The Biggest Misconception In Indoor Lighting Broken Down By Dgl

dgl

Member
Hey guys DGL Here from Luigis Coop In So-Cal Gonna Drop a bit of Knowledge please read the Article Until the end Before you Comment

Before We Begin Let me give you a bit of info on my Grow Space I Flower Under Tables each Table has a 1000wattt 2K hps Hortuilux and a 1000watt 10k MH Solis-Tek Both Within A Raptor Dual Bulb Hood, The Size of each table is 5 Feet Wide x 6 Feet Long And i pull 3LB's Per Table on Average in a sealed Environment with 1000ppm C02 know lets begin.


The Biggest misconception in Indoor Lighting Is that you can Use HPS Bulb's Alone to Fully Energize every photosynthetic Process within a cannabis plant.

The biggest misconception in indoor lighting is that photo-synthetically active photon's(HPS Bulb's Primary Spectrum) fluctuated at a low density(core and coil ballast) or high density(digital ballast) will equal full photosynthesis this is a lie because you need more then just photons that are able to be taken in by Chlorophyll A & B Receptors to produce full photosynthesis........... even emitting photons within a certain nanometer range that chlorophyll A & B Receptors Cannot Take in for energy will still energize photosynthetic processes(UVA, UVB).

you need to emit high amounts of UVA, And UVB for multiple reasons that will be discussed but the main reason is if you do not emit UVA / UVB Spectra onto the trychomb spheres you will have pure molecule precursors of terpines, flavanoids, THC, cbd's, etc... and no actual compounds of essential oils within thrychomb spheres pure precursor molecules.

By Ed Rosenthal On UVB

UVB from 290 nm to 320 nm is useful to plants that use it to
produce flavonoids and terpenes, including THC in cannabis. UVA from 320 nm to 400 nm
is also very important for plant growth and is able to contribute to photosynthesis as well as
other responses such as phototropism.


But the best standalone Grow-light in the industry for the ENTIRE bloom phase is Hortilux HPS this Light Bulb Produces Baisically NO UVB From the Nano-meter range of 290 nm - 320 nm, remember UVB is less energetic but more penetrating to the canopy!, to amlost No UVA From the NM range of 320 nm - 400 nm which is more energetic but less penetrating to the canopy, Lets take a look at the Single Ended 1000 watt Super HPS Grow Lights Spectrum By Hortilux
LU1000BHTLEN.png.4ac067c036d9a591a81bb3d02942fc17.png
Notice how Hortilux Spectrum doesn't even Show 290-400nm Then Lets See a 10K MH Spectrum My Favorite Choice as Supplemental lighting for The Entire Bloom Phase.
10kspectrum.png.663172d10e53e44b262ada75ae921a52.png
So why is Hortilux Considered the best Grow Light In this Industry? Because it Produces the Most Spectral Energy out of any other bulb on the market and most of that spectral energy is Within The PAR Nano-Meter Range which is simply 480 NM - 720 NM of the light spectrum and when photons are emitted within this nano-meter range which is 480-720 NM photons are then able to be taken in by Chlorophyll A & B Receptors. So Will A Hortilux HPS give you the biggest yield in my opinion? YES! but you will not be able to Energize every photosynthetic Process within the cannabis Plant.

So is High Pressure Sodium the best Stand Alone bulb in the industry for the bloom cycle? Depends on what you want, do you want to sacrifice a bit of potency In Essential Oil's and extra resin production To Decrease Flowering time and Buff up yields? then HPS IS for you! But if you are after Top Shelf Runs Then Try Supplementing your Grow Footprint with a bit of Extra UVB / UVA and on the bright Side There is no Known Pathogen That can Live Past a Dose of UVC so if your having Mold mildew or even bacteria problems in your grow space grab a 10k MH it will HELP ALOT! especially in Sealed Environments also the production in certain Hormones like auxins, will increase! and you will energize more Photosynthetic Processes like phototropism.

Remember UVB Is what you want but UVA is what you will usually get unless you buy a special UVB Emitting Light, None the less Some UV Spectra Is better then No UV Spectra imo.

Here is a legend or breakdown of certain words and facts,

B. core and coil ballast's fall under the low density photon fluctuation category is because core and coil ballast's only produce 40/60 hz of RF meaning that the amount of photons the light bulb is fluctuating per second(Photon Flux Density) is in lamens terms only 40 - 60 hz worth of photons and this produces a Ultra Low Frequency Light Source, the sun is a Ultra high Frequency Light Source this is a Alien Light Source to the plant.


C. Digital Ballast's Fall Under a high photon density light source because digital ballasts produce 100k-150k HZ worth of RF meaning the amount of photons the light bulb is fluctuating per second(Photon Flux Density) is in lamens terms 100k - 150k worth of photons and this produces a Ultra High Frequency Light Source.

D. UVA is more energetic but less penetrating to the canopy.


E. UVB is less energetic but more penetrating to the canopy.

F. Chlorophyll is the molecule that absorbs sunlight and uses its energy to synthesis carbohydrates from CO2 and water(Chlorophyll A & B Receptors).

