THC immune suppression

BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Found a pretty good pdf on the subject. You won't find much in the way of direct human experiments, for the obvious reason that it's illegal. However, the evidence that does exist is vastly on the side of it being immunosuppressive, as this quote from the pdf suggests.

"In 1998 Cabral and Pettit wrote a review paper on the subject of cannabis and immunity. “This substance (THC) has been shown to be immunosuppressive and to decrease host resistance to bacteria, protozoan and viral infections. Macrophages, T-lymphocytes and natural killer cells appear to be major targets of the immunosuppressive effects of THC. Definitive data which directly links marijuana use to increased susceptibility to infection in humans is currently unavailable, however the fact that current literature reports indicate that THC alters resistance to infection in vitro in a variety of experiments on animals supports the hypothesis that a similar effect occurs in humans."

and;

"A Columbia study in 1999 by Dr James Dobson found a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white blood cell count 39% below the normal. He said, “Marijuana can cause great harm”."

and;

"Apoptosis is the key mechanism programmed by the genetic code which regulates the life and death of a cell. It is the “programmed cell death” of all mammalian cells. Apoptosis relates to the destruction of the DNA formation by the cell itself. Professor Gabriel Nahas, interviewed for an Italian newspaper, Italy Daily Roma in 2000 said the process accounted for the findings more than twenty-five years (1973) before of the damaging effects of marijuana and THC on lymphocytes. THC induces apoptosis of the cells. Because of the long-term storage of THC in body fat, the “death signals” from the THC remain in the body and act on the cells for weeks."

You can read the rest in the pdf. I'm not going to use it anymore myself, even though I enjoy the mental effects. Just not worth it. I may grow it for other people who feel that the side effects are worth it to treat a disease that they have, but me personally? No, I'm done. Done with coffee too, which also suppresses immunity. Turns out I need my immune system to keep bacteria from swelling my damn face up. My eye is still swollen, though my lip has gone back down.
 
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GardenGnome83

GardenGnome83

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
Found a pretty good pdf on the subject. You won't find much in the way of direct human experiments, for the obvious reason that it's illegal. However, the evidence that does exist is vastly on the side of it being immunosuppressive, as this quote from the pdf suggests.

"In 1998 Cabral and Pettit wrote a review paper on the subject of cannabis and immunity. “This substance (THC) has been shown to be immunosuppressive and to decrease host resistance to bacteria, protozoan and viral infections. Macrophages, T-lymphocytes and natural killer cells appear to be major targets of the immunosuppressive effects of THC. Definitive data which directly links marijuana use to increased susceptibility to infection in humans is currently unavailable, however the fact that current literature reports indicate that THC alters resistance to infection in vitro in a variety of experiments on animals supports the hypothesis that a similar effect occurs in humans."

and;

"A Columbia study in 1999 by Dr James Dobson found a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white blood cell count 39% below the normal. He said, “Marijuana can cause great harm”."

and;

"Apoptosis is the key mechanism programmed by the genetic code which regulates the life and death of a cell. It is the “programmed cell death” of all mammalian cells. Apoptosis relates to the destruction of the DNA formation by the cell itself. Professor Gabriel Nahas, interviewed for an Italian newspaper, Italy Daily Roma in 2000 said the process accounted for the findings more than twenty-five years (1973) before of the damaging effects of marijuana and THC on lymphocytes. THC induces apoptosis of the cells. Because of the long-term storage of THC in body fat, the “death signals” from the THC remain in the body and act on the cells for weeks."

You can read the rest in the pdf. I'm not going to use it anymore myself, even though I enjoy the mental effects. Just not worth it. I may grow it for other people who feel that the side effects are worth it to treat a disease that they have, but me personally? No, I'm done.
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Lol, you failed.
Side effects? But you'll use rosemary? Seizure plant?
You are looking at very limited info. You fail to decipher what is actually being said.
Good riddance
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
It's important to note that it's only THC which has been implicated in immune suppression. CBD or even THCA may be perfectly safe. THCA is the natural form, after all. Maybe the plant in its natural state is entirely benevolent. It's just when you apply significant heat to it that it's converted to the potentially harmful form. Simple drying doesn't do much.
 
