The Choice I Never Made...

I have a tough time wrapping my head around this, it would seem all it would take is a little bit of thinking to settle this before it ever escaped anyones mouth, but sadly, I'm so frequently proved wrong I decided to dedicate a thread to it and see what you good people thought...

Belief, and how so many people think it's a conscious "choice" that one makes.

They say "you chose to be an atheist" - alright, that statement is partially correct in that I can't prove God doesn't exist, my atheism is a position of faith. I believe one doesn't. I do not know for sure (about anything) if one exists, therefore I'm an agnostic atheist. But it is literally impossible for me to "choose" to believe in any diety. I can say I do, I can pretend I do, but I wouldn't, not really anyway.

If you're born in America, it's likely you'll end up Christian, Pakistan, probably a Muslim, South America, Catholic, etc. Other factors influence your "decision" that people outright dismiss, this, I feel, disables it from ever being a conscious decision to be made.

Another thing that should be pointed out is the faulty logic behind such a decision if one were to ever even consciously make it in the first place, Heaven v. Hell - I offer you a fat blunt or a .357 round to the forehead and tell you to 'make a choice...', I'm pretty sure I could predict the outcome of that 100% of the time.

So if you believe belief in God is a conscious choice one makes, please explain why. If not, I'm also interested in hearing why you feel that way.

I chose to reject god even though it was pretty much rammed down my throat. I didn't choose to be an atheist, I just let the evidence speak for itself.

Agnostic... There's something somewhere of some importance in someway, as far as what it may be, I am not the least bit certain.

guy incognito said:

I didn't choose to be an atheist, I just let the evidence speak for itself.

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This is the point believers don't seem to get.

Do you "choose" not to be a Muslim or a Jew? No, you look at the evidence and decide there's not enough to convince you, same with Santa Clause, same with the Easter Bunny..

Why don't they understand this?

God Rules !!!

We do not chose to believe in Santa, we are simply taught to until our critical thinking skills tell us better, or else someone lets us in on the secret and we accept it. Some kids figure it out for themselves, some need to be told. At that point they have a choice to continue belief, almost no one makes that choice.

A person may not always make the conscious decision to believe in a deity at first, but if at some point they become aware of all the absurdities and weak assumptions involved in that claim, it then becomes a choice to either ignore the conflict, rationalize it, or be persuaded. Ignorance is built in to religious dogma, and rationalization is a conscious thought process, though it may not be easily recognized. To a believer, this makes those two choices more appealing than persuasion. Just as nearly all kids develop enough critical thinking skills to see through Santa, most people see the reasons to doubt god, but chose not to.

Heisenberg said:

We do not chose to believe in Santa, we are simply taught to until our critical thinking skills tell us better, or else someone lets us in on the secret and we accept it. Some kids figure it out for themselves, some need to be told. At that point they have a choice to continue belief, almost no one makes that choice.

A person may not always make the conscious decision to believe in a deity at first, but if at some point they become aware of all the absurdities and weak assumptions made in that claim, it then becomes a choice to either ignore the conflict, rationalize it, or be persuaded. Just as nearly all kids develop enough critical thinking skills to see through Santa, most people see the reasons to doubt god, but chose not to.

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couldn't have said it better myself

Padawanbater2 said:

Belief, and how so many people think it's a conscious "choice" that one makes.

They say "you chose to be an atheist" - alright, that statement is partially correct in that I can't prove God doesn't exist, my atheism is a position of faith. I believe one doesn't. I do not know for sure (about anything) if one exists, therefore I'm an agnostic atheist. But it is literally impossible for me to "choose" to believe in any deity. I can say I do, I can pretend I do, but I wouldn't, not really anyway.

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whether conscious or unconscious, the decision to believe or refuse the god myth and the religions of the world is a choice. doubt, since we lack any direct evidence of any god's existence, would seem only rational, but to claim a deity's existence or lack thereof goes beyond mere doubt.

claiming that it is impossible for you to believe in a god is one of those politically correct cop outs we use to deny our own culpability. saying "i was born this way" or "the world around me made me this way" display the sentiments of the self-professed victim-hood that denies the power of the human intellect. somewhere along the way you made a choice, the choice to embrace the truth as the vast majority of the population sees it or to press forward that niggling doubt and bring it out of the recesses of your mind.

guy incognito said:

I didn't choose to be an atheist, I just let the evidence speak for itself.

