Strip LEDs in the garden of Paradise

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
pots2.jpg
It's a generic term used to describe either run-to-waste or recirculating hydro.

If you look closely you'll see there is one 2-gallon pot sitting inside the other. The inner pot is a normal plant pot with drainage holes. It's obviously filled with coco. The catchment pot - the outer pot - has no holes in the bottom, and so you need to drill a hole near the outer bottom and then plumb the hole with a grommet and small pipe connector which is attached to the green hose in this picture. The plants are watered via the black 4mm feed line that is connected to a 13mm main line that runs to a pond pump inside a remote reservoir. The pump is on a timer which comes on for one minute every 2 hours 40 minutes. The nutrient is pumped from the res into the plant pots, and then the runoff drains into the catchment pot, out the pipe and into the green drainage lines. The waste then runs along a hose which exits the tent, runs along the floor, and then runs under the eaves of the roof and into the garden below.

In a recirculating system, those green hoses would run back to the reservoir and be pumped around again. The main difference is that in a recirculating system, the plant pots would usually be filled with hydroton or other innert material, and the pump would run 24/7, constantly pumping nutrient solution into the pots, which drains out and back to the reservoir and so forth in a continuous loop.

It is possible, but you would generally not use coco in a recirculating system because coco sediment can easily clog your lines and, even if you used a sock-type filter around the pump and/or strainer back into the reservoir, hydroton and vermiculite etc offer much better aeration for a constantly wet root system.

Coco is best suited to run-to-waste - much like soil and soilless grows need runoff every time they are watered.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
catchpots.jpg
Another close-up showing the catchment pots, rubber grommets, pipe connectors and waste hoses. Black feed lines are to the right.

The beauty of the pot-within-a-pot system is you can take plants out and move them around to any station. You also don't disturb other plants, say at harvest time when one plant finishes earlier than the others and needs to be removed, or if you just want to try a bit of "Tetris" and move smaller and bigger plants around so their leaves interlock and offer the most even canopy spread.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
buckets.png
Any hydro store will have the pots without holes in them, but as you rightly suggested, you can make your own with 3 or 5 gallon buckets. I would use the 3 gallon buckets for my system: the lips of the buckets allow one to sit inside the other with a gap at the bottom for the drainage hole and pipe connector. You need that gap - you do not want your inner bucket sitting on top of the pipe connector because the pressure will compromise the seal between the plastic connector and rubber grommet and leak waste nutrient everywhere.
 

projectinfo

Well-Known Member
I jut made a bridgelux eb strip lights 480w on a 2x4 haha nice grow man and keep up the good info :) I'm going straight coco next grow.

What size pots are you using?

I'm thinking I could get 8 to 10 small plants in 2 gal pots on a 2x4 table , what do you think?
 

Attachments

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
View attachment 4054807
In case you're wondering, I'm a big fan of Paradise Seeds. I've grown many of their strains over the years, and nearly always found something I liked. For this grow I've just started to flower six Acid and two Sensi Star plants from femmed seeds. This is the first time I've grown Acid (a Diesel hybrid), and the first time I've grown femminised Sensi Star. The Sensi Star are growing well, and the Acid are all pretty uniform - though they weren't always that way. I'll start from the start in a moment . . .

It's been almost three years since my last grow, mainly due to work. I'm a bit rusty, so I've gone back to the basics that served me well for many years of indoor growing:

Straight coco
2-gallon grow pots
2-gallon catch pots (pot-within-a-pot system)
Timed drip feeders (two 4mm lines per pot, fed five times for one minute every 12-hour lights-on period)
Aerated 15-gallon reservoir
Run-to-waste (cheap garden hose that runs outside into the garden)
Organic-based nutrients
Silica additive
pH 5.8-6.3
Natural pest remedies if/when needed

What has changed for this grow is I'm using Samsung strip LEDs. 220w for vegging and 480w+ for flowering. I've always been a die-hard HPS bare-bulb vertical grower, starting back in 2003 after being inspired by Krusty's bucket grows on Overgrow. I grew in a 4x4' with 1200w (two 600w bare bulbs hanging one on top of the other) and averaged 1.3-1.4 grams per bulb watt each grow.

View attachment 4054814

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11oz Catpiss Haze (grown as test seeds, now sold as "Atomical Haze" by Paradise.

View attachment 4054818
Catpiss Haze mid-flower from about 10 years ago.

View attachment 4054819
8oz Sensi Star regular at harvest.


Everyone laughed at vertical growers when we first began - much like everyone has laughed at LED growers over the years - but the results speak for themselves, and there are many advantages to going vertical (head space, columnular cooling, better use of light etc).

We tried some blurple "UFO" LEDs about seven years ago, but were really disappointed with the results. Lately, though, LEDs seem to have reached the point where they can equal - possibly best - HIDs without the prohibitive start-up costs - especially if you build your own lights.