C

CannaZen

Member
BobCajun said:
It's important to note that it's only THC which has been implicated in immune suppression. CBD or even THCA may be perfectly safe. THCA is the natural form, after all. Maybe the plant in its natural state is entirely benevolent. It's just when you apply significant heat to it that it's converted to the potentially harmful form. Simple drying doesn't do much.
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That is very interesting BobCajun, Can you tell me what it means to be in a cannabinoid to be in a neutral form for the body?
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
CannaZen said:
That is very interesting BobCajun, Can you tell me what it means to be in a cannabinoid to be in a neutral form for the body?
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No I cannot, because I am not a scientist, sorry. It's just two different compounds with different effects. Now I want to point out that the pdf I linked does have a couple parts about THC being effective against some forms of cancer;

There have been a few papers putting forward the idea that cannabinoids or their metabolites may prove useful in the treatment of some cancers.
The administration of THC and a synthetic cannabinoid agonist into the tumour induced a considerable regression of malignant gliomas in rats and in mice. No substantial neurotoxic effect was produced by the cannabinoid treatment in the conditions employed. Two glioma cell lines in culture demonstrated that the cannabinoids signalled apoptosis in the cells. It was suggested that these results may provide the basis for a new therapeutic approach for the treatment of malignant gliomas (Galve-Roperph et al 2000).
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Here's what glioma means; "
  1. a malignant tumor of the glial tissue of the nervous system.
So that was one particular type of cancer and the THC was injected right into it, not given systemically, like by mouth. It may be useful for that.

Casanova and colleagues in 2001 showed that both CB1 and CB2 receptors are present in hair follicles and skin. The synthetic cannabinoid WIN55, 212-2 induced a decrease in the viability of several mouse skin cancer cell lines, non-cancer lines being unaffected. This occurred through the process of
apoptosis. CB1 and CB2 receptors were involved
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In that quote it's about skin cancer. It wasn't actually THC that they used but we'll assume for now that THC would behave similarly. So it may be useful against skin cancer too. However, it did not say that it cured the cancers. It said "considerable regression of malignant gliomas" and "a decrease in the viability of several mouse skin cancer cell lines". And it didn't include a report about side effects, like on the immune system. It doesn't look like a miracle cancer cure or anything like that to me.

If I had cancer I would try pretty much every other natural anticancer compound before I resorted to THC. And I certainly would not follow Rick Simpson's advice to take massive doses of THC for several weeks or whatever it is. I would take appropriate doses of Rosemary extract. If it came down to Cannabis, I would try THCA and CBD before THC as the very last resort, and I figure if the cancer stood up to the Rosemary and other Cannabinoids it would almost certainly also stand up against the THC and I would be a goner.
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
Your like an elementary student given the equation 2x+4=8

You then go into pre algebra and start screaming x=2

You have such an incomplete understanding of what your even posting its absurd.

You come on here making threads and posts that are irrelevant. Your right your not a scientist. Stop trying to be one


Worse than Ralphee David kratos and Skywalker combined.

Go to school. Seek counseling perhaos
 
Moldy

Moldy

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
I noticed that when I smoked mj daily for a few weeks I would get a tooth abscess on a particular upper front tooth. The first few times wasn't that bad, just soreness, but recently it got worse. My entire upper lip area swelled up and right now it also moved up to one eye, making the area below it swell up like I got punched, but without the bruising. These infections happened exclusively when I had used mj steadily, as I said. I now have to actually stop using it before it kills me. So I searched "cannabis immune suppression" and found the following.


So it's not quite as benign as many believe. The page says that the immune suppression may be beneficial in certain conditions in which the immune system is overactive and attacking the body itself, such as arthritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus and hepatitis. Otherwise, probably not a great idea to use it, at least not daily.

BTW, I suggest that people interested in curing cancer rather than causing or promoting it do some research on the polyphenols in Rosemary, specifically Carnosic acid, carnosol and rosmanol. These compounds have similarities to Cannabinoids, appearing to have similar functions in the plants, mostly antioxidant and UV protection. More is produced in response to UV like with Cannabis. Anyway, point being, Rosemary may be the real miracle herb. Oddly, you never hear it mentioned whereas you hear about medical Cannabis all the time. An added benefit is that it's completely legal, doesn't cause intoxication and is very common.
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How is you dental health in the first place? Do you floss or use a water pix twice a day? Any use of mouth washes that contain fluoride or/and an anti-bacterial wash containing H202? Just asking if it could another issue? I've had some periodontal issues and since moving to the water pix my mouth is coming alone fine for an old geezer.
 
GardenGnome83

GardenGnome83

Well-Known Member
qwizoking said:
Your like an elementary student given the equation 2x+4=8

You then go into pre algebra and start screaming x=2

You have such an incomplete understanding of what your even posting its absurd.

You come on here making threads and posts that are irrelevant. Your right your not a scientist. Stop trying to be one


Worse than Ralphee David kratos and Skywalker combined.

Go to school. Seek counseling perhaos
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Brilliant!
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Moldy said:
How is you dental health in the first place? Do you floss or use a water pix twice a day? Any use of mouth washes that contain fluoride or/and an anti-bacterial wash containing H202? Just asking if it could another issue? I've had some periodontal issues and since moving to the water pix my mouth is coming alone fine for an old geezer.
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Just regular brushing, the other stuff is impractical. But in the pdf I linked it does say that smoking Cannabis causes increased periodontal disease, like about 3-4 times as much as non Cannabis smokers.

