Spider mites near harvest time... What to do??

troutfarm

troutfarm

Well-Known Member
Hello everyone, this is my first post!

I have a small/big problem that I’m hoping the experts here can help me with. First, a little back story…. I’ve grown a few plants over the years for personal use with much success. I have a simple indoor setup where I grow a single plant at a time, in soil, using sun fluorescent bulbs from Home Depot.

A friend of mine gave me a plant from his garden that was already about 8 inches tall a few months ago. I switched it to indoor using my setup and it did very well. About 9 weeks ago I noticed there were some webs on the plant and after some reading and testing (drag white paper under leaves looking for smears), I realized I had spider mites. After more reading I tried the dish-soap and water spray bottle trick and hammered the crap out of the underside of the leaves. After a few days it looked like the mites were gone but over the next week or two the plant got VERY unhealthy, almost dead I think. I just kept watering to try to flush the soap away and eventually the plant got healthy again. I removed most of the old unhealthy leaves and trimmed some low-yield branches away. Soon after, the plant looked good again, I switched from 20/4 light cycle to flowering 12/12 and again the plant flourished. Lots of healthy buds and all was looking good.

The plant is nearing harvest time and just now I was using my microscope to check the trichomes (mostly milky, some clear, but no amber yet), when all of a sudden a spider walked through my lens…. And I saw a web or two again. Now, everything still looks healthy and good with the plant and I think I can harvest in the next week or so.

My questions are:

1. Should I try to do something about the spider mites now or just continue with flushing the fertilizer out with water and harvest on schedule?
2. Is there a way to clean the buds after harvest so I’m not smoking spiders? (eg. Can I rinse them in water before drying and curing to remove webs and spiders?)
3. Is there a safe approach at this point to deal with spider mites?
4. Any other advice?

I’ve attached a picture just so people can see the plant/bud, of course the resolution won’t show the mites.

Thanks for any help!

cc.jpg
 
dbkick

dbkick

Well-Known Member
yes, mighty wash and then the next day or so a nice rinse. The rinse of course more to rinse away dead mites and eggs. the mighty wash is 99.8335 percent water and the rest inert ingredients.
 
M

max420thc

Well-Known Member
AVID LUCID or floromite.The problem is your nugs are going to taste like spider mites.The avid or lucid can be used as close to 2 weeks from harvest but after you use it ON EVERYTHING NOT JUST THE PLANTS..the floors walls everything,. you will start washing it off with pure clean water the next day.Almost nothing else i have ever seen will get rid of spider mites other than the products i just listed..and yea..they are real expensive.the lucid can be found on ebay and it is the same as AVID..just allot less expensive.good luck ,Kill em all let god sort them out..Kill a few million of em for me too..i hate spider mites.
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
max420thc said:
AVID LUCID or floromite.The problem is your nugs are going to taste like spider mites.The avid or lucid can be used as close to 2 weeks from harvest but after you use it ON EVERYTHING NOT JUST THE PLANTS..the floors walls everything,. you will start washing it off with pure clean water the next day.Almost nothing else i have ever seen will get rid of spider mites other than the products i just listed..and yea..they are real expensive.the lucid can be found on ebay and it is the same as AVID..just allot less expensive.good luck ,Kill em all let god sort them out..Kill a few million of em for me too..i hate spider mites.
Click to expand...
WORST ADVISE EVER!!!!


The active ingredient of many abamectin products, like AvidTM, ZephyrTM, VertimecTM or Agri-MekTM, is actually a mixture of 80% avermectin B[SUB]1a[/SUB] and 20% avermectin B[SUB]1b[/SUB] (FCH 2000). These B[SUB]1a[/SUB] and B[SUB]1b[/SUB] avermectins are purified from a chemically complex insecticidal/miticidal toxin produced by an actinomycete bacterium, Streptomyces avermitilis, found in soil. Although, abamectin is a natural fermentation product of this bacterium, the pesticide is classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a class II toxicity pesticide on a scale of I to IV, I being the most toxic. Abamectin has been fully evaluated by EPA for its effects on human health or the environment.
Mode of Action

Like most other insecticides, avermectins are nerve poisons. They stimulate the gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) system, a chemical “transmitter” produced at nerve endings, which inhibits both nerve to nerve and nerve to muscle communication. The affected insect becomes paralyzed, stops feeding, and dies after a few days. AvidTM, used against mites and leaf-miners, is said to spare some of the major parasites of the miner and some predacious mites. When applied to foliage, it is absorbed by the leaves, where feeding insects encounter the poison.
Toxicity

