Sunlight Supply Not Cool

MJCrusader

New Member
Found this on another forum:

Can you believe this? I just had to post this because this is such a load of crap....

http://www.growersunderground.com/blog/hydroponics-articles/strong-armed-storeowners

I can’t believe that people (Craig) are trying to get Advanced Nutrients out of stores. It’s disgusting, it’s a shame, and it seems like just another way the MJ community is getting bad press. If we want to legalize, doesn’t it seem like all of the nute companies should work together?

Advanced Nutrients has always supported hydro stores and their owners.

I’m going to be calling Craig 360-883-8846 ([email protected]) at Sunlight supply….now. Gotta say, the good old boys that Big Mike is always talking about? Seems to be the real deal.


WTF?????????
 

fatman7574

New Member
Dude AN is a corporation of scum sucking parasites that should be locked up for being ignorant money hungry fools that grossly over charge for simply fair products at best. Half the products they produce are merely snake oils at best. May they rot in prison. The wosrse that could happen if they went to prison was that the price of everyones elses nutrients would go down in price. I think the pot growers have bought the AN people too mamy Hummers amd Beamers already. Let them spend the money they screwed pot growers out of for more defense lawyers. I think Big Mike will probably enjoy all the punkn' he gets by the lovin' boys that will greet him in a fed pen. May he squeal like the pig he is.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/292914-hydro-lovers-support-advanced-nutrients.html

10 points for Sunlight supplies. And what is with punked fat Mikie and his our community crap. I don't belong to some elite community with Mikie. Growing, or using pot doesn't make be part of some hypothetical community with Mikie any more than reading or posting to this forum or any other. I live in only one community "the American middle class working community." Period. Screw that big fat assesd, blow hard, sniveling, carpet bagging, unethical, Hummer drivin', greedy, parasitic bitcha.
 

aeroman

Well-Known Member
That's quite a big axe you're grinding there.


I can't help but wonder what your motive is.


Oh, and that big greedy corporation you're whining about just did something really ungreedy in case you hadn't heard. Big Mike says they tested Jumpstart against H&G's Roots Accelerator and Jumpstart wasn't better.

So he's pulling it off the shelves and telling everyone to buy H&G's version instead.

See for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JJb3JiqYlY


Not exactly greedy, eh?

BTW, the Hummers you're complaining about are company cars, not Big Mike's own ride as far as I know. I saw a video where he was driving and it was just some regular sedan. The Hummers are publicity, nothing more. I don't agree with it myself, but some people respond to big flashy things so you can't really fault them for appealing to those people.
 

fatman7574

New Member
Wow, you buy Fat Milkies marketing crap. Really? Wow, that's sad. I'm 100 perecnt behind the Washington stores who will not sell AN products. I am 100% behind Mikie posting adds for a going out of business in the U.S.A. sale. He should have never been licensed to sell his prodiucts in the U.S. until he dropped his method of advertising.

Dumb ass Fat Mike is still blasting way that his fertilizer is especially formulated for growing pot. Washington state has several categories for fertilizers. One of those is speciality fertilizers. If you look you will find the only fertilizer manfacturers on that list are manafacturers such as AN, GH and Canna. All manafacti urers from places where it is leagl to sell a product specifiaccly for breaking a U.S. federal crime. No U.S. manafacturers with products on that list. If you look at their product lines you see they have names such as Big Bud, Bloom and such. The DEA is already pulling growing products out of stores in Washington beacuse of Mikie's dumb ass advertising. Is Mikie stupid? Even dumb asses like Mikie ought to kow that the U.S. government will put up with a lot under the practice of we wont ask if you don't tell. That dumb ass even flies banners to advertise his illegal sells. He is causing this shit, not Sun Light Supply. Mikie is going to end up causing a lot of crap for a lot of people just because he wants to keep the edge that he gets selling to gullible growers by talking all his I produce the n best pot growing products crap. The DEA will just wait a while longer, play ball even harder and if it still doesn't work they will just extradite his fat ass. Sun light is smart enough to be trying to stop this from happening to the manafacturers ar who are at least playing by the rule. Ie do not opemly state and worse brag that their products are for pot growing. Sdaly, It is just making Mikie act even stupider and that will end up causing many other people to be adversely effected. Mikie though obviously thinks about nothing but feeding his own ego and greed.

