Subcool's Breeding Better Cannabis

Discussion in 'Breeders Paradise' started by Outkast Seeds, Feb 6, 2008.

    Outkast Seeds

    Outkast Seeds Well-Known Member

    This was my first article printed in Hightimes with Willie Nelson on the cover [​IMG]

    I thought you guys might like it with some of the accompaning pictures.

    Breeding Better Cannabis Part 1
    [FONT=&quot]Creating Better Cannabis
    Many people collect things as a hobby, we are no different except we collect “Elite strains of Cannabis” usually in clone-only format. In the last 25 years I have collected and grown-out hundreds of strains. I have traveled to Holland and attended the Cannabis Cup, 7 times. I’ve also lived in Amsterdam. One thing I believe is that the best Cannabis in the world is still in North America, in some unknown garden and belongs to someone without internet access. We have been lucky enough to collect some amazing examples. Some of my all time favorites are Genius and Apollo-13 by Brothers Grimm, also Killer Queen and Space Queen by Vic High. Our most potent strain is Jack’s Cleaner, a Pluton X LambsBread X Purple Haze freak, which can literally make a non-grower puke if they’re not used to her brutal raw potency. We call it the “they’re coming to take me away” stone. Now, MzJill and I continue this tradition working as a team. She has some of her own favorites as well. The Black Russian strain that gives all of our Sputnik crosses their insane purple coloring came from MzJill via Nebu. Over the past 5 years we have worked with these crosses to create new and interesting varieties. MzJill comes up with her own crosses using her favorites and even helps me pollinate when the males are ready. We grow in 100% organic soil mix I prepare myself using potting soil, bat guano, worm castings, and other natural soil builders. We feel the biosynthesis that takes place in soil adds something that cannot be measured. We use 10 gallon containers so the roots have lots of room. We would like to share with you a little of what goes into breeding a new strain.
    Breeding has many complexities that I won’t begin to try and explain here today. But I think our main goal was very simple, to combine an extremely potent “Sativa hybrid” with a “heavy yielding, ultra purple strain”. The results would be a purple strain with the potency added from that parent. What gets tricky is many strains like G-13 are extremely dominant and can take over a cross. When you cross BlueBerry and G-13, usually you just make a nasty tasting, watered down version of both. This doesn’t mean that there are not good Blueberry G-13 crosses; its just breeding is not as easy as 2+2=4. There is also a big difference between “breeders” and “seed makers”. Anyone can take a male and pollinate a female. This is not breeding; it is making copies with large variations. Again if they’re sold cheap, a winner can still be found if enough seeds are grown out. The difference is the selection process of the parent strains.
    The Momma’s and The Poppa’s
    Selection of the mother plant (or P1) was easy, Apollo-13 is in the top 3 of my favorite strains and I think it may be the most unique strain we have. Blending potency and a bizarre putrid-rotting-fruit smell, that make it a one of a kind. Selection of a male Black Russian was not as easy. The first mistake people make in selecting a male is by choosing the most vigorous. Remember those complexities I mentioned earlier? Well, the recessive drug traits we seek are stashed away in non-vigorous males. Think about the plant in the wild, the natural progression of Cannabis is back to Hemp. The drugs strains we have today are a direct result of human intervention. Robert Clark says it better “In the wild, the early males always win the breeding contest. Without proper selection, these early males cause "acclimatization" of the variety, and a decrease in drug quality. This is the "dominant" state of Cannabis. If it were otherwise, why would we need breeders? All you would have to do is let the plants do their own thing and they would become more potent over time, but they don't. The only way drug varieties ever get better is through human intervention in the natural order.”
    So, in order to find these recessive traits we choose males based loosely on the following. At time of germination are there any capitate trichomes on the cotyledon leaves? The number and frequency of non-glandular trichomes; this can be a great indicator of future glandular production. The earliest males to show sex get tossed, no ifs ands or buts. Dominant males are useless for drug (misuse of this rule has caused more hermaphrodite strains than the world deserves) Cannabis. If these basics are followed during each male selection process, then this gives us a much better chance of finding the genes we want. This is not meant to be a guide for anyone, just a basic explanation of what a “Cannabis Breeder” looks for when selecting strains to work with and/or improve upon.
    Sometimes taste is the desired goal or maybe potency. I have taken cherry flavored Ortega and crossed it with Killer Queen to create a cherry phenotype called Danny Boy. Danny Boy is done in 48 days and the taste is like cherry candy. The famed Jack’s Cleaner was crossed with a BlueBerry to create Batgirl and then JCB males from that cross have created entire seed companies. Our JCB male has blue pollen sacs and drips with resin.
    Also in the works is an Orange Velvet X Space Queen that will be our first Pineapple-Orange offering. This is MzJill’s creation so we have named it JillyBean. Orange Velvet is a PNW strain obtained from “some Hippies” as the story goes. Our goal is to create bad ass strains that we want to grow out and smoke ourselves. Once breeding pairs are selected then they are sent to BadBoy to replicate successful crosses or create insane new things BadBoy’s Astro Boy (Apollo-13 X Ortega C99).