So I knew nothing about LEDs a few months ago until I started browsing this forum and want to thank everyone who has contributed for helping me "see the light", so to speak :bigjoint:

View attachment 4054810
I use straight coco because you cannot overwater if you have proper drainage, so there is really no point adding perlite/vermiculite or hydroton. Hydroton takes up space for roots, and perlite/vermiculite requires more waterings and doesn't hold/buffer nutrient as well as straight coco, so is not as ideal for a run-to-waste system.

The coco above is buffered with Calcium and Magnesium. It's important to use a good quality coco, as many of the cheap bricks/bags have high amounts of sea salt that need to be leached prior to use (by flushing with warm water).

Contrary to popular belief, RTW systems do not waste a lot of nutrient. In a recirculating system, you have to dump your reservoir every one-to-two weeks max. With RTW, most of your nutrient is being used by the plants, and any excess is constantly flushed out of the pots, leaving a healthy balance and very little salt build-up. Waste nutrient can also be diverted back into your garden. My system will probably go through about 15 gallons of nutrient solution a week.

I've always used Canadian Xpress nutrient, as it's made locally (Australia) and the coco blend is formulated for tap water. Most limestone-based tap water already has a decent amount of calcium and some magnesium in it. Your mileage may vary . . .

CX was the first to develope "fusion" nutrients (as far as I know), which use a mineral-based Part A (with micronutrients) and an organic-based Part B. I draw buckets of tap water and let them sit for 48 hours prior to use to dissipate any chlorine in the water. My tap water does not have chloramine.

Monsta Bud is another local organic-based product which is a one-part stand-alone flowering formula which I use as a PK supplement to the CX. I normally start off with about 3.5ml per litre CX of Part A and B, then slowly replace the CX with Monsta Bud from Week 3 until harvest.

Budlink is another local product, and one of the first commercial silica additives. It's been around for years, and I feed it as a Part C at 2.5ml/l (you can also foliar feed it). Tap water usually contains a small amount of silicic acid, but silica is an element usually missing in hydro/coco and it does provide benefits by strengthening cell walls, thus providing drought and some pest resistance.

View attachment 4054861
As we're coming into summer, it's about to get bloody hot here. That's why - despite being a sativa diva - I chose indicas to grow first up. They're more compact, won't stretch as much in the heat, and I don't have to worry about mold at this time of the year, which is when indicas are least prone to bud rot.

I started a 10-pack of femmed Acid by dropping them in a glass of water until all the seeds sank (the next day), indicating they had absorbed enough water to germinate. I then laid the seeds out on a damp paper towel, covered with more paper towel, and put them in a dark cupboard. Some seeds started showing tails the next day, and nearly all had fully germinated within three days of soaking.

One Acid seed failed to germinate - it cracked open but didn't go any further - while another was slow and got desiccated. This can happen if you place the germinated seed near the surface of the coco, and the surface dries out before the tap root can reach down into the moist coco below.

The seedling pots are straight coco soaked with 1/4 strength nutrient solution at pH5.8.

About six days after germinating the Acid, I decided to germinate two Sens Star seeds just in case a couple of the Acid didn't make it. I needed eight plants for my flowering tent. 10 seeds (8 Acid, 2 Sensi Star) made it, and I had to cull two Acid a few weeks later - but I kept clones, just in case . . .
Welcome to the dark side....
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I jut made a bridgelux eb strip lights 480w on a 2x4 haha nice grow man and keep up the good info :) I'm going straight coco next grow.

What size pots are you using?

I'm thinking I could get 8 to 10 small plants in 2 gal pots on a 2x4 table , what do you think?
2 gallon pots. If you do the maths, you can get eight evenly spaced pots per square foot - just like I've got. :)

I'm assuming 4x2 is the inner dimensions of your flood/drain tables?
 

klx

Well-Known Member
Mate, any fan of Mad Max is a friend of mine!
"2 days ago I saw a vehicle that'd haul that tanker. You wanna get out of here? You talk to me" A true classic!

Do yourself a favour: if you like indicas, get some Sensi Star - there's a reason it's been around so long and won so many cups.
I do like Indicas. I was just recently in the States and used the opportunity to order some Sweet Tooth #3, been after it for years and years. I have a shitload of beans in my fridge to get through but will add some sensi to my next order!

I see you mentioned fungus gnats. I have tried straight coco but the gnats put me off. I got through 3 runs before going back to clay balls. I prefer sterile rez indoors and I dont like to use any pesticide. As soon as the coco was gone. so were the gnats.
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Super Thread, nothing else I expected!
You really have triggert the urge in me to do a coco run, LOL! Like a coco messiah...
Your bucket-in-bucket solution is as simple as it is ingenious!
With respect, I have already taken notes and made a shopping list, hehe...
A few things like hoses and so I have already(used blumats in the past) I only need the buckets and a good buffered coco. Atami seems to be a good choice, better as the coco bricks hopefully, but there is anyway not much to choose here where I live. It is washed, steamed and buffered but I don't know if it's calmag buffered.
My tap water is realy low, only 0,15mS/PH7,5-8,0.
Do you think I should add some Ca and Mg to the nutrient solution? I already have Canna Mono fertilizers and could add 30ppm MgO² and 80ppm CaO² or should I wait better for the first symtomes to show?
You have triggered the urge, now you have to live with my questions ..
 
