The people behind the Health Care Plan

I didn't write it but I like it.

Congress is going to pass a health care plan:

Written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it,
passed by a Congress that hasn't read it, but exempts themselves from it,
signed by a president that also hasn't read it, and who smokes,
with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes,
overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and
financed by a country that's nearly broke.

You do realize there are several different "plans", don't you? The senate finance bill isn't the only bill.

How do you know nobody in Congress has read it? THEY WROTE THESE BILLS! They've proposed amendments to the bills! Of course they've read the bills. Sheesh.

doobnVA said:

You do realize there are several different "plans", don't you? The senate finance bill isn't the only bill.

How do you know nobody in Congress has read it? THEY WROTE THESE BILLS! They've proposed amendments to the bills! Of course they've read the bills. Sheesh.

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Why comment on something you don't know about it just makes you look foolish. I bet you support Congresscrooks like Dodd.
"A provision was tucked into this year's economic stimulus bill in last-minute, closed-door talks that allowed insurance giant American International Group to pay huge executive bonuses."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091009/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_plain_english_6

1,017 pages

"The minutiae of legal drafting is not necessarily related to understanding the concepts in the bill," said Rep. Earl Pomeroy, D-N.D., who certainly has had his hand in writing laws in nearly 20 years in the House.
"You could literally get lost in the forest for the trees" trying to read it, he said."

"A few weeks ago, the openness issue occupied the Senate Finance Committee for a good portion of a day's work on its health overhaul bill.
Unlike other committees, the Finance panel has traditionally worked from plain English — called conceptual language — rather than legislative text. The reasoning, in part, is that its issues are so abstruse — involving IRS code and other complex items — that some senators argue it's the only practical way to proceed.

Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., sought to prove that point by reading at some length from the bill's legislative text. "By striking amounts for purposes and inserting amounts" and "IV, for 2013, the sum of AA, one-third of the quotient of AA," he said.
Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., replied that Conrad had been talking about a home health care provision that he said had caused a lot of problems.
Conrad corrected him. It was a provision on Medicare managed care plans.

This health care plan is going to be a joke.

Parker said:

Why comment on something you don't know about it just makes you look foolish. I bet you support Congresscrooks like Dodd.
"A provision was tucked into this year's economic stimulus bill in last-minute, closed-door talks that allowed insurance giant American International Group to pay huge executive bonuses."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091009/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_plain_english_6

1,017 pages

"The minutiae of legal drafting is not necessarily related to understanding the concepts in the bill," said Rep. Earl Pomeroy, D-N.D., who certainly has had his hand in writing laws in nearly 20 years in the House.
"You could literally get lost in the forest for the trees" trying to read it, he said."

"A few weeks ago, the openness issue occupied the Senate Finance Committee for a good portion of a day's work on its health overhaul bill.
Unlike other committees, the Finance panel has traditionally worked from plain English — called conceptual language — rather than legislative text. The reasoning, in part, is that its issues are so abstruse — involving IRS code and other complex items — that some senators argue it's the only practical way to proceed.

Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., sought to prove that point by reading at some length from the bill's legislative text. "By striking amounts for purposes and inserting amounts" and "IV, for 2013, the sum of AA, one-third of the quotient of AA," he said.
Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., replied that Conrad had been talking about a home health care provision that he said had caused a lot of problems.
Conrad corrected him. It was a provision on Medicare managed care plans.

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We are talking about the senate finance committee health care bill, not the stimulus bill.

Congress has been debating this bill for months. You don't think any of them have read it?


I'd say that makes YOU look pretty foolish.

doobnVA said:

We are talking about the senate finance committee health care bill, not the stimulus bill.

Congress has been debating this bill for months. You don't think any of them have read it?


I'd say that makes YOU look pretty foolish.

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I gave you an example of Congress not reading bills. Like the saying goes you can lead a jackass to water but you can't make her drink.

Parker said:

I gave you an example of Congress not reading bills. Like the saying goes you can lead a jackass to water but you can't make her drink.

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Your example does not apply to THIS BILL.

Have you not been watching the legislators debate this bill? They have read it if they know what's in it well enough to debate it, no?

Have YOU read it?

Parker said:

I didn't write it but I like it.

Congress is going to pass a health care plan:

Written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it,
passed by a Congress that hasn't read it, but exempts themselves from it,
signed by a president that also hasn't read it, and who smokes,
with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes,
overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and
financed by a country that's nearly broke.