Get a brain child, Not his cars: he is the company founder, chief shareholder and CEO. He is AN, it is all his. Are you really that lame brained. Are you also going to say he does not live in a million dollar plus home or that when he advertised that he would pay anyone a million dollars of his owm money to nayone that could grow better bud with another product other than AN that he would need to bot rrow the money. Wow, you need to grow up and smeel the rotten applles child. Mikie is no friend to the growing community, growers in general or to any body he thinks might shorten the time period that he can swindle U.S . growers out of money thru his marketing methods.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
This is what this feud is all about.


Operation Green Merchant



By Ray Boyd - Friday, October 14 2005 Tags:
  • The DEA does a nationwide takedown
The DEA believed that High Times magazine, pot seed merchants, indoor pot growers, pot journalists and hydroponics equipment manufacturers were a criminal conspiracy worthy of a nationwide takedown.
Operation Green Merchant was the DEA's comprehensive attempt to destroy pot magazines and hydroponics and indoor [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] growing industries. To understanding the US government's bizarre attack on this legitimate, multi-faceted industry, realize that DEA ideology brands the hydroponics industry as the indoor [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] industry, and vice versa.
There are no facts to back up the DEA's assertion that the industries are one in the same. In fact, only a very small portion of hydroponic farmers are [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] growers. Yet Green Merchant took action against hydroponics storeowners, workers and customers by arresting them for [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] crimes ? even when there was no evidence they were guilty of any crimes.
One of the best histories of Green Merchant is an article by Jeff Edwards in the Winter 2004 issue of Hydroponic Retailing In the USA. The author is a hydroponic store founder-owner, and also president of the Hydroponic Merchants Association (HMA), an influential trade group.
According to Edwards, in the late 1980's the DEA believed that High Times magazine, pot seed merchants, indoor pot growers, pot journalists and hydroponics equipment manufacturers were a criminal conspiracy worthy of a nationwide takedown.
Using gardening equipment ads in High Times as their roadmap, undercover DEA agents visited hydroponics stores and contacted hydroponics wholesalers, asking for advice and materials for [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] cultivation.

