The Matrix - humans as batteries?

Last night the matrix was on amc so I watched most of it while I was doing some gardening, but I can't get over the explanation that machines are harnessing energy from people because the sun is blocked out.

Any electricity or energy generated from a human body/mind must come from somewhere else. The best they could hope to do is convert 100% of the energy they input into the humans into a usable form. The human body could be no more than an engine converting energy from one form to another; it can't magically create any energy.

So where does the energy come from to sustain humans if the sun is blocked out? And why not just convert this energy directly to a usable form?

I didn't watch the entire movie, and i've never seen the sequels, but this just makes no sense to me.

Can anyone shed some light on the subject?

it's a MOVIE, and it's fantasy, not meant to convey reality in any way.

I understand that, and I can suspend disbelief long enough to enjoy the movie, but they are clearly trying to give a legitimate explanation for the premise but it doesn't even make sense.

[video=youtube;wYVdhKVb9WE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYVdhKVb9WE[/video]

guy incognito said:

I understand that, and I can suspend disbelief long enough to enjoy the movie, but they are clearly trying to give a legitimate explanation for the premise but it doesn't even make sense.

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neurons communicate via electricity and chemical reactions.

the premise is that this energy is harnessable.... but it's fake man.

if people would fire up like that every concert or festival would burn down in an electric storm from hell.....

well such can be said for any means we currently use to make use-able energy. most of our power plants produce around 60-80% of the energy they use. that is to say the other 40-20% is given off as a byproduct either as heat into the atmosphere, waste material, or used within the plant to operate. all we are doing is converting the energy stored in coal, gas, uranium, or water pressure built up behind a dam into and use able form of energy. this can be seen in that our first uses of many of these things were for a direct goal, as in using a water wheel to turn a mill, of burning coal to cook with the heat or boil water.

eventually we realized to capabilities of electricity and began converting as much of our energy as possible into electrical energy dew it broad range of usages and its ability to be transfered over long distances and applied to many devices to increase convenience. while this process often wastes over 50% of the actual energy (20 to 40% at the plant and even more in transfer and application) we have it provided at the flip of a switch.

now flip that back to the matrix, they still have the elements required to support organic life on the earth even tho the sun is gone. (sure its not a healthy long fulfilling live but thats beside the point) the human body was simply used as a machine to convert the base elements into heat (like most moder power plants) which presumably they were able to use to make electricity. while i can hardly see this as the most effective means of producing electricity at that day in time it is none the less feasible. (and its creepy as shit and make for a good movie plot)

For the movies sake, yes the body is used to make energy from other materials. the "machines" arent really using much energy, as in they have become super efficient (unlike todays machines). The materials that the "human batteries" are using to convert into energy (which Morpheus explains as BTU's that the body is putting out) is derived of old non producing "batteries". Energy is one of those things that can not be destroyed, but just converted from form to form. Some is lost (not gone, just not usable) during each transfer, and the machines are just great at harnessing every usable portion of it.

Justin00 said:

well such can be said for any means we currently use to make use-able energy. most of our power plants produce around 60-80% of the energy they use. that is to say the other 40-20% is given off as a byproduct either as heat into the atmosphere, waste material, or used within the plant to operate. all we are doing is converting the energy stored in coal, gas, uranium, or water pressure built up behind a dam into and use able form of energy. this can be seen in that our first uses of many of these things were for a direct goal, as in using a water wheel to turn a mill, of burning coal to cook with the heat or boil water.

eventually we realized to capabilities of electricity and began converting as much of our energy as possible into electrical energy dew it broad range of usages and its ability to be transfered over long distances and applied to many devices to increase convenience. while this process often wastes over 50% of the actual energy (20 to 40% at the plant and even more in transfer and application) we have it provided at the flip of a switch.

now flip that back to the matrix, they still have the elements required to support organic life on the earth even tho the sun is gone. (sure its not a healthy long fulfilling live but thats beside the point) the human body was simply used as a machine to convert the base elements into heat (like most moder power plants) which presumably they were able to use to make electricity. while i can hardly see this as the most effective means of producing electricity at that day in time it is none the less feasible.

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The energy all comes from the sun though. That coal and gas you burn to create energy came from the sun. It was simply stored in the form of molecules with a higher energy level.

The way I took the explanation from the movie was that humans are generating all this energy without any explanation of where it originally came from. The humans are not violating the laws of thermodynamics, it must come from somewhere, and they don't really provide an explanation for it.

redivider said:

neurons communicate via electricity and chemical reactions.

the premise is that this energy is harnessable.... but it's fake man.

if people would fire up like that every concert or festival would burn down in an electric storm from hell.....

Click to expand...

Yes I understand the premise, i'm saying it doesn't make any sense. Neurons communicate via electricty and chemical reactions, but where does that energy come from?

It's like me saying all forms of energy are gone, so I created this combustion engine that produces 25,000 btu of energy. Nevermind where the input energy came from, the output is 25,000 btu of heat.