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projectinfo

Well-Known Member
Super Thread, nothing else I expected!
You really have triggert the urge in me to do a coco run, LOL! Like a coco messiah...
Your bucket-in-bucket solution is as simple as it is ingenious!
With respect, I have already taken notes and made a shopping list, hehe...
A few things like hoses and so I have already(used blumats in the past) I only need the buckets and a good buffered coco. Atami seems to be a good choice, better as the coco bricks hopefully, but there is anyway not much to choose here where I live. It is washed, steamed and buffered but I don't know if it's calmag buffered.
My tap water is realy low, only 0,15mS/PH7,5-8,0.
Do you think I should add some Ca and Mg to the nutrient solution? I already have Canna Mono fertilizers and could add 30ppm MgO² and 80ppm CaO² or should I wait better for the first symtomes to show?
You have triggered the urge, now you have to live with my questions ..

Haha yes man, coco strip grows.... After Christmas for me. :)
 

projectinfo

Well-Known Member
2 gallon pots. If you do the maths, you can get eight evenly spaced pots per square foot - just like I've got. :)

I'm assuming 4x2 is the inner dimensions of your flood/drain tables?
2x4, is out outside, shit lol

Wondering why you chose a round pot for the inside, do your roots circle?

I was thinking smart pots or do they dry too fast?
 

Moflow

Well-Known Member
View attachment 4055174
Another close-up showing the catchment pots, rubber grommets, pipe connectors and waste hoses. Black feed lines are to the right.

The beauty of the pot-within-a-pot system is you can take plants out and move them around to any station. You also don't disturb other plants, say at harvest time when one plant finishes earlier than the others and needs to be removed, or if you just want to try a bit of "Tetris" and move smaller and bigger plants around so their leaves interlock and offer the most even canopy spread.
I used to use a pot in a pot flood n drain system. 48 pots.
Hydroton stones. Very easy to swap pots from the edges to the middle.
I'e never used the coco tho.
 

projectinfo

Well-Known Member
http://cycoflower.com/usa/cyco-coco-coir/

This stuff is ph buffered. No ca, mg.

Do you guys alwase wash your coco until the buffer quits or just right out of the bag into your containers??

And you said straight coco. But is there any other nutrient additives you mix in like silica, CA, mg. Before your plants go in?
 

projectinfo

Well-Known Member
Super Thread, nothing else I expected!
You really have triggert the urge in me to do a coco run, LOL! Like a coco messiah...
Your bucket-in-bucket solution is as simple as it is ingenious!
With respect, I have already taken notes and made a shopping list, hehe...
A few things like hoses and so I have already(used blumats in the past) I only need the buckets and a good buffered coco. Atami seems to be a good choice, better as the coco bricks hopefully, but there is anyway not much to choose here where I live. It is washed, steamed and buffered but I don't know if it's calmag buffered.
My tap water is realy low, only 0,15mS/PH7,5-8,0.
Do you think I should add some Ca and Mg to the nutrient solution? I already have Canna Mono fertilizers and could add 30ppm MgO² and 80ppm CaO² or should I wait better for the first symtomes to show?
You have triggered the urge, now you have to live with my questions ..
I'd start with a low dose. You'll need it with coco anyway, but watch the undergrowth for defs.
 

Moflow

Well-Known Member
2x4, is out outside, shit lol

Wondering why you chose a round pot for the inside, do your roots circle?

I was thinking smart pots or do they dry too fast?
I've used the cloth pots before, the Plant It ones, by the time i filled it with soil to bursting point it ended up round! I'm not keen on them, they grow nice plants but i like to move my plants about and it might be damaging the roots.
I might add I hand water, use bio bizz light mix, verm, per, and sand mix, no automation.
I'm trying those Airpots right now, the black plastic ones with the pointy bits.
Another pain in the ass to hand water . If i was using these on a regular basis I'd need to build a drainage shelf.
Here's a Paradise Seeds Wappa in the pot.20171201_185538.jpg
It's either 26l or 31l..... can't remember now, that was about a week ago.
 

Dave455

Well-Known Member
I jut made a bridgelux eb strip lights 480w on a 2x4 haha nice grow man and keep up the good info :) I'm going straight coco next grow.

What size pots are you using?

I'm thinking I could get 8 to 10 small plants in 2 gal pots on a 2x4 table , what do you think?
Believe that light will crush it !!!
 
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