    Outkast Seeds

    Outkast Seeds Well-Known Member

    Sputnik 1.0
    Once we had the Black Russian X Apollo-13 cross complete we gave it a name. Sputnik seemed like a logical selection and I think you can see we were beyond successful. We grew-out several seeds and we found that basically, we get two different phenotypes. The first is an eye-candy lady that you see so much of, starting with pink calyx and just oozing resin; we knew instantly we had achieved our desired results. Smelling like Blackberry jam and swelling to a wonderful large cola-covered-THC-factory. I will never tire of photographing this girl. At 4 weeks the pink stared changing to a magenta color and even the trichomes took on a pink to purple coloring. This particular phenotype, we gave the name Pinky. The other phenotype (Whitey) was a surprise to me and also a valuable learning experience! Whitey exhibited no purple coloring in fact the plant was ultra-white and during flowering, she almost smelled like a “blue cream soda”. As the plant matured it took on a weird pungent smell and before it cured out a bit, MzJill and I both thought it smelled pretty foul. After about two weeks of curing I decided to give it another chance and it knocked my socks off. A grower friend, who sampled it, said it almost gave her visuals. So we knew the cross had potential. Now how to improve on her again?
    Back Crossing
    The concept of back crossing, again is simple in theory, you only pollinate to your P1 mother plant using sibling male offspring. Selecting a male from the Sputnik 1.0 cross we then pollinated the Apollo-13 sugar mom, using a male selected by the criteria explained above. The first cross can be explained as a 50/50 and the second a 25/75 with 75% of her make up coming from the Apollo-13 mother. That 75% cross, or Sputnik 2.0, is now complete and ready for the final stage. The seeds arrived at Dr Chronic’s on 4/20, and are now available to the public. The great thing about using this breeding method is you don’t have to stop at 3 crosses; you can always do it again and see what happens. We have a different plan though. Once Sputnik 3.0 is complete, we will then grow out 100 seeds and select 10 males and 10 females. The best will be used to create “Cubed” Apollo-13; these seeds will be stable and extremely valuable representing thousands of hours of work. These seeds can be used to create true breeding IBL’s, or used to find more P1’s for future breeders to incorporate into there genetic pool. TGA and Subcool will continue to strive for the best in new crosses and the search for recessive genetics.

    (This was Jills Idea)
    P1-The name of the parent to which a hybrid is crossed in a backcross.
    F2- generation : The progeny resulting from self hybridization or inbreeding of F1 individuals is called Second Filial or F2 generation.
    F1- generation : The progeny produced from a cross between two parents (P1) is called First Filial or F1 generation.
    inbred line- (IBL) - A line produced by at least five generations of sequential inbreeding, self fertilization or backcrossing accompanied by selection within and between lines so that the individuals are considered to be homozygous, or nearly so.
    Homozygous - An individual possessing (receiving from parents) identical alleles for a trait is said to be homozygous or pure for that trait, e.g. plant with RR alleles is homozygous for the seed shape. A homozygous always breeds true for that trait.
    Phenotype - The external (morphological) appearance of an individual for any trait or traits is called the phenotype, e.g. for seeds, round shape or wrinkled shape is the phenotype
    Capitate-Botany: forming a head like mass or dense cluster, as the flowers of plants in the composite family. Enlarged and globular at the tip.
    Dominant - said of an allele which by itself alone will produce a particular phenotype regardless of which other allele may be present on the other matching chromosome of the diploid pair; thus it takes only one copy of the chromosome to cause a dominant trait to be expressed in the phenotype.
    Genome - the total genetic information possessed by an individual, a breed or a species.
    Genotype - the invisible genetic makeup of an individual organism, which includes alleles which may be recessive and therefore have no visible physical expression.
    Dopaw13, corners and grow1620 like this.

