Ted Cruz tears into the liberal CNBC moderators. WOW!

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
ASCIIGHOST said:
I clicked your link before I posted. He says $36,000 a year and under is not taxed. I'm for a flat tax, of 0% for all.

All I wanna know is:
If taking 100% of what someone produces is slavery, at what percentage is it not slavery?
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The $36K/year is for a family of 4

Do you believe taxing an individual who makes $18K/year at the same rate as someone who makes $500K/year is fair? How do you suppose we would pay for the programs and agencies our taxes currently fund? Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, police/fire, teachers, agriculture, environment, NASA, etc.?

These are the implications I was talking about, if you cut all those programs just so you can give rich people a tax break (Cruz' plan), it will increase poverty, income inequality, teen pregnancy and STD's, illiteracy, and leave millions homeless, hungry and without access to healthcare

If you believe taxes are "slavery", gtfo to Somalia where your going tax rate is 0%. Taxes are necessary to run a government and build and maintain infrastructure
 
ASCIIGHOST

ASCIIGHOST

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:

If you believe taxes are "slavery", gtfo to Somalia where your going tax rate is 0%. Taxes are necessary to run a government and build and maintain infrastructure
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Check it out stateist, bootlicker, chickenhawk. I'll be going nowhere, as I swore to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Do you think that's an extremest right wing act, just because you didn't commit to the same selfless service? I didnt say taxes are slavery. I asked you a very simple question. Taking 100% of what someone produces is slavery. We both agree. So at what percent is it not slavery? The slaves in America's cotton fields had to be feed, and housed. That had to cost at least 1% of slave master profits, so were they not slaves? What is the percentage where its not slavery? Simple question that you cant/wont answer? Maybe if they got 50% of profits but could not do other work based on government legislation youd be okay with it then? Then they're not slaves? Ill accept any hyopthetical answer where you use Americas slave production as an example in lieu of taxes.
 
bu$hleaguer

bu$hleaguer

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
The $36K/year is for a family of 4

Do you believe taxing an individual who makes $18K/year at the same rate as someone who makes $500K/year is fair? How do you suppose we would pay for the programs and agencies our taxes currently fund? Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, police/fire, teachers, agriculture, environment, NASA, etc.?

These are the implications I was talking about, if you cut all those programs just so you can give rich people a tax break (Cruz' plan), it will increase poverty, income inequality, teen pregnancy and STD's, illiteracy, and leave millions homeless, hungry and without access to healthcare

If you believe taxes are "slavery", gtfo to Somalia where your going tax rate is 0%. Taxes are necessary to run a government and build and maintain infrastructure
Click to expand...

Call me whatever names you want to but I think a flat tax sounds fair.
 
bu$hleaguer

bu$hleaguer

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
So if you make $100 and I make $1,000,000, and we're both taxed at 20%, you end up with $80, I end up with $800,000, you believe that's fair?

How would that system fund the programs in the budget?
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Yeah I do. The govt just made $200,020. It would fund them and all the other crap they use it for. They'd have to budget better and decide where the money will actually be used better. I don't believe that most of the funded programs are achieving what they should be, and giving them more just makes them waste more anyway.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
ASCIIGHOST said:
I didnt say taxes are slavery.
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ASCIIGHOST said:
What is the percentage where its not slavery?
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"Taxes aren't slavery, but at what percentage is it not slavery?"

...

It's not "slavery" unless somebody is owned as property

We have to either tax people based on their income (income tax), or cut government programs and agencies that benefit the sick, the elderly and the poor. There is no other way around it. A flat tax is regressive and disproportionately affects the poor and middle-class because they spend a larger percentage of their income on things they need for basic survival.

So are you willing to cut all those programs in order to implement a flat tax, like Cruz want's?
 
ASCIIGHOST

ASCIIGHOST

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
So if you make $100 and I make $1,000,000, and we're both taxed at 20%, you end up with $80, I end up with $800,000, you believe that's fair?