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what evidence? the most that any atheist can claim is that the lack of evidence has given them no reason to believe.

undertheice said:

what evidence? the most that any atheist can claim is that the lack of evidence has given them no reason to believe.

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It's an expression. "The evidence speaks for itself" is generally understood to sometimes refer to the lack of evidence. It is also understood that we are not making any claim such as "god does not exist". Saying "It is impossible for me to believe in god" may be used as a cop out in the context of playing a victim, but it seems clear Pad was really saying "It's impossible to chose to believe in god without first being convinced."

Atheists claim that hell doesn’t exist, which by default mean that they won’t be in danger of going there. But bible has other ideas though, it says “when a wicked man dies, his hope perishes; all he expected from his power comes to nothing” (Proverbs 11:7). It also says “be sure of this: the wicked will not go unpunished…..” (Proverbs 11:21).
All men are unrighteous, so, they need a Savior, so they need to believe in Jesus
and accept Him as their Savior.
If they or anyone does not, they go to hell.
It's really a simple rule.
I heard hell sucks- God Rules, Jesus Is King !

beardo said:

Atheists claim that hell doesn’t exist, which by default mean that they won’t be in danger of going there. But bible has other ideas though, it says “when a wicked man dies, his hope perishes; all he expected from his power comes to nothing” (Proverbs 11:7). It also says “be sure of this: the wicked will not go unpunished…..” (Proverbs 11:21).
All men are unrighteous, so, they need a Savior, so they need to believe in Jesus
and accept Him as their Savior.
If they or anyone does not, they go to hell.
It's really a simple rule.
I heard hell sucks- God Rules, Jesus Is King !

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People arnt perfect - no argument there
Beliefs from fear - a fallacy of logic

my 3 cents worth.


Christianity, or any organized religeon, including Muslim, Any Christian faith, ie catholoism, luthern, baptist, 7th Day Adventist, Morman, JCLDS, ect... are mostly a bunch of hypocrits blindly following what someone 2,000 years ago said was the son of god.


Doest God, in the earliest scriptures known to humans, tell us to beware Decievers, claiming to be God Himself, or his main emersary? doesnt god go on to say, the lies spoken by the unrightous, will be so factual, and so full of rightousness, that we humans will simply say, oh, this is the path GOD wants us to follow, and will do so like sheep. to me, this explains Christainity quite well.

dont question us, just give us your money and blindly follow.

i know thats not the path the real GOD wants us to follow.

Yes i do believe in a GOD. an all knowing, all powerfull, all encompassing being, but i dont see him in any organized religeon. I do NOT believe in organized religeon. as all organized religeons i am currently aware of, are so Ripe with Hypocracy, Evil, and Bad, and oppressive motives, they just can not be the rightous word of the almighty God of all.


no im not agnostic, nor athiest, which i used to be both as i was growing up as a teen/young adult. Nor am i Christian, nor Polically Correct.

I am simply a humanbeing, with the good nature, good heart, and good soul that wants to see ALL GOOD MANKIND, prosper and live an enriched and gifted life. With that said, i would like to see all NON Good humans left wanton and hungry for eternity with the desire to be a good humanbeing only.

beardo said:

Atheists claim that hell doesn’t exist

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Some people claim hell doesn't exist. Those people make this claim in addition to and outside of atheism. Atheists simply remain unconvinced there is a hell, which is much different than claiming there isn't one.

Heisenberg said:

Some people claim hell doesn't exist. Those people make this claim in addition to and outside of atheism. Atheists simply remain unconvinced there is a hell, which is much different than claiming there isn't one.

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I'm pretty sure your wrong and that if you feel that way your not atheist your Agnostic
Atheists do not believe in god Agnostics say it is unprovable.
Agnosticism

beardo said:

I'm pretty sure your wrong and that if you feel that way your not atheist your Agnostic
Atheists do not believe in god Agnostics say it is unprovable.
Agnosticism

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Knowing that someone is an atheist simply tells you that they are not convinced of god. It does not tell you the reasons they are unconvinced of god. It tells you precisely how someone responds to one specific claim. You can not go on to assume the atheist makes a claim himself; that they are convinced there is no god. Some atheists make that claim, but they do so in addition to atheism. An atheist simply remains unconvinced until something convincing happens (evidence, divine experience, ect) to justify belief. Many atheists have high standards for what this evidence can be, but that is not the same as stepping up to make the claim that god is not real. An atheist sets a standard for believing something, and then does not believe a claim until those standards have been met. This of course means, if the standards are met, the rational atheist will believe.