"A paper in February 2008 (Thomson et al) found that cannabis smoking may be a risk factor for periodontal disease, independent of tobacco use. The Dunedin NZ Longitudinal Study supplied the data for this research. Three groups were determined, no exposure to cannabis, 293(32.3%), some exposure, 428(47.4%) and high exposure, 182(20.2%) .The incidence of Combined Attachment Loss (CAL), between 26 and 32 years of age, in the none group was 6.5%, some exposure 11.2% and high exposure 23.6%. After controlling for tobacco use, sex, irregular use of dental services and dental plaque, the relative risk estimates of the highest group were 1.6 for having 1 or more sites with 4mm or greater with CAL, 3.1 for having 1 or more sites with 5mm or greater CAL and 2.2 for having CAL compared with the “none” group."
 
C

CannaZen

Member
I was hoping to learn more about cannabinoids in their 'neutral' forms and how they react within the body, I guess I'll have to google it.


If you want to talk of THC and Immunity; i think this need be mentioned,

October 15, 2008
Germany - Experts unanimously acknowledge the medical value of dronabinol and cannabis. public hearing of the Health Committee of the German Parliament all participating experts agreed on the proven medical value of dronabinol (THC) and cannabis for a range of illnesses.

14 April 2015
Tubingen, Germany: The administration of FDA-approved synthetic THC (dronabinol) induces death in leukemia cell lines and offers a "low-toxic therapy option" for patients with cancer, according to findings published online in the journal BMC Cancer.
 
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Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Bobby do us all a fucking favor. An early Christmas present. Obviously you don't like weed so why not quit and get your non-science outta here.

You're just arguing shit for amusement. Go feed the squirrels or something more productive
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Rrog said:
Bobby do us all a fucking favor. An early Christmas present. Obviously you don't like weed so why not quit and get your non-science outta here.

You're just arguing shit for amusement. Go feed the squirrels or something more productive
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On ignore now. You're too ignorant for me to actually reply to other than this.
 
C

CannaZen

Member
Rrog said:
Bobby do us all a fucking favor. An early Christmas present. Obviously you don't like weed so why not quit and get your non-science outta here.

You're just arguing shit for amusement. Go feed the squirrels or something more productive
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Did you post that for your own amusement? :clap: Cause i just did.

@qwizoking,

How about some PEER REVIEW? Bob is trying to piece together an understanding of what is happening when he ingests cannabis.. aint nothin wrong wit that! Sure i wouldn't want someone to be spreading misinformation. :dunce: Lets not misunderstand.



BobCajun said:
Tell me this, smarty pants. Why is Cannabis effective for diseases where the immune system is attacking the body?
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A very good question and the answer is still left to be completely understood. To indirectly answer this thread, It has been found that the body modulates the immune system involving the endocannabinoid pathways.


I think the unique ways that which the body fights various disease is especially relevant to this discussion. For example, Viral infections spread through immune response such as HSV (Herpes). Not only may HSV be suppressed through anti-inflammatic action but it Inhibits the virus through synthesis, maturation, and cellular transport of HSV2-specified glycoproteins.

lets also not forget various Terpenoids that can be found within cannabis that have been reported to be antiviral/antifungal and antibacterial (in direct contact i presume).

A recent review study observed the immunomodulating benefits of THC via modulation of CB2 receptors in the immune cells. By this immunosuppressive property, the CB2 agonist has the potential to dampen the immune response as well as sensitizing cannabis users to some — but not all — infections. The same study observed some evidence of resistance to infections after cannabinoid exposure.
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(https://www.marijuanatimes.org/cannabis-can-treat-herpes-virus-infection/)



Fever is a well known response to inflammation and infection. As you should know cannabis has been found to contain numerous anti-inflammatory compounds (including the terpenes). I cannot find an article at the moment but I have heard it been said that the body uses the endocannabinoid system to relax immune function after activity such as that of fever. (simply a part of the reason we are affected this way by the receptors)​


Though,

Prostaglandin E2 that triggers fever is synthesized through an endocannabinoid- dependent pathway

Fever Is Mediated by Conversion of Endocannabinoid 2-Arachidonoylglycerol to Prostaglandin E2

Oh,
2-Arachidonoylglycerol (2-AG) is an endocannabinoid, an endogenous agonist of the CB1 receptor.[1][2] It is an ester formed from the omega-6 fatty acid arachidonic acid and glycerol. It is present at relatively high levels in the central nervous system, with cannabinoid neuromodulatory effects. It has been found in maternal bovine and human milk.
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Omega 3 is said to be anti-inflammatory.. i wonder why? :)
 
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