The Evolution of the Trichome

tahoe58

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
understood. these are adapative changes that are inherent in most biological organisms. and if/when environments change (again), these adapative change will predominate (again).

so have the needs of the male plant over eons meant (through continuous adaptive change) that they do not need to be "as protected" from the elements as females, and therefore females have the dubious distinction of having more trichomes and more THC. this would suggest that the strong adaptive/evolutionary advantage comes from trichormes/THC protecting the seed production capacity as a more important variable than the other "purposes".

I dunno know...I'm just trying to better understand why males plants are not as potent and therefore shunned. if the real reason for trichomes and THC was all those "other" preventative measures or defensive mechanisms, seems to me that the male plant would have more equal distribution of defense mechanisms (trichomesa) as compared to the female.
 
natmoon

natmoon

Well-Known Member
Females are always well protected in all species that have male and female sexual repro as they have the ability to become true hermaphrodites.
This includes human females whereas the theories that i know of are that a human females ovaries will become testicles and the clitoris will become a small yet effective penis or another one is that one of the females ovaries will become an internal testicle and that when she masturbates she will fertilize her own egg.

This is a theory that is obviously all speculation and applies when and if there are no men left and only several women or 1 woman in the theory where she fertilizes her own egg.

A man however cannot do this but a male cannabis plant can create its own seeds but it is highly unlikely that its seed will produce a real female only severely hermiefied things.:blsmoke:
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
tahoe58 said:
understood. these are adapative changes that are inherent in most biological organisms. and if/when environments change (again), these adapative change will predominate (again).

so have the needs of the male plant over eons meant (through continuous adaptive change) that they do not need to be "as protected" from the elements as females, and therefore females have the dubious distinction of having more trichomes and more THC. this would suggest that the strong adaptive/evolutionary advantage comes from trichormes/THC protecting the seed production capacity as a more important variable than the other "purposes".

I dunno know...I'm just trying to better understand why males plants are not as potent and therefore shunned. if the real reason for trichomes and THC was all those "other" preventative measures or defensive mechanisms, seems to me that the male plant would have more equal distribution of defense mechanisms (trichomesa) as compared to the female.
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This isn't true, a male plant can be just as potent as a female plant. I've only ever read one book about cannabis, and it was by Ed rosenthal, In many strains the male will just be as potent as the female. A male merely finishes quicker and provides less yield.
 
tahoe58

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
interesting thoughts and theories. 'preciate your bringing this forward. spo the evolution of the prduction of concetrated trichmoes and THC was driven primarily to protect the seeds through the direct protection from dessication, fungus/microbes, etc.

In my other thread, I am trying to see if we can further this understanding by exploring the relationship of trichome/THC wirth UVB light. the destructive potential of UVB light is also worth protecting against. so does that mean we should be able to isolate and breed for increased trichome/THC through UVB light manipulation? that's the question I am posting there.
 
tahoe58

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
really? then why do people immediately shat upon them and through them away. why would you not take the necessary precautions and take advantage to make some decent oil or bubblehash...or tincture? :peace:
skunkushybrid said:
This isn't true, a male plant can be just as potent as a female plant. I've only ever read one book about cannabis, and it was by Ed rosenthal, In many strains the male will just be as potent as the female. A male merely finishes quicker and provides less yield.
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closet.cult

closet.cult

New Member
think about it like this:

85% of all genetic material in ALL human's DNA in included in our each of us. Even if you don't look dark, the DNA is there, recessively.

if a plant can't handle the cold, it dies. but it's brother, not too far way, grown from a seed which dropped from the same plant as the dead one, lives because the hearty cold gene is dominate.

plant vigor is based on its environment, assuming it is genetically healthy. evolutionary adaptation takes place on too long a time scale for anyone to see with their eyes, so far as we know.

for example: records show people today live longer and are taller and bigger then the past (thousands of years ago even). is this evolution? no. it is medical and diet awareness that are creating a healthy generation that are reaching their FULL POTENTIAL for body size and mass. like giving a plant everything it needs will create a 'monster'. really, any healthy plant could acheive that with the same care.
 
tahoe58

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
great post.... that is so true...maximizing the genetic potential.....through maximizing favourable environment conditions - we do this for our human children every day. thanks for putting this forward. :peace:

but because we have the option of selectively breeding for particular traits that we desire, and that plant "evolution" can be so-called compressed with ans many as 5 generations in one calender year....with knowledge, experience, commitment, and diligence - could we begin the processs of "creating" a strain that produced a preponderence of trichome/THC under UVB exposure conditions?

Or am I missing the point here?:blsmoke:

closet.cult said:
think about it like this:

85% of all genetic material in ALL human's DNA in included in our each of us. Even if you don't look dark, the DNA is there, recessively.

if a plant can't handle the cold, it dies. but it's brother, not too far way, grown from a seed which dropped from the same plant as the dead one, lives because the hearty cold gene is dominate.

plant vigor is based on its environment, assuming it is genetically healthy. evolutionary adaptation takes place on too long a time scale for anyone to see with their eyes, so far as we know.

for example: records show people today live longer and are taller and bigger then the past (thousands of years ago even). is this evolution? no. it is medical and diet awareness that are creating a healthy generation that are reaching their FULL POTENTIAL for body size and mass. like giving a plant everything it needs will create a 'monster'. really, any healthy plant could acheive that with the same care.
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tahoe58

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
hehehehe good one. I guess there has just been so much said about the uselessness of males that I had myself convinced there was absolutely NO value in retaining a male plant.