The DEA subpoenaed United Parcel Service (UPS) delivery records associated with hydroponics stores, getting information on tens of thousands of people suspected of procuring hydro equipment for [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] growing. Hydroponics retailers were already nervous, noting that Congress started passing laws in 1985 that criminalized otherwise legal products if they were "intended for illegal use."
Most storeowners had already adopted a hard-line policy: they instructed their employees to remove anyone from the store who asked about [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL]. If the person refused to leave, employees were to call the police and have the person arrested for trespassing.
These precautions didn't matter to President George H.W. Bush, who announced a major escalation of the drug war in a Sept. 5, 1989 speech televised from the Oval Office. Under Bush's prodding, DEA agents increasingly visited hydroponics stores, ran surveillance, and gathered information through strongarm tactics and subterfuge. They lied to store employees, posing as bikers, hippies, Vietnam veterans, and medically needy people.
One hydroponics store staffer who was a victim of Green Merchant said DEA agents were "shameless in their deceptions, wearing clandestine recording devices while trying to trick us into having incriminating discussions about [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL]. They offered us women, guns, and money if we'd show them how to grow pot and sell them gear."
Black Thursday
Then, on a day known in the hydroponics industry as Black Thursday, October 26, 1989, the DEA in conjunction with dozens of other law enforcement agencies raided hydroponics stores in 46 states, arresting 119 people, seizing several indoor gardening shops and thousands of cannabis plants.
Store owners and employees watched in horror as gun-toting police ransacked their shops. In most cases, no charges were ever filed, but civil asset forfeitures stole millions of dollars worth of inventory from stores and individuals. One cultivation-centered pot magazine, Sensimilla Tips, went out of business, and High Times spent years recovering from the loss of its most lucrative advertisers. Sensimilla Tips publisher Tom Alexander established the magazine The Growing Edge in the aftermath of Operation Green Merchant, where nary a mention of [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] can be found.
Green Merchant kept rolling long after Black Thursday, roping in hundreds of plants and growers, also corralling Nevil Schoenmakers, the world's first international [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] seed retailer, whose Holland-based "[URL="https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-seeds.php"]seed bank[/URL]" was an early precursor to Marc Emery Seed Sales and dozens of seed retail imitators.
In 1991, DEA agents began serving subpoenas on hydro storeowners, seeking customer addresses and other private information. Agents raided, questioned, and intimidated hundreds of people and organizations, including scientists and NASA's horticultural research facilities. By the end of 1991, Green Merchant had arrested 1,262 people, dismantled 977 indoor grows, and seized $17.5 million in assets. Dozens of people served 4 to 15 year prison terms, many with mandatory minimums that did not allow for sentence reduction.
The Green Merchant scheme backfired on the DEA. The general public and Libertarian politicians heard that innocent hydroponics storeowners had been convicted of [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] charges solely based on questionable testimony from tainted informants. People found out the DEA entrapped suspects, ruined lives and businesses, and sent harmless people to prison. The DEA came off not as heroic antidrug crusaders, but as Nazis.
Super Growth
In 2005, nearly two decades after the horrors of Black Thursday, the hydroponics industry is vibrant and confident, but also wary of more DEA-inflicted trauma. One of the main safety tactics employed by the hydroponics industry is for hydro store owners to ruthlessly avoid any connection with [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] growers or products designed for [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL]. The basis for such extreme avoidance is a federal law, specifically "21 U.S.C. 863," which defines drug paraphernalia as "any equipment, product, or material of any kind which is primarily intended or designed for use in manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing, producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled substance?"
Because the definition of paraphernalia criminalizes innocent items, the law says that "in determining whether an item constitutes drug paraphernalia, in addition to all other logically relevant factors, the following may be considered:
(1) instructions, oral or written, provided with the item concerning its use;
(2) descriptive materials accompanying the item which explain or depict its use;
(3) national and local advertising concerning its use;
(4) the manner in which the item is displayed for sale;
(5) the existence and scope of legitimate uses of the item in the community; and
(6) expert testimony concerning its use.
The government's broad interpretation of this statute formed the basis for the Justice Department's "Operation Pipe Dreams" in 2003, which snared Tommy Chong and many others. The government views inert, otherwise legal materials and objects ? such as glass ? as illegal if they are "intended" for illegal use.
According to hydroponics industry leaders, "some wacko at the DEA" could interpret this law to mean that hydroponics gear advertised in pot magazines is "illegal drug paraphernalia."
Jeff Edwards reflected this concern in his Green Merchant article with this dire warning: "Don't advertise in publications that overtly or covertly appeal to [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] growers. Avoid at all costs products that are advertised specifically for use in growing [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL]."
Writing in a gardening magazine, another prominent member of the hydroponics industry warned his colleagues: "[You] can see why I get upset when hydroponic manufacturers or retail stores market their products in a 'wink and a nod' manner. And the fact is, you still run a big risk if you market in any way to pot growers. Now, there are those in our industry who don't believe that. They persist in targeting the underground economy, because they think that's the path to success. Others, including myself, think that our industry would be wiser and probably richer in the long run by tapping the $70 billion mainstream gardening market. Again I ask, which side are you on?"
On Internet cultivation forums, in cultivation books, and in the [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] industry, pot growers network and discuss hydroponics, fertilizers, lighting, C02 units, and other indoor gardening supplies. Of these, cannabis fertilizer is the most plant-specific of all the types of merchandise a hydroponics store sells.
There are about eight major manufacturers and dozens of smaller companies making fertilizer products routinely used by [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] growers. Among the major players are General Hydroponics, Technaflora, Canna, and Advanced Nutrients.
Most hydroponics manufacturers never mention [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] in their North American marketing materials; they certainly don't advertise in [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] magazines. At the same time, some of these same companies or their subsidiaries advertise in European [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] magazines and at [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] conventions.
