Tags High Efficiency Lighting Garden

I never said you were wrong but you are explaining two different things...intensity and spectrum. There is no way to read them in one merged reading/meter yet. Like a photosynthesis meter maybe one day...but then there has to be a more definite theory about which wavelengths are truly the most important.

Lux will not work truthfully. 1Lux is equal to 1lumen over a m2. Lux is biassed just like lumens. No bias readings with par. With par, what is present(400-700) is read equally whether it is green or red. PAR is the only measurement we(normal people) have that is unbiased in the amount of photons being emitted simple as that.(other than a $5000 spetcroradiometer of course)

The hps vs led proves mine point...that par is better than anything. If the readings were in lux with the same umols from the LED and HPS...the hps would seem better but the par value shows that there is actually the same light amount being emitted. Then after that we have to look at the spectrum and decide how well the plants will respond to it, based off our knowledge of the action response curve.

Judging a light is a multi step process and there are a few ways to go about it...but the point is that a few different measurement/reading/facts are needed to get to you final interoperation of it's capabilities. Then you have to actually use it and see if it lives up.

This is an old post of mine. Basically what we have been talking about

tags420 said:

Here is how I look at LED's in order of importance.
1) What is the par output in umol's (most companies don't give one on their website and that just pisses me off)...minimum 700umols@12" is the lowest end of my attention radar. 1000hps's puts out 1800umol@24" so that is my real goal. Yellow(lumens) light that is not all absorbed(wasted) is still in the par spectum, so 1800umols LED PAR(wavelength specific) output would be more to the plants than 1800umols PAR(the whole mess) from hps.
2) Wattage to achieve output. (first total unit draw, then diode wattage and brand)
3) Coverage size and umol dispersion over the area (only strong in center or is it spread out)
4) Spectrum/wavelengths
5) Price
6) BS advertising/company image/knock offs on the market. (maybe they are the knock offs?)

Just the ways I personally judge all of them.

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Then you have to actually use it and see if it lives up.

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And that my good sir is really the point I've been making all along. You can have two different light sources registering the exact same uMole readings and plant response may be vastly different dependent entirely upon the spectrum's being emitted. Plant response trumps all.

tags420 said:

So after a lot of talk about why buy an Apache over an A51... or any other company for that matter...I have gotten some info out of apache that should make things clear.

Apache has an AT120 frame/platform and they put their new chip in it. They have it pulling 196w...so driving about 1.5w/chip. They call it a variable chip so I don't know what the max capability is. I assume it wont get ran much more than this since it is probably most efficient around this.

Pulling 196w with the new chips in the AT120 housing, the output is...
1920umol @12"
1208umol @18"
786umol @24"
358umol @36"

Apache has been lazy IMO by sitting around letting people catch up. Now that they realize they actually need new and better units/tech to be the best, they have gotten things in gear. Canceling trips and other things so that the new products will be ready as fast as possible. Originally just the new bigger models were coming with the old chips. But now the new chips are a must and will be released all together in the new models. This might add a week or 2 to the release but well worth it.

The new 480 platform with the old chips was testing 1040umol@24"...imaging what the new chips will do to that!

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that s sound amazing but am i gonna have to sell my liver or kidney to buy this... do you have any insight on what the cost is..
p.s tags im a huge fan

Dirtyserb said:

that s sound amazing but am i gonna have to sell my liver or kidney to buy this... do you have any insight on what the cost is..
p.s tags im a huge fan

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Thanks man. I'll keep the show coming.
The new AT120 platform will be the same price as the old one(1099) but the code I have will still work for that($750). Which is the info in my quote below. VVVV

tags420 said:

Apache has an AT120 frame/platform and they put their new chip in it. They have it pulling 196w...so driving about 1.5w/chip. They call it a variable chip so I don't know what the max capability is. I assume it wont get ran much more than this since it is probably most efficient around this.
Pulling 196w with the new chips in the AT120 housing, the output is...
1920umol @12"
1208umol @18"
786umol @24"
358umol @36"

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The new bigger at480 will be something like $2000-$2300 retail. My code will work on any new apache item I just don't know how good the discount will be for the new products yet. But will still be the best discount available I would imagine.

He also said they might be doing $650 blow out sale for the old models soon. I would just wait and spend the extra $100 for the new model with my code though.

tags420 said:

I have already talked to them about replacing some of my units lenses with the 50* but I am just going to wait for the new gear. They are going to 28* for the new models with will really help the true coverage but still keep a good focus.

And it is the output number from the middle at each each height. So peak output basically. I am begging for a umol meter with the new unit to show what is gong on so hopefully that will happen.
I get what you want to see but your going to have to wait till I can do it myself with my tester or the official drop so someone like growershouse does one.

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thanks for the info tags. maybe switch half the units you have when the 28 degree lens come in to see, or even get one 50 degree to play with... I've noticed in life, talking and reading is actually far different then doing, and doing usually comes at a $ expense, but sure clears up things your thinking in your head real quick.. I do think you would see a difference though, where the difference being far better intensity on the edges / also with better coverage.

I have done some testing with a li-cor, and basically I find it's a balancing act. I more talk about that when saying DIY, as DIY you can place the LED anywhere, with any lens.. in a unit, your stuck with what you have, at what wattage and chip placement.. but none the less, yes switching the lens on the unit you will see, obviously more a spread ( not that you don't know what ) .. it's just trying to find the best balance of both worlds ( coverage and intensity ) as lens angle plays in determining intensity.. I like the idea of them using 28 degree vs. there old 15 degree. the thing I think needs to be kept in mind is the unit is pretty small. so I thought widening the angle with a unit that small would get better coverage, while being able to bring the light down a little to offset the lost intensity.. I have some other thoughts, but being there are companies on this site, I need to keep it closed.

tags420 said:

I never said you were wrong but you are explaining two different things...intensity and spectrum. There is no way to read them in one merged reading/meter yet. Like a photosynthesis meter maybe one day...but then there has to be a more definite theory about which wavelengths are truly the most important.