How would that system fund the programs in the budget?
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Cut the programs in the budget. Military industrial complex takes up 66% of the budget. The Navy is the only standing force authorized by the constitution. How to achieve the same military you might with only the Navy you ask? Put airplanes on a aircraft carrier. Now you have an Air Force. Shut down the Air Force, and Coast Guard. Drop paratroopers out of airplanes. Now shutdown the Army, because you can get "boots on the ground." Marines get to stay because they fall under department of Navy anyhow. We haven't even touched all the "intelligence agencies" that have cross each others "jurisdiction" creating waste. This is often portrayed by the Hollywood propaganda movies, by the FBI kicking local cops off crime scenes, then the CIA kicks the FBI off the scene, which conditions you to accept, nay revel in government waste. All the while crying for social programs.

Tell me, if the executive branch for states are killing people of color is bad, why is the executive branch for federal killing of color peopled allowed? Answer: because you really dont have the ability to serve selflessly. You just wanna look cool in front of your cool black friends, in hopes of their acceptance. As a transracial, im here to tell you, we will not accept you, whitey. Any other tough questions, stupid?

PS To be fair, im out of cannabis. Waiting for it to dry. That is why I am so easily destroying your intellect. Normally I wouldn't care, how stupid you are, but since the only other thing to do on this shitty forum is play checkers I'll afford you the privilege of reading my insight.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
bu$hleaguer said:
Yeah I do. The govt just made $200,020. It would fund them and all the other crap they use it for. They'd have to budget better and decide where the money will actually be used better. I don't believe that most of the funded programs are achieving what they should be, and giving them more just makes them waste more anyway.
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How is it fair if you now have to spend 100% of your $80 just to survive (including paying sales tax on every purchase that's not food) while I have to spend less than 1% of my $800,000 to survive?
 
bu$hleaguer

bu$hleaguer

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
How is it fair if you now have to spend 100% of your $80 just to survive (including paying sales tax on every purchase that's not food) while I have to spend less than 1% of my $800,000 to survive?
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I totally get what you're saying, but I feel that we're all on the same playing field though. I don't think my team should be given extra time to score or a smaller field because we don't win as many games. (Shitty analogy but that's what I'm trying to say)
 
Not GOP

Not GOP

Well-Known Member
CNBC anchor Larry Kudlow on Donald Trump's tax plan

"I don’t know all the details about his entire tax program, it’s certainly moving in the right direction lowering rates but specifically on the 15 percent corporate tax rate I have argued for it for several years. And by the way, I happen to think it would grow the economy, attack capital from all over the world—China’s at 25, we’d be at 15, it would easily pay for itself. Easily. I believe it would lower the deficit. Again, I can’t speak for the whole plan—I can speak for the 15 percent corporate tax rate. He’s spot on. And I’m honored that he mentioned me. Honored."
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
ASCIIGHOST said:
Military industrial complex takes up 66% of the budget.

The Navy is the only standing force authorized by the constitution. How to achieve the same military you might with only the Navy you ask? Put airplanes on a aircraft carrier. Now you have an Air Force. Shut down the Air Force, and Coast Guard. Drop paratroopers out of airplanes. Now shutdown the Army, because you can get "boots on the ground." Marines get to stay because they fall under department of Navy anyhow.
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54%, not 66%

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/campaigns/military-spending-united-states/?gclid=CjwKEAiA9uaxBRDYr4_hrtC3tW8SJAD6UU8GsRnbcfGjrnCjJ1wkbH7BIjaNRSdch_wwkSN7xjFPjRoCXVLw_wcB

How are you going to get this to launch off a carrier empty, let alone fully loaded with soldiers?



Here's a size comparison with a couple F-18s that actually do launch off the end of carriers;



I'm a pretty liberal guy and even I think it would be a huge mistake to eliminate any branch of the military. Scale back, yes, but eliminate, of course not.

Do you know how high the rate of unemployment would rise if you did that?

Not to mention the secondary functions the military provides like disaster relief, immunization in 3rd world countries and innovation into new technologies (another huge part of economic growth)

Clearly you haven't thought this one through either..
bu$hleaguer said:
I totally get what you're saying, but I feel that we're all on the same playing field though. I don't think my team should be given extra time to score or a smaller field because we don't win as many games. (Shitty analogy but that's what I'm trying to say)
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Do you believe you were born with equal opportunity as someone like Donald Trump?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
bu$hleaguer said:
No, but that's the way the cookie crumbles, no sense in complaining about it. No one's going to feel bad for me.
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Then how are we "all on the same playing field"?