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Nice. Don't forget some people that don't want it and won't use it will be forced to pay for it too.

Iron Lion Zion said:

This health care plan is going to be a joke.

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Agreed, but the truth of the matter is, it has little to actually do with getting people the healthcare/treatment they need, but is entirely about CONTROL. Centralizing the control is paramount to the socialist agenda, and healthcare is/has long been the easiest way to propagandize the idiot masses into it.

doobnVA said:

You do realize there are several different "plans", don't you?

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only one can be enacted into law and that one will be so perverted by political agenda as to be nearly useless. filled with last minute demands and agenda driven pork by the likes of reid and pelosi, we can count on a bill so far removed from reality that it will be unrecognizable when compared to any previous drafts. regardless of the wishes of the people, it will contain such nonsense as an easily corrupted public option, under the control of government's petty bureaucrats and so badly managed it will soon become as much of a drag on the economy as the rest of the liberal establishment's do-nothing social programs. it will provide positions for millions of new government bureaucrats, spending their days inventing hoops for us to jump through and creating their petty fiefdoms. it will serve to expand an already bloated government payroll and place millions more american citizens and businesses more firmly under the thumb of the state. it will create a new avenue of waste and a source of funds for the totally unrelated pet projects of any politician or special interest group with their hand out. it won't reduce what corruption does exist in the insurance industry or do anything about the waste built into existing government run health programs, though i'm sure they will make that claim and invent statistics to prove what a good job they are doing of it. and finally; it will serve only to expand the welfare state and its accompanying culture of entitlement and it won't be in the best interests of the people or that of the nation.

how do we know all this? because we've been paying attention. we've watched as, under the guise of national security, our government has pushed through legislation that serves mainly to expand the bureaucracy's power over the individual and limit our freedoms whenever they deem it necessary. we've watched as, driven by the urgency of our economic meltdown, our government has instituted a series of stimulus and bailout packages that stimulate only the salivary glands of power hungry political animals, seeking to expand their spheres of influence, and bail out only selected institutions, giving them the capacity to further consolidate the country's financial power and invest it in a few corporations and special interest groups beholden to the liberal establishment. we are now watching as, pressed by the imaginary demands of a so-called broken system, another huge chunk of our economy is being placed in the hands of the very people who have been incapable of regulating it in the first place. the happy (or is it unhappy?) coincidence of all these emergencies isn't lost on anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together. our unresponsive representatives know how little time they have, once their power grabbing schemes are made public, to pass the necessary legislation, before the people realize how their rights are being eroded and their freedoms lost. we've been watching it all and we are no longer amused.

who is this "we" i've been talking about? we are the individual. we have reveled in the protections granted us by the constitution and the promise of self-determination guaranteed us by founders of this nation. we come from a number of different backgrounds. some of us were revolutionaries and others were complacent wage slaves. we are true liberals and true conservatives (not those lackeys of the totalitarian regime or the posers of the religious right), rich and poor, we come in all colors, shapes and sizes. we run the political spectrum, but we are not willing to blindly follow any corrupted leadership down the road to their orwellian wet dreams. i've lost count of the number of folks i've watched drop completely off the grid, their contributions lost to the society at large. i've given up hoping there will be some end to the businesses forced to close by inane restrictions or obliged to move their concerns to more favorable climes, fleeing the intrusion of nanny state taxation and constraint. i'm tired of contemplating a rather bleak future, where government has become the parent to the herd and we all live peacefully in our comfortable poverty.





i know, i know. i started rambling somewhere down the line, but you've got to give me a bit of a break. i started this damn post over an hour ago and i just don't seem to be able to avoid the intrusions. start and stop, start and stop, start and stop. i can't type out more than a couple of sentences without the real world demanding my attention. hey, at least i managed to get eveyting speelt curektly.

^^^^
What he said!
Very nice job undertheice.
Bravo!

doobnVA said:

Your example does not apply to THIS BILL.

Have you not been watching the legislators debate this bill? They have read it if they know what's in it well enough to debate it, no?

Have YOU read it?

Click to expand...

YOU are clueless. The post was about congress not reading and understanding the bill. I even showed you one example of a congress member not understanding it. Members of Congress have made the same comments I have. Did YOU read the article in the link?

They don't have to understand the Bill in order to profit from it.