Lux will not work truthfully. 1Lux is equal to 1lumen over a m2. Lux is biassed just like lumens. No bias readings with par. With par, what is present(400-700) is read equally whether it is green or red. PAR is the only measurement we(normal people) have that is unbiased in the amount of photons being emitted simple as that.(other than a $5000 spetcroradiometer of course)

The hps vs led proves mine point...that par is better than anything. If the readings were in lux with the same umols from the LED and HPS...the hps would seem better but the par value shows that there is actually the same light amount being emitted. Then after that we have to look at the spectrum and decide how well the plants will respond to it, based off our knowledge of the action response curve.

Judging a light is a multi step process and there are a few ways to go about it...but the point is that a few different measurement/reading/facts are needed to get to you final interoperation of it's capabilities. Then you have to actually use it and see if it lives up.

This is an old post of mine. Basically what we have been talking about

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love this info ( your old post ) , and you said it great. just wanted to throw that out there, that I respect what you do. there's people that do, and people that talk.. your a doer, and there's to few people like you. keep doing what your doing

^^^That means a lot man, respect. I'm glad that people are liking what I am doing. I appreciate everyone that follows along and chats it up with me. It is not like I can talk about this kind of stuff with everyone, so you guys make my experience so much better. Thank you all for that.


So like I said, the show will keep coming...
[video=youtube;1E6xS16uiR0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E6xS16uiR0&feature=youtu.be[/video]

That update is.. Sexy.. Super healthy plants! That structure under the Apaches is.. Sexy

^^ what is this??

^^That Was Some Polish Spam^^

Awesome update. Like you said, everything is on point and kicking ass. keep up the great work bro.

tags420 said:

^^^That means a lot man, respect. I'm glad that people are liking what I am doing. I appreciate everyone that follows along and chats it up with me. It is not like I can talk about this kind of stuff with everyone, so you guys make my experience so much better. Thank you all for that.


So like I said, the show will keep coming...
[video=youtube;1E6xS16uiR0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E6xS16uiR0&feature=youtu.be[/video]

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Awesome update! Keep them coming, Subbed!

Just a quick update. Just 2 days progress was note worthy
[video=youtube;7eRJH1UenW0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eRJH1UenW0&feature=youtu.be[/video]


EDIT:
And some pics from day 32 hps

Nice And Healthy Brother Tags.I Did Some Updating To My Media Player AND I Can Now See Your Beautiful Garden Very Nice Job Brother.

The Dawg said:

Nice And Healthy Brother Tags.I Did Some Updating To My Media Player AND I Can Now See Your Beautiful Garden Very Nice Job Brother.

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I stopped uploading in HD just for you. Glad you fixed it. Back to HD from now on then.

Quick update
In the little room it will be just the indagro. They are just perfect to flip...multi 18" headed in 1gallon pots. They fit just so damn well in a 4x4 tray that we have to do them in there. And it will be perfect size for the IG to handle alone. They are lolli-popped pretty good so should be just a bunch of nice tops. Greengenes is keeping it on track and I have learned some tricks already. Just some last touches to the room and these girls will be flipped.

Tricks ya say? Please share what the professor has taught. The girls look great by the way. Is today the official flip date?

Nothing actually tricky or secretive.
Just watching someone else work and how they do little things just sheds some light in my own head about what I do and how to be better. The professor is so good about prunning and managing shoots. He did take note on my garden but still. We(me and him) talk about how people never prune enough to start...he has them to just a few nodes on each shoot. They will stretch out but everything on it will be quality usable, no larf. As where I still leave too much at the flip sometimes.
Also he's never top watered these at all. I like how they are growing and I think this wicking method is really quick at establishing good root structure for the quick flip in smaller pots. I think the it could be the indagro, but they vegged faster using the wicking and good pruning. I just really like how he is doing this run.

He sent this to me this morning.

^^^That's @12"...it does around 2000umol@24" which is where it counts IMO

They are just waiting on the chips to come in and then production is on. The Max Yield show in SF will have everything, and be ready for sale after fore sure. Hopefully they come in quick cause I still have to wait too.

I have a field trip planned for next week end to go down to the shop. I will bring my camera and note pad to get everything I can first hand. I will get to use the spectroradiometer and par and what ever else I need. I will do plenty of output readings and mapped coverage stuff of everything he will let me play with.

I. Must. Have...but will it fit in my 3x3? And is this with the new chips or the current? Sounds like a fun field trip coming up!

tags420 said:

he sent this to me this morning.
View attachment 2730793
^^^that's @12"...it does around 2000umol@24" which is where it counts imo

they are just waiting on the chips to come in and then production is on. The max yield show in sf will have everything, and be ready for sale after fore sure. Hopefully they come in quick cause i still have to wait too.

I have a field trip planned for next week end to go down to the shop. I will bring my camera and note pad to get everything i can first hand. I will get to use the spectroradiometer and par and what ever else i need. I will do plenty of output readings and mapped coverage stuff of everything he will let me play with.

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spllloooooooooooooooooooooooge!!!

100% it will fit in a 3x3, I will get the actual dimensions later this week or on the field trip at the latest. And yes it has the new chips. Also should have 28* or 30*lenses as an option, which will give the full complete 4x4 primary coverage.