The Never Ending Abuse of Phosphorous (Bloom foods) to Enhance Flowering

Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
grrower said:
Thanks uncle ben, you may have saved me from a serious fert issue when i begin to flower.
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Good. Your only goal as you finish up your growing cycle is to maintain leaves in a healthy, green condition. If that means giving them a 30-10-10 up to harvest, then that's what you do. N does NOT interfere with the flowering response, unless you're giving your plant pure N in the form of ammonium nitrate, such that the N creates a antagonistic condition of elements like K and Ca.

http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

It's all relative. Folks think that my increasing the application of say....a 4-10-12, they're giving their plants more N. They are not understanding how the parts add up to the whole. They are actually decreasing the levels of N that the plant will use, or "sees".

UB
 
Straight up G

Straight up G

New Member
Uncle Ben said:
I wrote this years ago and thought I'd share it here.

The never ending abuse of Phosphorous to enhance flowering

A common mistake for growers when they reach the flowering stage is to start hitting the plants with a high P fert like a 10-50-10, continuing to use this blend exclusively, and when their plants start experiencing a deficit of N, Ca, Mg or micros as reflected by the dropping of lower leaves and chlorosis, they wonder why. Plants flower as a response to long nights, not because of fert blends high in P. A ratio of 10-60-10 is WAY too high in P. The plant will only take what it needs and compete for other elements that may be more important at the time.

You may have heard that too much N can inhibit flowering. No question about it, exclusive use of a plant food that is rich in N such as blood meal, a 5-1-1 blend, or ammonium nitrate/sulfate may inhibit flowering especially if the phosphorous level is low, but most balanced blends have sufficient amount of P to do the job. The question is - "how much P is enough to support a good flowering response and still retain my leaves?"

Manufacturers/horticulturists will give you element analysis and what effect the elements have on plant growth, but remember this does not necessarily mean you will get better yields. Using a high P fert exclusively during flowering can actually work against you due to impending leaf drop. It's an abundant amount of healthy leaves going into 12/12 and maintaining their health that produces a lot of bud, not high P ferts.

I rotate fert blends as the plant *requires* them, not because it is "the thing to do." For example, when your plants are going thru the stretch phase during early flowering, they may need more N, especially if you're getting some yellowing in the lower leaves. Give up the cannabis paradigms and give them what they need. Go back to mild high P fert when the stretch ends, maintaining the foliage in a healthy state of growth until harvest for maximum yields. A 1-3-2 blend such as Peter's Pro Blossom Booster, 10-30-20, is one of the best flowering blends on the market because of several factors - it is higher in nitrate N and Mg. It is sold under the Jack's Classic label. An added benefit of Peters blends is their use of high quality, very pure salts that will eliminate root burn if used judiciously.

Uncle Ben
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So I am using bio bizz bloom big 2-6-3.5 thats ok isn't it?
 
Straight up G

Straight up G

New Member
I have just "finished" an autoflower grow where pre flower yellowing began from the bottom up but eventually covering the whole 2 plants they leaves went completly brittle and dry and they shrunk to about a centimeter and died..
 
murtymaker

murtymaker

Well-Known Member
Ben... what hydro nute combo do you advise? My Base is the Connoisseur A and B from Advanced Nutrients. Should I add anything else to this or no?

Part A is 4.9 - 0.0 - 3.6
Part B is 1.8 - 5.1 - 6.4

Total is 6.7 - 5.1 - 10

This seems like a good mix on it's own already without adding any other Bloom enhancers like Bigbud and what not... Maybe just some voodoo juice to blossom the roots out. Any advise on the matter? Cheers
 
M

mikegreenthumb

Guest
how does it affect taste if it does at all ( the not flushing) ub ?
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
murtymaker said:
Ben... what hydro nute combo do you advise? My Base is the Connoisseur A and B from Advanced Nutrients. Should I add anything else to this or no?