From USA today (a liberal ragsheet but accurate in this article):

"WASHINGTON — When Iowa Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley staged a $1,000-per-person fundraiser at a Capitol Hill restaurant in June, insurance company Aflac helped to host.
Later that week, lobbyists for physicians' groups attended a fundraiser for Rep. George Miller, D-Calif.

TABLE: Health industry donations to lawmakers"

Table:
SenateAlexander, LamarRTenn.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$5,000$12,800$17,800 HouseAltmire, JasonDPa.Education & Labor$35,550$29,523$65,073HouseAndrews, RobertDN.J.Education & Labor$9,000$10,600$19,600HouseBaldwin, TammyDWis.Energy & Commerce$6,500$4,050$10,550HouseBarrow, JohnDGa.Energy & Commerce$16,500$12,900$29,400HouseBarton, JoeRTexasEnergy & Commerce$15,900$52,500$68,400SenateBaucus, MaxDMont.Finance$86,500$34,500$121,000HouseBecerra, XavierDCalif.Ways & Means$76,900$49,727$126,627HouseBerkley, ShelleyDNev.Ways & Means$25,850$29,250$55,100HouseBiggert, JudyRIll.Education & Labor$4,700$6,000$10,700SenateBingaman, JeffDN.M.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$2,000$0$2,000HouseBishop, RobRUtahEducation & Labor$2,000$0$2,000HouseBishop, TimothyDN.Y.Education & Labor$10,400$2,000$12,400HouseBlackburn, MarshaRTenn.Energy & Commerce$14,750$14,929$29,679HouseBlumenauer, EarlDOre.Ways & Means$12,500$23,000$35,500HouseBlunt, RoyRMo.Energy & Commerce$45,800$88,700$134,500HouseBono Mack, MaryRCalif.Energy & Commerce$14,600$4,800$19,400HouseBoucher, RickDVa.Energy & Commerce$5,000$-1,000$4,000HouseBoustany, CharlesRLa.Ways & Means$46,450$16,250$62,700HouseBrady, KevinRTexasWays & Means$9,000$1,000$10,000HouseBraley, BruceDIowaEnergy & Commerce$17,000$36,000$53,000SenateBrown, SherrodDOhioHealth, Ed., Labor, Pensions$40,250$81,482$121,732HouseBrown-Waite, GinnyRFla.Ways & Means$3,000$12,250$15,250SenateBunning, JimRKy.Finance$23,150$28,350$51,500HouseBurgess, MichaelRTexasEnergy & Commerce$29,400$49,250$78,650SenateBurr, RichardRN.C.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$74,550$85,600$160,150HouseButterfield, G.K.DN.C.Energy & Commerce$5,500$12,000$17,500HouseBuyer, SteveRInd.Energy & Commerce$5,500$13,750$19,250HouseCamp, DaveRMich.Ways & Means$42,500$54,750$97,250HouseCantor, EricRVa.Ways & Means$103,050$96,500$199,550SenateCantwell, MariaDWash.Finance$11,250$0$11,250HouseCapps, LoisDCalif.Energy & Commerce$12,500$33,650$46,150SenateCarper, TomDDel.Finance$35,040$30,150$65,190SenateCasey, RobertDPa.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$10,250$21,900$32,150HouseCassidy, BillRLa.Education & Labor$36,250$24,150$60,400HouseCastle, MikeRDel.Education & Labor$12,500$8,500$21,000HouseCastor, KathyDFla.Energy & Commerce$4,950$8,900$13,850DelegateChristensen, DonnaDV.I.Energy & Commerce$11,819$7,000$18,819HouseClarke, YvetteDN.Y.Education & Labor$7,550$6,000$13,550SenateCoburn, TomROkla.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$8,000$44,390$52,390SenateConrad, KentDN.D.Finance$11,000$25,500$36,500SenateCornyn, JohnRTexasFinance$20,250$30,500$50,750HouseCourtney, JoeDConn.Education & Labor$8,750$9,500$18,250SenateCrapo, MikeRIdahoFinance$21,000$13,750$34,750HouseCrowley, JosephDN.Y.Ways & Means$46,850$54,072$100,922HouseDavis, ArturDAla.Ways & Means$9,800$-2,000$7,800HouseDavis, DannyDIll.Ways & Means$9,500$14,900$24,400HouseDavis, GeoffRKy.Ways & Means$38,350$20,550$58,900HouseDavis, SusanDCalif.Education & Labor$4,444$1,000$5,444HouseDeal, NathanRGa.Energy & Commerce$29,023$1,500$30,523HouseDeGette, DianaDColo.Energy & Commerce$25,900$20,000$45,900HouseDingell, JohnDMich.Energy & Commerce$22,000$20,000$42,000SenateDodd, ChrisDConn.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$45,500$85,620$131,120HouseDoggett, LloydDTexasWays & Means$66,425$1,750$68,175HouseDoyle, MikeDPa.Energy & Commerce$3,500$2,500$6,000HouseEhlers, VernonRMich.Education & Labor$3,550$3,100$6,650HouseEngel, EliotDN.Y.Energy & Commerce$6,000$12,500$18,500SenateEnsign, JohnRNev.Finance$31,250$8,000$39,250SenateEnzi, MikeRWyo.