The Problem

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ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Many of the problems we are having stem from one of the oldest arguements in the country. The Fight between the Federalists (Hamiltonians) and anti-Federalists (Jeffersonians) and can be found in clause 18 of Artical 1 section 8 of the constitution, which state:

Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

What do you think this means? Does it mean the Government can do anything it finds necessary and proper or does it only apply to power enumerated in the constitution?

And Peanuts are niether Peas nor nuts? Discuss.
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
ilkhan said:
Many of the problems we are having stem from one of the oldest arguements in the country. The Fight between the Federalists (Hamiltonians) and anti-Federalists (Jeffersonians) and can be found in clause 18 of Artical 1 section 8 of the constitution, which state:

Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

What do you think this means? Does it mean the Government can do anything it finds necessary and proper or does it only apply to power enumerated in the constitution?

And Peanuts are niether Peas nor nuts? Discuss.
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Is there a point to debating this, unfortunately the Hamiltonians (the original Banksters) won the argument, and thus we got bogged down with an expansive Federal Government that was not content with actually doing what was itemized as its responsibilites well.

Instead it has consistently sought to expand its scope beyond the limitations, or has ignored the limitations completely.

Going back to the Banksters comment.

Figure this one out. The First Bank of the United States was supposed to be formed with 1 million in capital. $200,000 from each of the four partners, and another $200,000 from the US Government. So the US Government (being manipulated by Hamilton) puts up its $200K. The "Bank" then leds the $200K to one of the partners who uses it to purchase his stake, and then the bank uses the $200K to repeat the cycle with another partner.

In the end, the bank is capitalized with $200,000, but some how has $1,000,000 in assets (Loans) and $800,000 in liabilities (Deposits from Loans) on top of the $200,000 in Specie.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
TheBrutalTruth said:
Is there a point to debating this, unfortunately the Hamiltonians (the original Banksters) won the argument, and thus we got bogged down with an expansive Federal Government that was not content with actually doing what was itemized as its responsibilites well.

Instead it has consistently sought to expand its scope beyond the limitations, or has ignored the limitations completely.

Going back to the Banksters comment.

Figure this one out. The First Bank of the United States was supposed to be formed with 1 million in capital. $200,000 from each of the four partners, and another $200,000 from the US Government. So the US Government (being manipulated by Hamilton) puts up its $200K. The "Bank" then leds the $200K to one of the partners who uses it to purchase his stake, and then the bank uses the $200K to repeat the cycle with another partner.

In the end, the bank is capitalized with $200,000, but some how has $1,000,000 in assets (Loans) and $800,000 in liabilities (Deposits from Loans) on top of the $200,000 in Specie.
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So even your esteemed "Constitutionalists" were running a ponzi scheme. So much for the founding fathers and all the awe they instill in all you righties. They were crooks from the beginning. Trying to push constitutionalism just got a bit more quasi, phony, crooked fuckalls, EH?
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
So even your esteemed "Constitutionalists" were running a ponzi scheme. So much for the founding fathers and all the awe they instill in all you righties. They were crooks from the beginning. Trying to push constitutionalism just got a bit more quasi, phony, crooked fuckalls, EH?
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Uhm, no Hamilton was the original "Living" Constitution Democrat.
 
I

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Who let him do it was Washington Big mistake on his part he opened us up to the messed up system we have now. He should have lisened to Jefferson, Hamilton was bought and payed for by Rothchilds. Actually suprised Jefferson didn't duel him over it really. I should build a "terminator" send him back to off Hamilton world would be a better place.

LOL, Are you Alexander Hamilton?? I'll be back.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
ilkhan said:
Who let him do it was Washington Big mistake on his part he opened us up to the messed up system we have now. He should have lisened to Jefferson, Hamilton was bought and payed for by Rothchilds. Actually suprised Jefferson didn't duel him over it really. I should build a "terminator" send him back to off Hamilton world would be a better place.

LOL, Are you Alexander Hamilton?? I'll be back.
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Still, my tenet that the founders were as corrupt as the new rulers is tight. The founders BTW were the ruling class of the day. They didn't go ask Joe Farmer what he thought about running the country.
 
I

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Statists want it to read :
Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution all other Powers in the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Constitutionalist want it to read :
Clause 18: To make all Laws for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Perhaps this will explain what I am getting at better.
Forgoing Powers means, I think the enumerated powers in Artical 1 section 8

This is still a major issue it is at the heart of big government in this country. The House has HR 450 in now to require all bills to state what enumerated power they come from. And almost all big government spending would relie on this Clause.
 
I

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
There were good ones and bad. Jefferson was one of the good ones Hamilton was missguilded at best. They were representative of their respective states. I didn't matter what Joe Farmer wanted. It mattered that they were "free." I know, I know women, blacks, indians blah blah blah. Mistakes were made its done and over with. Now how to correct their mistakes, to maximise Freedom economic and social, or to reduce it?
 
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