    Sensisansei Member

    I always love te oportunity to backcross and as im moving back to Cali. soon i have taken many mothers or gen 1 clones and self pollinated and and then started backcrossing to my desiered IBL line! Funny one of my very favorites is my F4 SpaceJill! The potency an Taste are threw the roof! Which, is one of my favorite things of backcrossing is selecting the perfect female and male(selective breeding)! This has worke wonders for me on many strains o get them ready to cross and create a hybrid strain. As i couldnt find a pure space queen i created a slightly c99dom F4 spacejill that is insane and i cannot wait to create my first hybrid with it which will either be an og kush cut i selfed and backcrossed and would take two of my favorite strains and combind the two! This has taken about a year to get all set up and the strains are finally stanle enough to create a solid F1 hybrid!!! A TGA Kush strain ive always wanted! Yet I just got 20 plush berry in the mail so will see how that goes in 6-8 weeks once back in the cali. SUN! Thanks TGA! If ever there is anything i can contribute or help with testing i will have the room as i will have three peopele or four living on my property all with medical 215 cards! Can you just renue it if youve already had one or when moving back in the state if feel i should get a new card and papers! Peace, SENSI
    PS. Have a Pink Lady Kush has nothing to do with yours i called it thaqt when i first smelled and saw it flower and i will be so excited to xhow you this plant as well as many more underground strains ive collected as i think you would appriciate them! PEACE, SENSI
    hazey grapes

    hazey grapes Well-Known Member

    bumpity bump bump bump! great info!

    jack's cleaner 2 is my current favorite strain. i like the visuals and that touchy feely warm euphoria. a nice complex buzz.

    i'll never be able to wrap my head around baby poo phenos of apollo 13 as catpiss is gross enough, but if the third dimension really does have pina colada phenos, that sounds much nicer. i'd love to see agent orange x killing fields with a name where no one dies. hey, that would be aOK (f)

    i've already bookmarked this so the next time anyone says TGA & subcool (thought it was just one person) don't do their own crossing, selecting and back crossing, they can argue with the breeder directly at the risk of looking very very stupid.

    keep up the good work making strains that get you high for real with nice flowering time too. not always a fan of the names though. pandora's box isn't a fave either, in name that is.

    eastcoastmo Well-Known Member

    Some wicked info in here!! Top job :D

    althor Well-Known Member

    And here all along I thought Subcool's breeding method was to put one of his handful of males in the room with a bunch of different clone only strains and let nature take it's course. Then slap a name on each different pheno and call it a new strain.
    18B likes this.
    Vincent VonBlown

    Vincent VonBlown New Member

    It would appear it's everyone's breeding method, from one extent to another.

    But it's a good idea, to try and get the best you can to breed with, don't you think?

    I mean, you wouldn't want to put together 2 things you thought were crap right?
    Vincent VonBlown

    Vincent VonBlown New Member

    Ditchweed X Ruderalis, how's that sound for a cross?

    Think maybe we'd get a winner from the F1 generation?
    18B likes this.

    eastcoastmo Well-Known Member

    Lol yeah man it would be totally killer weed hey :lol:
    Vincent VonBlown

    Vincent VonBlown New Member

    We could call it Rudweed, or Ditcheralis.

    But Seriously, I've thought a lot about names for strains. I thought about just numbering them rather then giving them actual names. Like it wouldn't matter if they were good, and you gave good descriptions right?

    Seems a bit boring though, I think they sound better with names.

    Or maybe with names and numbers... Here's my best name for a new strain. Remember this is my name ;)
    Okay, here it is ~Dank #1~

    Sounds pretty cool I think, Dank #1
    18B and Nugachino like this.

    eastcoastmo Well-Known Member

    Ha ha yeah ditcheralis sounds gold! Steer clear of that one lol

    Im actually surprised no one has named any strains Dank or The Dank etc, quite a fitting name for good solid, sticky buds :D i'll let you keep it man :lol:

    drolove Well-Known Member

    lol for some reason subcool gets a bad rep for his breeding methods but if you look at the plants hes growing how can you argue that?!? hes by far MY favorite breeder. what ever hes doing, it looks like hes doing it right!

    2shade Member

    i am a noob to this but once i have pollinated the female , what do i do with a male and female once i have the seed. i hope i don't sound to dumb but do i just leave them both in flower till i want to repeat this process

    drolove Well-Known Member

    kill the male off once its pollenated your female and you kill the female off when you harvest it for seeds. gotta start all over after that.

    bullSnot Well-Known Member

    What additional nutes are needed for seeds

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    No additional nutes needed. I often pollinate a few buds on a lower branch or two then harvest the plant as normal leaving that seeded branch on until the seeds are ripe then take it. Can always try to reveg the plant after if you like it.
    Nugachino and mmjmon like this.

    bullSnot Well-Known Member

    just seeded HSO Blue Dream with HSO Blue Dream. I have a boatload of seeds now, probably going to gift em
    Nugachino, OldMedUser and mmjmon like this.

    mmjmon Well-Known Member

    Great thread to revive from 2013 guys.

    bullSnot Well-Known Member

    Ever read an old Book? Education has no expiration date ;)
    Lucky Luke

    Lucky Luke Well-Known Member

    good stuff in here from Subcool.
    cindysid and OldMedUser like this.

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