In my case. I will have two different rooms, on separate floors of the house (1 top floor and one garage) which I believe will be sufficiently separated that contamination is unlikely....though I would have to be careful not to the the vector of transport myseslf!:blsmoke::mrgreen:

skunkushybrid said:
People that know... do. :mrgreen:
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skunkushybrid said:
Besides, it's hard to keep males safely without threat of them pollinating the fem's. Even a fly could do it.
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closet.cult

closet.cult

New Member
skunkushybrid said:
This isn't true, a male plant can be just as potent as a female plant. I've only ever read one book about cannabis, and it was by Ed rosenthal, In many strains the male will just be as potent as the female. A male merely finishes quicker and provides less yield.
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ineresting. we know THC is produced ONLY in the tricnome glands.

since the male has no flowers and very few leaves it's going to be producing trics at only a few places. but, i suppose if you pulled the trics off using electrostatic means or scraped them off somehow, you could smoke them as hash. but the yeild would be far less then the effort.
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
closet.cult said:
ineresting. we know THC is produced ONLY in the tricnome glands.

since the male has no flowers and very few leaves it's going to be producing trics at only a few places. but, i suppose if you pulled the trics off using electrostatic means or scraped them off somehow, you could smoke them as hash. but the yeild would be far less then the effort.
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A male plant can also flower... although I believe (can't remember) that the optimum time to harvest a male is just before this event occurs. what is the male protecting, it's pollen sacks?

Although the male trich' could be merely left over from when cannabis was a hermaphrodite plant only. I believe it produces enough trich's to help it grow.
 
tahoe58

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
yea Skunk...totally agree. and the survival of the plant...from dessication, fungus/microbes and uv light protection all remain as reasonable means to protecting the pollen sacs...and perpetuating that particular plants genetic material. :mrgreen:

skunkushybrid said:
A male plant can also flower... although I believe (can't remember) that the optimum time to harvest a male is just before this event occurs. what is the male protecting, it's pollen sacks?

Although the male trich' could be merely left over from when cannabis was a hermaphrodite plant only. I believe it produces enough trich's to help it grow.
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closet.cult

closet.cult

New Member
a male plant can flower? i've never head of this? have you seen a male plant. it's a few leaves and alot of pollen sacks. if it flowers it must be a hermi.
 
tahoe58

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
I believe this is a matter of semantics....male plants do flower...that does not mean they produce buds like a female...but a fully flowering male plant )prior to blowing it's load) can have very substantial "flowering" growth.
 
closet.cult

closet.cult

New Member
theres a huge difference between the 'bud' of a female plant and the pollen sacs of a male.

do you mean to say that when a male is producing pollen sacs it is flowering and therefore is producing THC in it's few trics? if that is the case its still a waste of time to collect those few.
 
tahoe58

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
yes...I think that it what I am trying to say. there is significant debate over the "concentration" of trichs for males vs females. you have stated that it is your opinion (and I acknowledge that of many others as well) that males have substantially less trich production and therefore likely lower THC production as well. I do not disagree. I am merely questioning the absolute and unequivocal manner in which many people refer to male plants as useless, and possibly even impotent as it relates to THC, which I am not convinced is founded in fact.
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
A male can be just as potent as a female. Lets not forget that cannabinoids are present in the actual plant itself, and not just the trich's. Trouble with a male is that you get less weight, although it does finish quicker... also you have the problem of not pollinating the fem's. There is a specific time to harvest a male (i read that ed' rose' book back when i first started, I only borrowed it for one night though, so my memory is a little sketchy in this area), and i'm sure you smoke the pollen.
 
closet.cult

closet.cult

New Member
skunk, what you just said does not jive with current research. according to the link i sent you:

The resin spheres contain the THC. It is not contained in the leaf or floral bract. After the resin spheres are dissolved in solvent or dislodged by electrostatic attraction, and a microscopic examination of the leaf or floral bract has revealed that only the glandular trichomes' stalks remain, no effect will be felt after smoking the dried plant material from which the resin spheres have been removed.

which is why you need UVB light during flowering:

If the UVB photon is missing from the light stream(a), or the intensity as expressed in µW/cm2 falls below a certain level(b), the phytochemical process will not be completely energized with only UVA photons which are more penetrating but less energetic, and the harvested resin spheres will have mostly precursor compounds and not fully realized THC(c).

so leaves do not have cannabinoids. if you feel high it is the trics on the leaves giving you a little hit of THC.

so, i understand that males produce 'some' trics. and theTHC in them is just as potent as their female siblings of the same mother/father. they just hardly have any trics so they're not much good for a high. but, if you consider the fact that the precursors NEED UVB light to mature to THC, then the best time to try to smoke anything off a male is around the same time you would harvest the females: late in the year when UVB light is at it's highest, due to the position of the sun.
 
tahoe58

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
do you mean this book? I believe I bought this book in 1971 or 73? can't remember. :mrgreen:



skunkushybrid said:
A male <U>can be&lt/;U> just as potent as a female. Lets not forget that cannabinoids are present in the actual plant itself, and not just the trich's. Trouble with a male is that you get less weight, although it does finish quicker... also you have the problem of not pollinating the fem's. There is a specific time to harvest a male (i read that ed' rose' book back when i first started, I only borrowed it for one night though, so my memory is a little sketchy in this area), and i'm sure you smoke the pollen.
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