Technical avermectin is quite acutely toxic, with an oral rat LD[SUB]50[/SUB] (lethal dose for 50% of the test rats) of 30 mg/kg. EPA reviewed toxicological data from the manufacturer in connection with a 1987 petition for establishment of a tolerance in citrus oil and citrus pulp. EPA’s reviewers found that avermectin does not cause birth defects in rats and rabbits, but can cause cleft palate in mice. The calculated “lowest effect level (LEL)” for the latter effect was quite low at 0.10 mg/kg/day. EPA reviewers stated that “studies on mutagenicity demonstrated an overall negative potential (ETN 1996).
Abamectin has been shown to cause pupil dilation, mild skin irritation, vomiting, convulsions and/or tremors and coma in laboratory animals. Because it is a nerve poison, it can also cause nervous system depression in mammals at very high doses. A study in rats given 0.40 mg/kg/day of abamectin showed decreased lactation, increased stillbirths and an increased likelihood of producing unhealthy offspring, demonstrating a strong chance of similar effects in humans at high enough doses. Abamectin is also very toxic to fish and aquatic invertebrates (FCH 2000).
Environmental Fate

Abamectin is broken down quickly in the soil via photodegradation at the soil surface and microbial degradation in dark, aerobic conditions. The chemicals half-life is about 1 week on an unshaded soil surface and about two weeks to two months underneath the soil surface. It is also rapidly broken down in water, its half-life being four days in pond water and two to four weeks in pond sediment (ETN 1996).
References:
Extension Toxicology Network (ETN). 1996. Pesticide Information Profiles: Abamectin. <http://ace.orst.edu/cgi-bin/mfs/01/pips/abamecti.htm.>
Farm Chemicals Handbook 2000 (FCT). 2000. Meister Publishing Co. Willoughby, OH.
Hoy, M. and J. Conley. 1987. &#8220;Toxicity of pesticides to western predatory mite.&#8221; California Agriculture 41:12-14.
Moar, W. and J. Trumble. 1987. &#8220;Biologically derived insecticides for use against beet control.&#8221; California Agriculture Nov/Dec issue.
Parella, M. 1987. &#8220;Pest control.&#8221; Greenhouse Manager November: 105-108.
Stinson, S. 1988. &#8220;Total synthesis of avermectin achieved.&#8221; Chemical & Engineering News January 4.
 
edyah

edyah

Well-Known Member
I would just not spray a thing and get to harvest, as you said your trichs are getting close so you are almost ready....bugs are a part of life....I understand you may not want to do this and for reason, but this is my take on the matter.

If your plant looks like it can make it and since you have one plant under floros I would take my finger and swipe off the spiders under the leaves....not that labor intensive. You may not get them all but perhaps preadventure you keep them in check for another 1-2 weeks for a harvest.
 
troutfarm

troutfarm

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the responses everyone, I just read a post by calibuzz in the BUG problem section talking about using a habanera pepper solution and I think I will try that today. I was more concerned as to whether I should even try to deal with the problem at this point since the plant is so close to harvest. But, if this habanera pepper solution is all natural, no chemicals, and somewhat effective, I figure it's worth a try.

Ordering products from the internet isn't going to work for me either. I'm in Canada and by the time the mail arrives it will be at least 3 or 4 days from now, at which point I'll probably only be a few days from harvest so no time to apply and wait for results by then... especially if some sort of flushing is required after application.

If anyone has any further input I'm very interested but as for now, I'm off to the market to get some peppers!

Thanks
 
M

max420thc

Well-Known Member
chuck estevez said:
WORST ADVISE EVER!!!!


The active ingredient of many abamectin products, like AvidTM, ZephyrTM, VertimecTM or Agri-MekTM, is actually a mixture of 80% avermectin B[SUB]1a[/SUB] and 20% avermectin B[SUB]1b[/SUB] (FCH 2000). These B[SUB]1a[/SUB] and B[SUB]1b[/SUB] avermectins are purified from a chemically complex insecticidal/miticidal toxin produced by an actinomycete bacterium, Streptomyces avermitilis, found in soil. Although, abamectin is a natural fermentation product of this bacterium, the pesticide is classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a class II toxicity pesticide on a scale of I to IV, I being the most toxic. Abamectin has been fully evaluated by EPA for its effects on human health or the environment.
Mode of Action

Like most other insecticides, avermectins are nerve poisons. They stimulate the gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) system, a chemical &#8220;transmitter&#8221; produced at nerve endings, which inhibits both nerve to nerve and nerve to muscle communication. The affected insect becomes paralyzed, stops feeding, and dies after a few days. AvidTM, used against mites and leaf-miners, is said to spare some of the major parasites of the miner and some predacious mites. When applied to foliage, it is absorbed by the leaves, where feeding insects encounter the poison.
Toxicity

