The Dilemma

For the purposes of this thread, whatever your religion or lack thereof, let us consider the individual 'Jesus' a bona fide historical and biblical figure:


You find Jesus hanging on the cross.

You have the opportunity to cut him down and save his life.

Others step up to you and say "No, he must perish. This is the price that must be paid for the salvation of your soul. If you cut him down, you face the prospect of suffering for your sins."

What would you do?

I'd cut him down in a heartbeat. But that's just me.

No dilemma. Cut him down. Why would I want to see another human being suffer because some fools think that his dieing would save our non existent eternal souls. Even in the context of the times he was supposed to have lived I would still cut him down, it might be in that day and age I would have been a religious person also, then I would have probably seen the people who wanted me to leave him there as heretics and had them tried for heresy.

Anybody in this day and age would of course cut him down but the question is, Is there anybody who would take his place to let him live ?

It makes no sense. If he's there cut him down.
If someone demands you must sacrifice another for him, then you fight and cut him down.
It's better to die fighting tyranny than to succumb to it.

If someone is in a burning building you fight to get them out, and yourself. You might even die in the attempt.
But what kind of fool would rush in and save people only to stand there and let himself burn in trade.

edit: I also think you would be surprised at the number of people who wouldn't cut him down. Moderates would generally help, but I've talked to both Catholic and Evangelical Christians who would not only leave him there, but would do everything in their power to stop you from saving him, because that's the cost of salvation. I'm just glad there's no evidence for any truth to this afterlife. Even if the people on here that I disagree with or have any contempt for needed to be dragged to safety from a threat, I don't see any other option for me but to try and save them. It's the influence of my damned atheist parents.

If I can remember back to sunday school I think there were big nasty Roman guards keeping you atheists at bay so he couldn't be cut down. Keep in mind that Jesus only had a handful of loyal followers at the time also. He was sold out to the Romans by Judas Iscariot for 30 silver pieces. The citizens of Jerusalem weren't awed by Jesus because he was a humble man and entered the city on an ass (donkey). They expected a grandiose entrance by their messiah who would instantly wipe out the Romans removing them from Judaea. This, of course, didn't happen. So the citizens didn't care about him, thinking he was just some schmo from Nazareth. And you didn't go against the Romans uless you had a death wish. That's your lesson on why he wasn't cut down from the cross in order to be saved.

^haha

I'd have a buddy distract the guards by running around in circles/jumping/yeling/acting a fool, while I "finish" the job if you will No need to let him suffer

I didn't include the Romans because this is about whether or not you would let him die for your own "salvation".

If you had the opportunity to cut him down, would you?

There's no harm in using a hypothetical scenario, because the probability of the biblical scenario actually happening is practically nil. The Romans didn't just keep good records of their citizens. They documented their enemies very well too. And there's zip.

doc111 said:

If I can remember back to sunday school I think there were big nasty Roman guards keeping you atheists at bay so he couldn't be cut down. Keep in mind that Jesus only had a handful of loyal followers at the time also. He was sold out to the Romans by Judas Iscariot for 30 silver pieces. The citizens of Jerusalem weren't awed by Jesus because he was a humble man and entered the city on an ass (donkey). They expected a grandiose entrance by their messiah who would instantly wipe out the Romans removing them from Judaea. This, of course, didn't happen. So the citizens didn't care about him, thinking he was just some schmo from Nazareth. And you didn't go against the Romans uless you had a death wish. That's your lesson on why he wasn't cut down from the cross in order to be saved.

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morgentaler said:

I didn't include the Romans because this is about whether or not you would let him die for your own "salvation".

If you had the opportunity to cut him down, would you?

There's no harm in using a hypothetical scenario, because the probability of the biblical scenario actually happening is practically nil. The Romans didn't just keep good records of their citizens. They documented their enemies very well too. And there's zip.

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The romans didn't keep records of every single person they crucified. They thought he was nothing more than a common criminal, a rabble rouser. The romans had no idea who this man would become historically or biblically speaking. It's been hypothesized by many religious scholars that false messiahs were relatively common then (as they still are today). It's amazing to me how closed minded you seem to be about things of a religious nature, especially biblical history. I never said there was any harm in a hypothetical I just don't see the point. If you are trying to make a point how about you just come out with it.

doc111 said:

The romans didn't keep records of every single person they crucified. They thought he was nothing more than a common criminal, a rabble rouser. The romans had no idea who this man would become historically or biblically speaking. It's been hypothesized by many religious scholars that false messiahs were relatively common then (as they still are today). It's amazing to me how closed minded you seem to be about things of a religious nature, especially biblical history. I never said there was any harm in a hypothetical I just don't see the point. If you are trying to make a point how about you just come out with it.