Its an atheist view of the future

guy incognito said:

I understand that, and I can suspend disbelief long enough to enjoy the movie, but they are clearly trying to give a legitimate explanation for the premise but it doesn't even make sense.

Click to expand...

Grumpy' said:

For the movies sake, yes the body is used to make energy from other materials. the "machines" arent really using much energy, as in they have become super efficient (unlike todays machines). The materials that the "human batteries" are using to convert into energy (which Morpheus explains as BTU's that the body is putting out) is derived of old non producing "batteries". Energy is one of those things that can not be destroyed, but just converted from form to form. Some is lost (not gone, just not usable) during each transfer, and the machines are just great at harnessing every usable portion of it.

Click to expand...

So old "batteries" are fed to new batteries? That still doesn't explain where the energy came from originally.

olylifter420 said:

Its an atheist view of the future

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What does atheism have to do with anything? I don't think god is mentioned anywhere in the laws of thermodynamics.

if i understand what you saying right guy, your saying that all energy on earth came from the sun and if we are blocked from the sun it will cease to exist?

if this si the case ill be happy to give you a crash course in standard and quantum physics and the actual laws of conservation of energy and mass. contrary to popular belief the thermo nuclear reactions that happen on such large scales off in space creating suns and stars are fueled by the same materials we have here on earth in most cases. the sun is not a magical creator of energy.

now if you really want to get down to where all the energy came from....well then that is gonna take a turn toward religion and big bang theories.

guy incognito said:

So old "batteries" are fed to new batteries? That still doesn't explain where the energy came from originally.

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It has been going on since the first machine decided to take over. When the planet was still A living thriving place. In the sequels it is explained a bit more. Man and machine in a struggle for the planet and it resources.

another interesting fact about the laws of conservation of mass and energy is that they are subject to change. for example we only recently discovered that mass can be converted to energy and energy can be converted to mass, thus defying the laws of physics to the very core. granted it is a very complicated procedure requiring enormous amounts of energy to simulate the conversion but it is possible and generally excepted to be the means by which mass and matter was created.

Logges said:

[video=youtube;wYVdhKVb9WE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYVdhKVb9WE[/video]

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thats pretty crazy

i think what guy incognito is saying is that the sun gives energy to plants through photosynthesis, and also it heats up the earth. in turn, those plants get eaten and it goes down the food chain. eventually some of it will get into humans when we eat. then its converted to energy/heat for us to use. without the sun, this whole process stops. so where are humans getting their energy from? without the sun, there are no plants. without plants, there arent many animals. so what did the humans eat?

i dont remember the matrix much. but you should watch the sequels incognito. from what i remember they were cool

edit: maybe we found a way to live off the creatures in the bottom of the ocean. they live off thermal vents, so no photosynthesis is required. idk why they dont just get the energy from the thermal vents though lol

Justin00 said:

if i understand what you saying right guy, your saying that all energy on earth came from the sun and if we are blocked from the sun it will cease to exist?

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Essentially.

Justin00 said:

if this si the case ill be happy to give you a crash course in standard and quantum physics and the actual laws of conservation of energy and mass. contrary to popular belief the thermo nuclear reactions that happen on such large scales off in space creating suns and stars are fueled by the same materials we have here on earth in most cases. the sun is not a magical creator of energy.

Click to expand...

I understand how nuclear reactions work and where the energy comes from. This doesn't answer the question though. If they have the technology to utilize fusion it renders the entire "human battery" scenario irrelevant. There would be no purpose in using humans to "generate" energy if you already have a source of energy.

Justin00 said:

now if you really want to get down to where all the energy came from....well then that is gonna take a turn toward religion and big bang theories.

Click to expand...

I have no problem with there being an unchanging finite amount of energy in the universe. Using humans as batteries is what doesn't make sense. Where does the energy come from? Can I just hook up a billion car batteries and run a sustainable society? Do you not see the fundamental problem of charging the batteries (where does THAT energy come from?) and running a society that why? This is my entire point, batteries don't create any energy. They simply store it.

Energy crisis is solved by batteries?

Justin00 said:

another interesting fact about the laws of conservation of mass and energy is that they are subject to change. for example we only recently discovered that mass can be converted to energy and energy can be converted to mass, thus defying the laws of physics to the very core. granted it is a very complicated procedure requiring enormous amounts of energy to simulate the conversion but it is possible and generally excepted to be the means by which mass and matter was created.

Click to expand...

Mass could always be converted to energy and vice versa wether humans understood it or not. The laws did not change, we simply didn't understand them.

Grumpy' said:

It has been going on since the first machine decided to take over. When the planet was still A living thriving place. In the sequels it is explained a bit more. Man and machine in a struggle for the planet and it resources.

Click to expand...

But it's unsustainable. I'll buy that they do that rather than letting the organic molecules go to waste, but it's merely a recovery of energy already put into the system at that point.