Part A is 4.9 - 0.0 - 3.6
Part B is 1.8 - 5.1 - 6.4

Total is 6.7 - 5.1 - 10

This seems like a good mix on it's own already without adding any other Bloom enhancers like Bigbud and what not... Maybe just some voodoo juice to blossom the roots out. Any advise on the matter? Cheers
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Try it and see. I assume that you're flowering? Also, you didn't say what the micros are. Root production is put on the back burner once flowering commences. If you didn't get a good root system come 12/12, you never will.

mikegreenthumb said:
how does it affect taste if it does at all ( the not flushing) ub ?
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Do the experiment.
 
M

mikegreenthumb

Guest
Uncle Ben said:
Try it and see. I assume that you're flowering? Also, you didn't say what the micros are. Root production is put on the back burner once flowering commences. If you didn't get a good root system come 12/12, you never will.



Do the experiment.
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im going to, seeing as you havent steered me wrong so far
 
bigman4270

bigman4270

Well-Known Member
Just finished reading the thread and once again science wins. There is no room for feelings or marketing hype in the plant world.

I have always been a facts kind of guy and your answers are supported by Fact's. I went to the libreary and checked out a book called "Botany- A functional approach" by Walter H Muller. I am trying to understand what makes the plant tick and how best to meet their needs that you speak of.

Anyway, glad your here for the help. I am sure I will be calling on you when needed.

Peace,

Big
 
jjmd

jjmd

Well-Known Member
At present I am using Dyna-gro products, Grow and Bloom.
Grow 7-9-5
Bloom 3-12-6

When I go to the Bloom mix I get yellowing. If I mix these what would then be my P-K-N? 10-21-11? or does it go to the highest count of each of the products? 7-12-6. Also if I wanted to just bump up just the P content what do you recomend as an aditive?
 
Great Oden's Raven

Great Oden's Raven

Member
Hey UB.
I'm pretty new to this stuff :dunce: This is a great post. I've been reading along, and I've learned a bit. I recently started using GH Flora Series in soil with amazing results in vegetative growth. The bloom phase suggestions on the instructions would have me raise the P a bit and lower the N...exactly like what you are warning against. Should I just ignore this and keep the veg formula throughout blooming? Do you know anything about General Hydroponics brand? I've heard great things about them, but I'd like to hear your expert opinion.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
bigman4270 said:
I have always been a facts kind of guy and your answers are supported by Fact's. I went to the libreary and checked out a book called "Botany- A functional approach" by Walter H Muller. I am trying to understand what makes the plant tick and how best to meet their needs that you speak of.
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You're on your way to becoming a master gardener. ;)

jjmd said:
At present I am using Dyna-gro products, Grow and Bloom.
Grow 7-9-5
Bloom 3-12-6

When I go to the Bloom mix I get yellowing.
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Then you need to go back to a 9-3-6.

If I mix these what would then be my P-K-N? 10-21-11?
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If 50/50, you'll get a 5-10-5

Great Oden's Raven said:
Hey UB.
I'm pretty new to this stuff :dunce: This is a great post. I've been reading along, and I've learned a bit. I recently started using GH Flora Series in soil with amazing results in vegetative growth. The bloom phase suggestions on the instructions would have me raise the P a bit and lower the N...exactly like what you are warning against. Should I just ignore this and keep the veg formula throughout blooming? Do you know anything about General Hydroponics brand? I've heard great things about them, but I'd like to hear your expert opinion.
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As I've pointed out in numerous other threads, I wouldn't touch GH. Their NPK values are screwed up, micros aren't there with some products. If it's working for you, then go for it.

UB
 
T

TejasRenegade

Member
I'm in dirt...but I have a problem...a bit into flowering they went back into veg and started growing a bunch of new stuff...after a couple of days they went back to flowering....what effect will that have on my flowers if any?
 
M

mikegreenthumb

Guest
TejasRenegade said:
I'm in dirt...but I have a problem...a bit into flowering they went back into veg and started growing a bunch of new stuff...after a couple of days they went back to flowering....what effect will that have on my flowers if any?
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they most likely didnt go back to veg they grew new vegitation to help flowering your buds need those bud leave to help photocenthisis (not spelled right)
 
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