G. According to multiple sources (NASA, FDA, and others) here are the wavelengths of the UVA, UVB and UVC regions:

UVA 400 nm - 320 nm
UVB 320 nm - 290 nm
UVC 290 nm - 100 nm
 

a senile fungus

Well-Known Member
So, what is the biggest misconception in lighting?

Is the big secret the PAR? Or the ppfd? Or UVa/b?

You are pulling 3lbs off of a 5ftx6ft table with 2kw of light over it?? That is 1.5lbs a light, or about 0.68g/w, with CO2...

I'll reserve the rest of my comments for later.
 
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ShirkGoldbrick

Active Member
@dgl, are you running glass on that hood? If so, you're not getting any appreciable amount of UV.

You are right in that there are differences between in vivo and in vitro for light absorption by plants. You're also right that UV is "believed" to stimulate terpene production in plants (Along with insect attack and low humidity).

What chlorophyll can't pick up cartenoids can. Each plant has a limit to how much it can photosynthesize though and while drug strains tend to have a higher cartenoid content there's really no general statement that can be made once you get into the nitty gritty.

I think you're trying to say that the biggest misconception is that HPS alone provides the "dankest" product. I have yet to see a documented side by side analysis done incorporating UVB lights for UV or MH lights for blue spectrum with statistically relevant population sizes and gas chromatography analysis. Until that point it's just conjecture. I concur, the concepts are sound, but the more you know the less you realize you really know. Only experimentation holds the answer, and even then it is limited to the conditions of said experiment.
 

dgl

Member
So, what is the biggest misconception in lighting?

Is the big secret the PAR? Or the ppfd? Or UVa/b?

You are pulling 3lbs off of a 5ftx6ft table with 2kw of light over it?? That is 1.5lbs a light, or about 0.68g/w, with CO2...

I'll reserve the rest of my comments for later.
no lol the biggest misconception not secret is that people believe that you can energize every photosynthetic process that a cannabis plant has alone with HPS which you cannot.
and if you disagree send ed rosenthal a message.

you are determining yields by watts? not type of lite emited? WTF or even the ammount of light intensity ?

also i understand my yields are kinda shit for the amount of wattage but you are referring to 2000 watts of HPS light which Emits most of its spectral energy within a Nano-meter range of the light spectrum called PAR thus higher yields. so no 1.5lb's a light IS WITH HPS NOT 10K MH most of the spectral energy within a 10k mh is NOT emited within a par nano meter range of the light spectrum, it is emited within UV Nano meters that is what gives me shitty yield because UV does not energize Chlorophyll A & B Receptors AT ALL thus lowering my yield do you get the point here? there is more to yielding then just WATTS also a 1k hps light emits roughly 140-160k Lumens depending on brand and a MH 1K emits 100k lumens so there is also a drop in light output thus lowering yield.
you are pretty standoffish lol no offense im honestly just looking for input and trying to help out fellow growers so give me input man dont be all negative lol.
 
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dgl

Member
@dgl, are you running glass on that hood? If so, you're not getting any appreciable amount of UV.

You are right in that there are differences between in vivo and in vitro for light absorption by plants. You're also right that UV is "believed" to stimulate terpene production in plants (Along with insect attack and low humidity).

What chlorophyll can't pick up cartenoids can. Each plant has a limit to how much it can photosynthesize though and while drug strains tend to have a higher cartenoid content there's really no general statement that can be made once you get into the nitty gritty.

I think you're trying to say that the biggest misconception is that HPS alone provides the "dankest" product. I have yet to see a documented side by side analysis done incorporating UVB lights for UV or MH lights for blue spectrum with statistically relevant population sizes and gas chromatography analysis. Until that point it's just conjecture. I concur, the concepts are sound, but the more you know the less you realize you really know. Only experimentation holds the answer, and even then it is limited to the conditions of said experiment.
And you are correct there has not been enough testing done to prove most of the things i believe but honestly man do a side by side alone with a 10kmh and a 2k hps you will see the difference if your running the same pheno etc... thank you for actually giving me input and not bashing the thread.
and honestly man you have a point about the UV not passing through the glass correctly but is there any thread that has testing to prove this? because i am running A/C hoods and i can see a noticeable difference by supplementing my hps light with MH light under glass
 

dgl

Member
P.S. guys the name of my game IS Top Shelf Runs and all my input comes from years of actual Expermintation not hot air from my ass dont hate.
And dont hate on me due to my yields or GPW really?? all that info is mainly based ON HPS lighting! soooooooo how does that pertain to MH? and my MH emits most UMOLE's in UV Spectra Not Par like HPS.
also a 4k or 6k MH emits more UMOLE's within Par I AM RUNNING A 10K Metal Halide not a 2k hps not a 4k mh not a 6k mh
 
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a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
P.S. guys the name of my game IS Top Shelf Runs and all my input comes from years of actual Expermintation not hot air from my ass dont hate.
And dont hate on me due to my yields or GPW really?? all that info is mainly based ON HPS lighting! soooooooo how does that pertain to MH?
That was a good read you posted. Got to remember there are people on this forum putting in serious work when it comes to lighting education. No doubt you probably have some nice meds, but there are people here who have same as or better results under many different type of lighting. All tested samples from labs.
 