Technical avermectin is quite acutely toxic, with an oral rat LD[SUB]50[/SUB] (lethal dose for 50% of the test rats) of 30 mg/kg. EPA reviewed toxicological data from the manufacturer in connection with a 1987 petition for establishment of a tolerance in citrus oil and citrus pulp. EPA&#8217;s reviewers found that avermectin does not cause birth defects in rats and rabbits, but can cause cleft palate in mice. The calculated &#8220;lowest effect level (LEL)&#8221; for the latter effect was quite low at 0.10 mg/kg/day. EPA reviewers stated that &#8220;studies on mutagenicity demonstrated an overall negative potential (ETN 1996).
Abamectin has been shown to cause pupil dilation, mild skin irritation, vomiting, convulsions and/or tremors and coma in laboratory animals. Because it is a nerve poison, it can also cause nervous system depression in mammals at very high doses. A study in rats given 0.40 mg/kg/day of abamectin showed decreased lactation, increased stillbirths and an increased likelihood of producing unhealthy offspring, demonstrating a strong chance of similar effects in humans at high enough doses. Abamectin is also very toxic to fish and aquatic invertebrates (FCH 2000).
Environmental Fate

Abamectin is broken down quickly in the soil via photodegradation at the soil surface and microbial degradation in dark, aerobic conditions. The chemicals half-life is about 1 week on an unshaded soil surface and about two weeks to two months underneath the soil surface. It is also rapidly broken down in water, its half-life being four days in pond water and two to four weeks in pond sediment (ETN 1996).
References:
Extension Toxicology Network (ETN). 1996. Pesticide Information Profiles: Abamectin. <http://ace.orst.edu/cgi-bin/mfs/01/pips/abamecti.htm.>
Farm Chemicals Handbook 2000 (FCT). 2000. Meister Publishing Co. Willoughby, OH.
Hoy, M. and J. Conley. 1987. &#8220;Toxicity of pesticides to western predatory mite.&#8221; California Agriculture 41:12-14.
Moar, W. and J. Trumble. 1987. &#8220;Biologically derived insecticides for use against beet control.&#8221; California Agriculture Nov/Dec issue.
Parella, M. 1987. &#8220;Pest control.&#8221; Greenhouse Manager November: 105-108.
Stinson, S. 1988. &#8220;Total synthesis of avermectin achieved.&#8221; Chemical & Engineering News January 4.
Click to expand...
Very good post thanks for the information.
That being said the EPA also says lead paint if you eat it will kill you.What they dont say is you have to eat two tons of it for it to kill you.
allot of true organic growers or non chemical growers have the argument that everything will kill you.If that were the case we would all be dead.Did you see the amount they had to give some poor rat to kill it?My son came in the other day talking about GMF .I explained it to him that 200 years ago they didnt even get half the crop size that we get today thanks to GMF.people around the world live and eat better because of GMF.Some people are of the belief that this food will kill you .But if you were in some third world country that depended upon this food you would think starvation is what kills you.Crop size is larger now..drought resistant .disease resistant. and feeds more people per acre that it ever used to.Thanks to modern chemistry.Many farmers use this stuff in their orchards that produce food for consumption every single day that people eat..every single day if used responsibly and according to directions i dont see a thing wrong with using it.I do not intentionally ever spray a plant with it unless it has mites itself if you are doing a normal PM same as any well run garden spraying for pests is part of a routine with alternating products as pests can build resistance.To keep them out is way better to try and get them out after they have a foot hold.Neem oil ,einstien oil things like this are great to help keep them out.But these things will never get rid of them after they get a foot hold.For sure if i had them and were doing a room clean up the room would get nuked with avid and clean cleaned.good luck to all.
 
S

skoobie dew

Well-Known Member
troutfarm said:
Hello everyone, this is my first post!

I have a small/big problem that I’m hoping the experts here can help me with. First, a little back story…. I’ve grown a few plants over the years for personal use with much success. I have a simple indoor setup where I grow a single plant at a time, in soil, using sun fluorescent bulbs from Home Depot.

A friend of mine gave me a plant from his garden that was already about 8 inches tall a few months ago. I switched it to indoor using my setup and it did very well. About 9 weeks ago I noticed there were some webs on the plant and after some reading and testing (drag white paper under leaves looking for smears), I realized I had spider mites. After more reading I tried the dish-soap and water spray bottle trick and hammered the crap out of the underside of the leaves. After a few days it looked like the mites were gone but over the next week or two the plant got VERY unhealthy, almost dead I think. I just kept watering to try to flush the soap away and eventually the plant got healthy again. I removed most of the old unhealthy leaves and trimmed some low-yield branches away. Soon after, the plant looked good again, I switched from 20/4 light cycle to flowering 12/12 and again the plant flourished. Lots of healthy buds and all was looking good.