The only major companies in the North American market that openly admit their products are used to grow [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] are Canna and Advanced Nutrients.
When I asked legit hydroponics insiders to comment on the assertion that fertilizers and other indoor grow products could be considered illegal paraphernalia, most of them adamantly refused to talk on the record.
I contacted Advanced Nutrients at its company headquarters in British Columbia, and spoke to company president Robert Higgins. Initially, Higgins also refused to be interviewed. Later, he gave a brief statement about [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL]-specific advertising, hydroponics stores, and the industry in general.
"Advanced Nutrients are legal products," Higgins said. "Our products work well on all plants because we do solid research and constant upgrading. Medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] growing is legal in Canada for Health Canada licensed patients; we created specialty products for them that work better on medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] than any other products do. I believe everyone in the industry agrees with Advanced Nutrients that [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] is a plant medicine, and that excellent medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] can be grown hydroponically."
Higgins said he "totally supports" hydroponics retailers and is "just as concerned about their safety as they are.
"I understand why people in the US are afraid of their government, but carrying Advanced Nutrients products won't get them raided," he said. "Plenty of retailers in the US selling our products are having absolutely zero problems. Our industry realizes we need to work together to defend our business rights and the legitimacy of our products and retailers."
Higgins refused comment on Edwards' published advice that hydroponics storeowners should not carry products advertised in [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] magazines, which until recently were a main venue for Advanced Nutrients' advertising.
A representative of High Times anonymously responded to Edwards, saying, "Green Merchant was the government trying to destroy free speech by going after our advertisers. We're proud to teach people how to grow, use, and lobby for [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL].
Hydro store owners make a stand for freedom by refusing to be intimidated by the drug war. There's nothing to be ashamed of for growing pot, providing help to growers, selling hydroponics equipment, or being in a weed magazine."
Better Safe than Sorry?
Barry is a hydroponics store owner in California. His store sells fans, fertilizers, grow lights, gardening books and other equipment. He earns enough to have a "middle class existence", and employs four other people.
He's been in business seven years; every year, sales have increased. His [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] policy: neither the substance nor the topic is found on premises. If a customer so much as hints at being a pot grower, Barry bans them.
Barry drug tests his employees. If they test positive, or otherwise violate his [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] policies, he fires them.
"Green Merchant is how extreme the government can get ? they'll bust you even if you have zero contact with [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL]," he complains. "As far as my store is concerned, to my knowledge nobody who buys our products uses them for [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL]. Not even legal medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL]. We don't have [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] in our lives, period. However, given that they can bust you even if you aren't doing anything associated with [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL], I often wonder what's the use of taking precautions."
Barry's store carries several types of fertilizers, among them Advanced Nutrients.
"I hesitated to carry Advanced," he confesses, "because their marketing was tied to medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL]. A lot of customers demanded it. It sells well. Sure, sales reps for other nute companies warn Advanced is gonna get me popped. I was concerned enough to have my lawyer contact the DEA and my Congressman. The DEA tells him it's got no intent of busting my store unless I am actively and knowingly assisting [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] growers, which I am not. The Congressman says there's no political will or funding to do another Green Merchant, and probably never will be."
While we're speaking, a 60-something woman comes in asking what she needs to buy so she can have a small, indoor garden for orchids and other legal exotic plants.
Barry shows her a self-contained ebb and flow rack system that contains pump, reservoir, tubing, volcanic rock, fittings, an Advanced Nutrients starter kit, a frame and an adjustable height 250 watt HPS light. It was a small purchase, just under $790, and seemed 100 percent legitimate.
When I asked Barry if the lady was a "typical customer," he just smiled.
Regulation Blues
There are clouds on the horizon. Police and politicians in Southern Australia recently proposed a law that would investigate and register hydroponics store owners and operators, similar to the way pawn shops and alcohol stores are licensed in the United States. The proposed law requires hydroponics customers to provide identification, address information and "end user certificates" to stores, and requires stores to divulge customer information to police.
In March, Paul Nadeau, head of the RCMP's [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] enforcement team in British Columbia, said the Mounties are drafting a new grow shop bylaw that authorities could use to regulate hydroponics stores, much like pawn shops. Customers would have to provide picture identification; stores would be required to give police access to customer purchases.
"There's absolutely no doubt in our minds that these stores cater to people who grow [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL]," Nadeau said. "The people who are growing [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL], they're using these stores. It's not gardeners." In the US, lawmakers threatened to regulate the commercial fertilizer industry because some components can be precursors for methamphetamine or bombs. The fertilizer industry responded by offering to help police stop such materials from being used illegally in California.
Barry says his wife and family ask him to "get out of the business," but he sees it as "my duty as a citizen to stand up to the government for my right to help people grow plants."
"What's this leading to?" he wonders. "They're telling us what plants to grow, what fertilizers we can use and sell. Based on probable harm or intent? I look at their scare tactics as a business crime and a human rights crime. I won't bow to it." Other hydroponics enthusiasts have admittedly bowed to it. Like a 50-year-old veteran hydroponicist I spoke to, one of many whose life was virtually destroyed during the Green Merchant pogrom. He's thankful to have a safer job now, but says he's lost the inner fire that once made him an advocate for hydroponics and [URL="https://www.rollitup.org"]marijuana[/URL] legalization.
"Now, I am like most Americans: just trying to get along until I die," he ruefully admits. "They have beaten me down and I have submitted. Until you realize they will break the law to take somebody down, you just don't understand. They are criminals with badges and will do whatever they want to do."