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$9,000$7,000$16,000HouseEshoo, AnnaDCalif.Energy & Commerce$43,500$31,900$75,400HouseEtheridge, BobDN.C.Ways & Means$13,250$28,200$41,450HouseFudge, MarciaDOhioEducation & Labor$1,000$9,900$10,900HouseGingrey, PhilRGa.Energy & Commerce$9,200$53,400$62,600HouseGonzalez, CharlesDTexasEnergy & Commerce$3,000$13,150$16,150HouseGordon, BartDTenn.Energy & Commerce$2,000$19,250$21,250SenateGrassley, ChuckRIowaFinance$53,200$125,800$179,000HouseGreen, GeneDTexasEnergy & Commerce$2,500$20,000$22,500HouseGrijalva, RaulDAriz.Education & Labor$3,000$0$3,000HouseGuthrie, BrettRKy.Education & Labor$17,000$24,950$41,950SenateHagan, KayDN.C.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$27,500$7,500$35,000HouseHall, RalphRTexasEnergy & Commerce$6,000$8,950$14,950HouseHare, PhilDIll.Education & Labor$4,500$11,000$15,500SenateHarkin, TomDIowaHealth, Ed., Labor, Pensions$19,750$28,000$47,750HouseHarman, JaneDCalif.Energy & Commerce$1,750$2,000$3,750SenateHatch, OrrinRUtahHealth, Ed., Labor, Pensions$58,100$77,052$135,152HouseHeller, DeanRNev.Ways & Means$2,500$13,200$15,700HouseHerger, WallyRCalif.Ways & Means$11,300$17,000$28,300HouseHiggins, BrianDN.Y.Ways & Means$19,300$8,400$27,700HouseHill, BaronDInd.Energy & Commerce$25,000$17,956$42,956HouseHinojosa, RubenDTexasEducation & Labor$4,000$1,000$5,000HouseHirono, MazieDHawaiiEducation & Labor$1,000$7,750$8,750HouseHoekstra, PeterRMich.Education & Labor$2,000$0$2,000HouseHolt, RushDN.J.Education & Labor$0$2,250$2,250HouseHunter, DuncanRCalif.Education & Labor$3,500$6,000$9,500HouseInslee, JayDWash.Energy & Commerce$7,250$22,300$29,550SenateIsakson, JohnnyRGa.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$34,850$41,550$76,400HouseJohnson, SamRTexasWays & Means$250$15,200$15,450SenateKennedy, EdwardDMass.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$4,300$-1,000$3,300SenateKerry, JohnDMass.Finance$5,400$7,500$12,900HouseKildee, DaleDMich.Education & Labor$2,000$6,000$8,000HouseKind, RonDWis.Ways & Means$29,069$39,085$68,154HouseKline, JohnRMinn.Education & Labor$2,250$6,850$9,100HouseKucinich, DennisDOhioEducation & Labor$1,750$0$1,750SenateKyl, JonRAriz.Finance$33,500$10,000$43,500HouseLarson, JohnDConn.Ways & Means$15,500$56,823$72,323HouseLevin, SandyDMich.Ways & Means$19,000$12,300$31,300HouseLewis, JohnDGa.Ways & Means$10,750$1,250$12,000SenateLincoln, BlancheDArk.Finance$220,850$104,500$325,350HouseLoebsack, DaveDIowaEducation & Labor$7,000$8,750$15,750HouseMarkey, EdDMass.Energy & Commerce$2,000$1,000$3,000HouseMatheson, JimDUtahEnergy & Commerce$52,749$14,000$66,749HouseMatsui, DorisDCalif.Energy & Commerce$7,500$2,250$9,750SenateMcCain, JohnRAriz.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$4,550$18,205$22,755HouseMcCarthy, CarolynDN.Y.Education & Labor$11,650$21,650$33,300HouseMcClintock, TomRCalif.Education & Labor$2,450$1,000$3,450HouseMcDermott, JimDWash.Ways & Means$12,000$3,000$15,000HouseMcKeon, BuckRCalif.Education & Labor$5,750$5,950$11,700HouseMcMorris Rodgers, CathyRWash.Education & Labor$2,750$8,500$11,250HouseMcNerney, JerryDCalif.Energy & Commerce$12,800$13,050$25,850HouseMeek, KendrickDFla.Ways & Means$121,000$76,100$197,100HouseMelancon, CharlieDLa.Energy & Commerce$10,900$26,364$37,264SenateMenendez, RobertDN.J.Finance$0$18,900$18,900SenateMerkley, JeffDOre.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$15,250$3,750$19,000SenateMikulski, BarbaraDMd.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$59,474$42,900$102,374HouseMiller, GeorgeDCalif.Education & Labor$10,000$14,270$24,270SenateMurkowski, LisaRAlaskaHealth, Ed., Labor, Pensions$21,150$20,500$41,650HouseMurphy, ChrisDConn.Energy & Commerce$41,850$8,750$50,600HouseMurphy, TimRPa.Energy & Commerce$28,800$32,900$61,700SenateMurray, PattyDWash.