What did you mean by that?

The idea that if you make more, you have a duty to society to pay more has been around since the beginning of modern economic thought



Adam Smith said that in The Wealth of Nations in 1776
 
Not GOP

Not GOP

Well-Known Member
All of the money Trump makes off his new book will be donated to charity and wounded veterans. If elected president, he will not accept a salary
 
bu$hleaguer

bu$hleaguer

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Then how are we "all on the same playing field"?

What did you mean by that?

The idea that if you make more, you have a duty to society to pay more has been around since the beginning of modern economic thought
Click to expand...
Because we are all on the same field! He's just 6'4" and I'm 5'8". We're playing the same game though, and we all have a right to live how we want to and do the things we choose to do. And that's awesome.

And sure it's an idea to tax the rich more but just because they're rich doesn't mean they're evil, just like poor people aren't bad for being poor. They're just people. Not everyone who has money got it handed to them, some even made good decisions and had a bit of luck too. You can't blame the successful for being the way they are.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
bu$hleaguer said:
Because we are all on the same field! He's just 6'4" and I'm 5'8". We're playing the same game though, and we all have a right to live how we want to and do the things we choose to do. And that's awesome.

And sure it's an idea to tax the rich more but just because they're rich doesn't mean they're evil, just like poor people aren't bad for being poor. They're just people. Not everyone who has money got it handed to them, some even made good decisions and had a bit of luck too. You can't blame the successful for being the way they are.
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This is exactly the kind of reasoning you must try to avoid

I don't view the imposition of taxes as some kind of punishment. I'm not saying we should tax the wealthy more because I don't like them or have something against them. I support a progressive tax system because it simply makes more economic sense and millions of wealthy people feel the same way. Taxes are necessary for a society to function and the well-off have an economic and moral obligation to society to pay more to fund the programs that help the poor.

From my sig;

"In giving to an unfortunate man we do not give him a gratuity but only help to return to him that of which the general injustice of our system has deprived him. For if none of us drew to himself a greater share of the world's wealth than his neighbor, there would be no rich and no poor. Even charity therefore is an act of duty imposed upon us by the rights of others and the debt we owe to them." -Lectures on Ethics, Emmanuel Kant
 
bu$hleaguer

bu$hleaguer

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
This is exactly the kind of reasoning you must try to avoid

I don't view the imposition of taxes as some kind of punishment. I'm not saying we should tax the wealthy more because I don't like them or have something against them. I support a progressive tax system because it simply makes more economic sense and millions of wealthy people feel the same way. Taxes are necessary for a society to function and the well-off have an economic and moral obligation to society to pay more to fund the programs that help the poor.

From my sig;

"In giving to an unfortunate man we do not give him a gratuity but only help to return to him that of which the general injustice of our system has deprived him. For if none of us drew to himself a greater share of the world's wealth than his neighbor, there would be no rich and no poor. Even charity therefore is an act of duty imposed upon us by the rights of others and the debt we owe to them." -Lectures on Ethics, Emmanuel Kant
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Yeah well I guess I just disagree with all those millions of wealthy people who want to be taxed more. Maybe I just love capitalism and the fight of it all. I majored in sociology and it took a few years after to realize what a bunch of trash it was. I really fell for it hook line and sinker when I was younger but nowadays I just feel like everyone has to fight to get ahead in this world, and if you don't you'll get buried by those who do.

I'm in no way against charity and helping people though, that's a totally separate issue. Taxing the rich shouldn't be an emotional issue, and it feels like you're trying to make it one.
 
The_Herban_Legend

The_Herban_Legend

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Then how are we "all on the same playing field"?

What did you mean by that?

The idea that if you make more, you have a duty to society to pay more has been around since the beginning of modern economic thought



Adam Smith said that in The Wealth of Nations in 1776
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This 10% flat tax originates from the right of center's, delusional belief, in a deity, "Jeebus Christ", that poor and rich alike, pay the same 10% tithing. Creationists make me laugh. (:
 
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