Illustration from `Closet Cultivator` by Ed RosenthalTHE IDEAL GARDEN
This well equipped garden contains: an ebb-and-flow system including nursery pots, tray, reservoir pump and auto drain; a regulator system, tank, meter, and tubing; an air cooled reflector that holds a 1000 watt HPS lamp hanging from a light mover; two ventilation fans on opposite sides of the garden; a humidistat/thermostat regulating a squirrel fan, vents and an air conditioner to the cool room.
 

justintym2

Member
wow that was alot of info thx to you guys ...again WOW that is a shame they have gone about this people drink and drive so why not raid alcohol stores or i believe in control not abuse this owners are providing for nurseries too im sure so do they raid them then to work at a store and have piss test ,fuc good way of covering your ass . the economy is gonna get better but we need to rethink our stance in society people dont like drunks ,yet they fine em and kick the out addicts rapists and murderers everybody needs someone to blame and everyone needs a job so let us grow pot and blame the lord for givin us the ability to grow ( yeah didnt think so ) is peyote legal for the indians on reservations cause alcohol isnt ..the answer is yes if you can prove your "peyote religion ".they are all just tryin to mold us as people and what we do
 

fatman7574

New Member
wow that was alot of info thx to you guys ...again WOW that is a shame they have gone about this people drink and drive so why not raid alcohol stores or i believe in control not abuse this owners are providing for nurseries too im sure so do they raid them then to work at a store and have piss test ,fuc good way of covering your ass . the economy is gonna get better but we need to rethink our stance in society people dont like drunks ,yet they fine em and kick the out addicts rapists and murderers everybody needs someone to blame and everyone needs a job so let us grow pot and blame the lord for givin us the ability to grow ( yeah didnt think so ) is peyote legal for the indians on reservations cause alcohol isnt ..the answer is yes if you can prove your "peyote religion ".they are all just tryin to mold us as people and what we do
A drug is a drug is a drug. They are all bad even pot. Which is worse? Alcohol, no probablyy Nicotene. Should we be able as adults to freely make our own choices individually. No I think not. As long as we are part of a soceity the society should decide what is and is not acceptable. Alledgedly that is how it works in this country because we are a democratic society our majority opinion should be the deciding factor. Sadly along time ago we decided it took to long to wait to tajke a country wide vote as we did not have country wide communication systems like the internet, so we have senators and congressman deciding things for us and even when we have a national vote it really means nothing as we have an electoral college that does our vote for us and that is what actually counts. The only votes we get are local and state if we get it in a referendum to a vote. Otherwise we only get to vote into office those who make all our choices fr us. So remember when ever yiu do or dion't vote t for a congressman or senator tat he or she decides soceity rules such as whether or not rape, incest murder and pot smoking or growing is leagal and therefore soceitally acceptable. As US citizens all are right and wrongs societally are decided for us as far as the laws are concerned. Com ngress rights all laws and not even the Presidnt and tell anyone they are exempt fromthe law. Only the congress can do that. So noone anyone in this country is safe d from prosecution from federal drug laws even medical marijuana users or growers. The sate laws only keep the stae police in check not the feds. The president does not have the aouthority to tell the DEA or anyone else not to enfi orce the laws. He can onlygive his opinions and express wg hat he would like done or bnot done. He is powerless to force the ssue though. My self, I am a drug felon without a vote so my opinion means nothing to my congressman and senators.
 

think2toke

Well-Known Member
Fuck man i work at a hydro store and let me tell you. I wish they took the crap out.

You have to special order it, there pictures annoye me and only dumb ass noobs buy the shit,

The only product i would sell is sensi a/b.

Other than that what AN does it take the ideas from other companys and put a whole new name on it.

Like wet betty i mean what the fuck?

Yay lets put a cartoon of a whore on our bottle and call it something super when dutch masters and other companys have been making things like penatraor for years with a better logo and PRODUCT!!

Advanced nutrients is a confusing and horrible comapny IMHO.

Trust me the real OG growers dont touch that shit.

Sorry for all the anger i just am sick of all the advertising and ear filling crap they put out on the market.
 

fatman7574

New Member
Sure gets t out he truth about Fat Mikie and his unethical suck the grower dry way of doin' business. I would say across the USA it is 10 votes against Mikie for each one idiot on his side.
 
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