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$108,800$72,900$181,700HouseMyrick, SueRN.C.Energy & Commerce$950$6,750$7,700HouseNeal, RichardDMass.Ways & Means$15,000$31,000$46,000SenateNelson, BillDFla.Finance$9,000$17,300$26,300HouseNunes, DevinRCalif.Ways & Means$1,200$23,000$24,200HousePallone, FrankDN.J.Energy & Commerce$28,750$140,600$169,350HousePascrell, BillDN.J.Ways & Means$32,550$25,700$58,250HousePayne, DonaldDN.J.Education & Labor$1,000$12,000$13,000HousePetri, TomRWis.Education & Labor$200$4,150$4,350DelegatePierluisi, PedroDP.R.Education & Labor$3,500$250$3,750HousePitts, JoeRPa.Energy & Commerce$11,000$7,000$18,000HousePlatts, ToddRPa.Education & Labor$11,200$1,000$12,200HousePolis, JaredDColo.Education & Labor$2,000$-1,000$1,000HousePomeroy, EarlDN.D.Ways & Means$59,035$48,950$107,985HousePrice, TomRGa.Education & Labor$46,650$98,200$144,850HouseRadanovich, GeorgeRCalif.Energy & Commerce$3,500$2,500$6,000HouseRangel, CharlesDN.Y.Ways & Means$54,700$41,600$96,300SenateReed, JackDR.I.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$250$500$750HouseReichert, DaveRWash.Ways & Means$15,700$12,740$28,440SenateRoberts, PatRKan.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$14,000$7,000$21,000SenateRockefeller, JayDW.Va.Finance$2,000$18,500$20,500HouseRoe, PhilRTenn.Education & Labor$0$25,200$25,200HouseRogers, MikeRMich.Energy & Commerce$29,750$59,850$89,600HouseRoskam, PeterRIll.Ways & Means$12,750$13,900$26,650HouseRoss, MikeDArk.Energy & Commerce$32,250$53,350$85,600HouseRush, BobbyDIll.Energy & Commerce$2,000$3,500$5,500HouseRyan, PaulRWis.Ways & Means$16,050$33,605$49,655HouseSanchez, LindaDCalif.Ways & Means$14,000$13,650$27,650SenateSanders, BernieIVt.Health, Ed., Labor, Pensions$1,000$11,500$12,500HouseSarbanes, JohnDMd.Energy & Commerce$2,000$2,900$4,900HouseScalise, SteveRLa.Energy & Commerce$24,300$12,400$36,700HouseSchakowsky, JanDIll.Energy & Commerce$22,900$23,350$46,250SenateSchumer, CharlesDN.Y.Finance$139,850$117,550$257,400HouseSchwartz, AllysonDPa.Ways & Means$69,673$45,773$115,446HouseScott, BobbyDVa.Education & Labor$2,300$250$2,550HouseSestak, JoeDPa.Education & Labor$21,439$24,150$45,589HouseShadegg, JohnRAriz.Energy & Commerce$9,250$6,700$15,950HouseShea-Porter, CarolDN.H.Education & Labor$1,000$0$1,000HouseShimkus, JohnRIll.Energy & Commerce$20,975$16,750$37,725SenateSnowe, OlympiaRMaineFinance$8,500$1,000$9,500HouseSouder, MarkRInd.Education & Labor$4,750$9,250$14,000HouseSpace, ZackDOhioEnergy & Commerce$27,769$16,950$44,719SenateStabenow, DebbieDMich.Finance$26,900$111,340$138,240HouseStark, PeteDCalif.Ways & Means$30,251$1,500$31,751HouseStearns, CliffRFla.Energy & Commerce$3,000$4,350$7,350HouseStupak, BartDMich.Energy & Commerce$12,000$2,400$14,400HouseSullivan, JohnROkla.Energy & Commerce$9,500$8,750$18,250HouseSutton, BettyDOhioEnergy & Commerce$4,000$17,250$21,250HouseTanner, JohnDTenn.Ways & Means$25,500$20,900$46,400HouseTerry, LeeRNeb.Energy & Commerce$13,000$8,659$21,659HouseThompson, GlennRPa.Education & Labor$5,000$8,000$13,000HouseThompson, MikeDCalif.Ways & Means$47,000$20,250$67,250HouseTiberi, PatrickROhioWays & Means$13,000$22,750$35,750HouseTierney, JohnDMass.Education & Labor$-1,000$3,000$2,000HouseTitus, DinaDNev.Education & Labor$14,200$17,150$31,350HouseTonko, PaulDN.Y.Education & Labor$6,750$0$6,750HouseUpton, FredRMich.Energy & Commerce$20,750$6,500$27,250HouseVan Hollen, ChrisDMd.Ways & Means$31,500$24,850$56,350HouseWalden, GregROre.Energy & Commerce$15,000$21,650$36,650HouseWaxman, HenryDCalif.Energy & Commerce$38,950$67,600$106,550HouseWeiner, AnthonyDN.Y.Energy & Commerce$2,000$1,000$3,000HouseWelch, PeterDVt.Energy & Commerce$2,000$3,500$5,500HouseWhitfield, EdRKy.Energy & Commerce$34,800$25,800$60,600HouseWilson, JoeRS.C.Education & Labor$19,250$15,000$34,250HouseWoolsey, LynnDCalif.Education & Labor$2,500$9,425$11,925HouseWu, DavidDOre.Education & Labor$7,000$0$7,000SenateWyden, RonDOre.Finance$93,750$127,700$221,450HouseYarmuth, JohnDKy.Ways & Means$33,950$28,500$62,450

