
med, it's not a right, it's a privilege. if it was a right your argument wouldn't need to be made and we wouldn't be talking about it.

having the right to bear arms, to speak my mind, to worship God; these things are not acquired and they are not the result of anyone doing anything for me. no one is handing me these rights - that's what makes them rights.

you're talking about forcing people to hand over their service and talent and forcing other people to hand over their money to create this condition that you're incorrectly calling a right. the real name for that is theft.

the problem in the medical world, right now, and this is just reality, is the expensive liability insurance that hospitals and doctors have to buy to protect themselves from the trial lawyers. that's it. fix that problem and health insurance will be much, much cheaper. case closed.






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K

krime13

Well-Known Member
Hi 7x, dont get me wrong, I am all for a fair tax system, lets say 5% of the individuals income and 10% of corporate income, this way Bill Gates and Microsoft alone could take care of our hhealthcare crisis! What do YOU mean by fair tax?
 
7xstall

7xstall

Well-Known Member
krime13 said:
Hi 7x, dont get me wrong, I am all for a fair tax system, lets say 5% of the individuals income and 10% of corporate income, this way Bill Gates and Microsoft alone could take care of our hhealthcare crisis! What do YOU mean by fair tax?
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first, let me say what is not a fair tax. being taxed on the money you earn is not fair. income tax means that government is entitled to a percentage of your production without your consent before you get to reap the rewards of your hard work. the government has wedged itself between you and your employer, stealing your opportunity for a better life by claiming a percent of your earnings for itself and they will bust your door if you don't pay them.

why does the Constitution say voluntary tax? to keep the government from busting doors. the people are not subject to the government, the government is not supposed to be the ruling elite - that's what the war of independence was about! we are supposed to rule the government! my how things have deteriorated.... we spit in the face of all those who took up arms and fought for liberty when we ask the federal government to take another burden off our shoulders and make another decision for us!



a fair tax is voluntary. when i decide to buy something i should be taxed. when the corporations buy 500 staplers they should be taxed. when i buy a CD i should be taxed. you can only tax commerce in a fair system, you can not tax people for going to work, earning a living to pay their rent and buy food or medicine (which should be taxed differently if at all).

there should be no subsidies for anything ever. we should be up in arms just because of this! the federal government does not have any role in redistributing money from my pocket to the bank account of a poorly run, inefficient corporation with a CEO that brings home a multi-million dollar paycheck - no matter what union is involved!





answer me this, krime; if we really do have a health care "crisis" why don't we demand that the trial lawyer lobby leave medicine alone and reform civil courts so that me and you aren't making the corrupt, disgusting, parasite millionaire lawyers richer?

why doesn't anyone hold the greedy lawyers accountable for the damage they have done to each and every family that can barely afford insurance?

the federal government imposed restrictions on competition, allowing artificial state markets where prices are easily controlled and manipulated. why don't we demand that the insurance market not be bound by state lines any longer and competition be allowed?

we the people need to set the agenda, we need to take this job back from the politicians instead of finding more and more OLD ways to give them more control over our lives.







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