Agnosticism is only an opinion about knowledge, whether something is knowable or not.

So back to the orginal post the choice,,,,,,, have any you ever found it odd that humans whorship in general spread across time and oceans,land humans find gods or things to whorship almost like where genticaly programed to do so .............................

Heisenberg said:

Knowing that someone is an atheist simply tells you that they are not convinced of god. It does not tell you the reasons they are unconvinced of god. It tells you precisely how someone responds to one specific claim. You can not go on to assume the atheist makes a claim himself; that they are convinced there is no god. Some atheists make that claim, but they do so in addition to atheism. An atheist simply remains unconvinced until something convincing happens (evidence, divine experience, ect) to justify belief. Many atheists have high standards for what this evidence can be, but that is not the same as stepping up to make the claim that god is not real. An atheist sets a standard for believing something, and then does not believe a claim until those standards have been met. This of course means, if the standards are met, the rational atheist will believe.

Agnosticism is only an opinion about knowledge, whether something is knowable or not.

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Your still wrong but it's cool.
What your describing is Agnostic, Not Atheist but I already explained that-an Atheist by definition believes their is no God

a summation.


i exist. i think, theirfore i reconize my existance. i reconize my existance as a string if occurances run togther in a string of time as i understand it. considering, i think, i reconize that i think, i can intermingle with these occurances, then said occurances shape my next moment in time, then it only seems logical, if i can do this, then others can to. simple mathmatical principles as the "Law of Averages" nearly proves others like us exist. so If others like us exist, then they must also exist on different levels of knowledge, understanding, higher cognative reasoning, ect.... which would also include a more indepth knowlege of the universe.

now here on lil ole earth, many believe that god is a sigular being. One higher entity. and while i can understand, and even relate to this train of thought, it still leaves much to be desired for me for an explanation of what GOD is. I have for a long time held the beleive, GOD isnt so much of a Who, but a What. And its my current beliefe, that god is one of a few things, as we humans can understand to be:

1. God is a singular being as most popularly held to be the case.
2. God is not a singular being, but rather a being, or race of beings of higher intelligence, that thru genetic manipulation of their own genome, and available genomes available here on earth, ie Chromagnum, or Homo Erectous, perhaps both, created the "evolution" if you will to our current species.
3. Evolutionist. simple to understand. these folks dont believe in higher power, except the one monocur of "survival of the fitest" train of thought.
4. their isnt nothing else ( if you beleive in science, then you believe in mathmatics, then you must believe in the law of averages, as without it, then nothing EVER happens out of pure chance). these folks just exist. being good or bad is just a choice.

and finially my own train of thought.
5. God is the accumulation of all scencient beings core energy, spirit, or even soul if you will. Our collective inner life force, which is what sets us appart from much of any other known type of lifeforce to exist here on earth, in our current knowledge of life past and presant.



Simply put, imo, GOD is the energyforce of All Sentient life forces, anywhere and everywhere, in every plain of existance, in every rehlm of reality, and in every moment of time spanning all of time itself. it is the essence of being sentient beingd in existance in any given point in space simutaniously, that creates what i believe to be GOD. thus thier is only one overall force, but its made from the core commonality of just being scentient beings.

billy4479 said:

So back to the orginal post the choice,,,,,,, have any you ever found it odd that humans whorship in general spread across time and oceans,land humans find gods or things to whorship almost like where genticaly programed to do so .............................

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We are programed to know God and to seek a connection with him, that's the meaning of life be good surround yourself with good people have a family be right with God get old and die.

beardo said:

Your still wrong but it's cool.
What your describing is Agnostic, Not Atheist but I already explained that-an Atheist by definition believes their is no God

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This is part of the problem. YOU are wrong on this one beardo, Heis is right.

You have to recognize that if the conversation is to continue productively.

If you still think he's wrong, don't just say "your wrong", explain why.