Mcgician said:

Agreed, but the truth of the matter is, it has little to actually do with getting people the healthcare/treatment they need, but is entirely about CONTROL. Centralizing the control is paramount to the socialist agenda, and healthcare is/has long been the easiest way to propagandize the idiot masses into it.

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this is about as fear-mongering, glen beck-induced, uneducated piece of propaganda bullshit I have ever read.

you need to get out more...

the documents which founded this country and gave us all our rights were a handful of pages, why the hell is this healcare bill so long?

fitch303 said:

the documents which founded this country and gave us all our rights were a handful of pages, why the hell is this healthcare bill so long?

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because those documents weren't giving us anything, merely acknowledging the natural rights of man and limiting them to encourage the formation of a workable society. this bill is inventing an entirely new set of rights and determining which of our former rights to eliminate in order to pay for the whole mess.

undertheice said:

because those documents weren't giving us anything, merely acknowledging the natural rights of man and limiting them to encourage the formation of a workable society. this bill is inventing an entirely new set of rights and determining which of our former rights to eliminate in order to pay for the whole mess.

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hear, hear!

lets forget about healthcare right now and worry about the foreclosures that are literally ruining this country, what good is having health insurance if you have no place to live. I dont know what Obama is thinking, help keep people in their homes first then work on health issues altough the government already in charge of social security , medicare ,medicaid and all of these programs are either messed up or bankrupted so why not add healthcare to the mix of b.s. and everybody here knows that 99.9% of poloticians are no different then a crook other than that they dont where a mask.

ViRedd said:

Anyone want to take a stab at this question?: If our representatives in the Congress haven't read the bill ... who wrote it?

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it was him