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My point is, don't dodge the question.
It's funny how hard it is to get a direct answer to it.

And the term is "mythology" not "biblical history".

morgentaler said:

For the purposes of this thread, whatever your religion or lack thereof, let us consider the individual 'Jesus' a bona fide historical and biblical figure:


You find Jesus hanging on the cross.

You have the opportunity to cut him down and save his life.

Others step up to you and say "No, he must perish. This is the price that must be paid for the salvation of your soul. If you cut him down, you face the prospect of suffering for your sins."

What would you do?

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Who are the others that step up. I think if I did cut him down I may face a legal charge, not suffering for a sin. I find it amazing how much you talk about that which you do not believe. So vauge this scenario.

morgentaler said:

My point is, don't dodge the question.
It's funny how hard it is to get a direct answer to it.

And the term is "mythology" not "biblical history".

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I choose not to answer the question. It's a ridiculous one IMO. You talk about being logical. What defines logic? We are products of our environments. Everything you have ever learned, read, or experienced has influenced you and shaped you into the person you are. Nobody has or can possible have all the answers. Things will not always fit into your definition of logic my friend. Isn't it funny how the more we learn the more we realize we don't know? That's the real paradox.

doc111 said:

Isn't it funny how the more we learn the more we realize we don't know? That's the real paradox.

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A creationist would not agree with you
They'd say "look! more gaps to fill with god!"

morgentaler said:

a creationist would not agree with you
they'd say "look! More gaps to fill with god!"

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wtf?????????????????

Woodstock.Hippie said:

I would ask him what he would like me to do.

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Excellent response to a vague and seemingly nonsensical question.

doc111 said:

Excellent response to a vague and seemingly nonsensical question.

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It's not vague. It says "You have the opportunity to cut him down and save his life."

If I had put "Your child" instead of Jesus you'd be able to answer it in a second, and there would almost certainly be no complaining of vague questions.

The mythology says that Jesus had to die for everyone's sins. Would you put that mythology ahead of a life that could be saved?

You can skirt around it saying "Oh, the question is vague and nonsensical". But maybe you're just afraid of what your answer will show about your faith.

morgentaler said:

It's not vague. It says "You have the opportunity to cut him down and save his life."

If I had put "Your child" instead of Jesus you'd be able to answer it in a second, and there would almost certainly be no complaining of vague questions.

The mythology says that Jesus had to die for everyone's sins. Would you put that mythology ahead of a life that could be saved?

You can skirt around it saying "Oh, the question is vague and nonsensical". But maybe you're just afraid of what your answer will show about your faith.

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How can this be when I don't have a faith??????

morgentaler said:

It's not vague. It says "You have the opportunity to cut him down and save his life."

If I had put "Your child" instead of Jesus you'd be able to answer it in a second, and there would almost certainly be no complaining of vague questions.

The mythology says that Jesus had to die for everyone's sins. Would you put that mythology ahead of a life that could be saved?

You can skirt around it saying "Oh, the question is vague and nonsensical". But maybe you're just afraid of what your answer will show about your faith.

Click to expand...

Now you changed the question along with all the variables. Has nothing to do with faith for me either. If I only knew this jesus guy was a criminal I probably would not be at the crucifix, and if I was I would probably believe he deserved to up there.
How would this thread and our everyday actions and decisions be different If we knew right now that It would become myth later in the future and people would still be talking about it in the year 4200.

morgentaler said:

For the purposes of this thread, whatever your religion or lack thereof, let us consider the individual 'Jesus' a bona fide historical and biblical figure:


You find Jesus hanging on the cross.

You have the opportunity to cut him down and save his life.

Others step up to you and say "No, he must perish. This is the price that must be paid for the salvation of your soul. If you cut him down, you face the prospect of suffering for your sins."

What would you do?

Click to expand...

What would you do.
In the myth. Who says or said that he must perish for the salvation of my soul. And Am I supposed to believe that cutting him down was a sinfull act.