dgl

Member
That was a good read you posted. Got to remember there are people on this forum putting in serious work when it comes to lighting education. No doubt you probably have some nice meds, but there are people here who have same as or better results under many different type of lighting. All tested samples from labs.
I love your post if i could like it i would! thank you for not being rude man im not trying to bash anyones method of growing or techniques im just giving input on how i grow top shelf meds.
P.S. i am one of those people when it comes to lighting education.
 

dbkick

Well-Known Member
Rev the natural would scoff at 10k kelvin lighting, everyone and their dog knows that Hamilton 14k kelvin lighting is the only "top shelf game".
 

dgl

Member
Rev the natural would scoff at 10k kelvin lighting, everyone and their dog knows that Hamilton 14k kelvin lighting is the only "top shelf game".
Brother! brother ! brother! i didnt even know there was such thing as a 14k light????? dude im going to look into this! i am honestly not using my MH for yields at ALL pure UV so honestly you may have just modified the method of lighting for potency. exactly the type of Helpfull input i want from this thread Thank you dbkick!
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
P.S. i am one of those people when it comes to lighting education.
Indeed. Yet another one of those clueless pretengineers.

This possibly dumbest lighting thread of 2016 so far should be moved out of advanced forum into the pretengineering forum, or to TnT...
 

a senile fungus

Well-Known Member
And you are correct there has not been enough testing done to prove most of the things i believe but honestly man do a side by side alone with a 10kmh and a 2k hps you will see the difference if your running the same pheno etc... thank you for actually giving me input and not bashing the thread.
and honestly man you have a point about the UV not passing through the glass correctly but is there any thread that has testing to prove this? because i am running A/C hoods and i can see a noticeable difference by supplementing my hps light with MH light under glass
Don't you think.you'd be better off flowering with all HPS and switching to the 10k for the last few weeks?

I wasn't trying to be so negative, just trying to understand what it is you are getting at... Many of us know about PAR, ppfd, uva uvb, etc. This is nothing new.

Lumans are for humans.

You could probably consolidate your two 1kw lights over a 5x6 table into one double ended HPS and get comparable yields, while halving your wattage in lights. Using the money you save on power, you could purchase the 10k de lamps to finish them off for the last two weeks.

I have a couple buddies using the 10k finishing bulbs, they do seem to make a difference. Numerically, i don't know what the diff is, but subjectively, they look finished, taste/smell better. The side of the cola exposed to the 10k bulb turns fall colors, and the leafs get papery and tougher.
 

dbkick

Well-Known Member
Don't you think.you'd be better off flowering with all HPS and switching to the 10k for the last few weeks?

I wasn't trying to be so negative, just trying to understand what it is you are getting at... Many of us know about PAR, ppfd, uva uvb, etc. This is nothing new.

Lumans are for humans.

You could probably consolidate your two 1kw lights over a 5x6 table into one double ended HPS and get comparable yields, while halving your wattage in lights. Using the money you save on power, you could purchase the 10k de lamps to finish them off for the last two weeks.

I have a couple buddies using the 10k finishing bulbs, they do seem to make a difference. Numerically, i don't know what the diff is, but subjectively, they look finished, taste/smell better. The side of the cola exposed to the 10k bulb turns fall colors, and the leafs get papery and tougher.
I';ve used 10k finishers an handful of times, truthfully the difference I saw was near to none really, not even worth switching the lamps out.
You can get plenty uv with t5 such as the power veg. The glass is more well suited to allow uv thru.
Those sunpulse 10k finishers scare me, I was running one once and noticed a huge bulge in the outer envelope. That would make a noise if it popped. Not to mention a fucking mess of whatever is under it.
 

a senile fungus

Well-Known Member
I';ve used 10k finishers an handful of times, truthfully the difference I saw was near to none really, not even worth switching the lamps out.
You can get plenty uv with t5 such as the power veg. The glass is more well suited to allow uv thru.
Those sunpulse 10k finishers scare me, I was running one once and noticed a huge bulge in the outer envelope. That would make a noise if it popped. Not to mention a fucking mess of whatever is under it.
My buddy has a 4k room, he swapped out half the bulbs to the 10k to see if there was a difference. The half of the room under the 10k, and the sides of the colas facing the 10k, were definitely different than the buds only exposed to the HPS.

I don't know #s, but there was a noticeable difference. It was noticeable enough that, while trimming, i could pick up a cola and tell you which side of that cola was facing the 10k lamp.

Now, does that difference translate into gains? I dunno... I know that the BB3 I gifted my buddy tastes better under the 10k than it does the HPS... Anecdotal i know, but it is what it is...
 

jarvild

Well-Known Member
Not disagreeing with you in any way, but I'm yielding a little more with a 600 HPS and a 400 MH in separate hoods with the MH only running 6 hours a cycle. Some of us do have to worry about cost efficiency also.
 
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