The plant is nearing harvest time and just now I was using my microscope to check the trichomes (mostly milky, some clear, but no amber yet), when all of a sudden a spider walked through my lens…. And I saw a web or two again. Now, everything still looks healthy and good with the plant and I think I can harvest in the next week or so.

My questions are:

1. Should I try to do something about the spider mites now or just continue with flushing the fertilizer out with water and harvest on schedule?
2. Is there a way to clean the buds after harvest so I’m not smoking spiders? (eg. Can I rinse them in water before drying and curing to remove webs and spiders?)
3. Is there a safe approach at this point to deal with spider mites?
4. Any other advice?

I’ve attached a picture just so people can see the plant/bud, of course the resolution won’t show the mites.

Thanks for any help!

View attachment 2814779
Click to expand...
Last two weeks you can use neem, garlic oil spray, hot pepper spray, ect. Do it with temps below 76 at the beginning of the dark cycle. Any synthetic poison is a bad idea. Even permethrin bombs have permethrin butoxide... nasty stuff.

If you are only a few days from harvest, do nothing, or try shop vacuuming webs. Essentially you are screwed at this point and just have to roll with it.

Garlic and hot pepper sprays will leave a smell on your product if you use it too close to harvest.
 
Y0da

Y0da

Well-Known Member
If you have a majority of milky trichs perhaps consider harvesting now and avoid all the nasties?
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
max420thc said:
Very good post thanks for the information.
That being said the EPA also says lead paint if you eat it will kill you.What they dont say is you have to eat two tons of it for it to kill you.
allot of true organic growers or non chemical growers have the argument that everything will kill you.If that were the case we would all be dead.Did you see the amount they had to give some poor rat to kill it?My son came in the other day talking about GMF .I explained it to him that 200 years ago they didnt even get half the crop size that we get today thanks to GMF.people around the world live and eat better because of GMF.Some people are of the belief that this food will kill you .But if you were in some third world country that depended upon this food you would think starvation is what kills you.Crop size is larger now..drought resistant .disease resistant. and feeds more people per acre that it ever used to.Thanks to modern chemistry.Many farmers use this stuff in their orchards that produce food for consumption every single day that people eat..every single day if used responsibly and according to directions i dont see a thing wrong with using it.I do not intentionally ever spray a plant with it unless it has mites itself if you are doing a normal PM same as any well run garden spraying for pests is part of a routine with alternating products as pests can build resistance.To keep them out is way better to try and get them out after they have a foot hold.Neem oil ,einstien oil things like this are great to help keep them out.But these things will never get rid of them after they get a foot hold.For sure if i had them and were doing a room clean up the room would get nuked with avid and clean cleaned.good luck to all.
Click to expand...
Avid is ok for veg, but never on a flowering plant. that goes for any chemicals.
 
dbkick

dbkick

Well-Known Member
max420thc said:
AVID LUCID or floromite.The problem is your nugs are going to taste like spider mites.The avid or lucid can be used as close to 2 weeks from harvest but after you use it ON EVERYTHING NOT JUST THE PLANTS..the floors walls everything,. you will start washing it off with pure clean water the next day.Almost nothing else i have ever seen will get rid of spider mites other than the products i just listed..and yea..they are real expensive.the lucid can be found on ebay and it is the same as AVID..just allot less expensive.good luck ,Kill em all let god sort them out..Kill a few million of em for me too..i hate spider mites.
Click to expand...
Do to yourself wtf you want but my god man wtf are you thinking giving someone advice like this? Those pesticides are systemic which means there will be a good level of toxic chemicals IN not on your plant for 45 days so you won't be "washing it off" as you say.
 
SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Well-Known Member
A few months ago I had spidermites for the first time really bad. I tried shit loads of stuff. I was given alot of gear and nutes when a freind of mine passed and found a bottle each of pure-3way and pure kapow. A couple treatments was all it took for me. I was late in flower also. This is organic and worked for me. Even neem did nothing... I used no pest strips at one point and they just swarmed it. It is at least worth a shot for you. Here is a link to the website for the products:

https://www.purenutrient.net/pure-3-way-home/
https://www.purenutrient.net/kapow/

Ive been on this board a long while now and I would never intentionally lead anyone the wrong way. In my eyes though it is best to stay away from poisons if you can.
 
dbkick

dbkick

Well-Known Member
Pure 3-Way uses only the finest natural ingredients. We electrically agitate the product to be polarized and ready for use. We mix all ingredients and emulsify using our ELECTRO emulsifying technique to ad a polar charge to the mixture. Some products may claim that their mixture holds an Electric charge, this is simply not the case.

Is this the first mighty wash rip off we're seeing or is mighty wash the kapow rip off, or neither?
kapow sounds exactly like mighty wash . Mighty wash doesn't contain the lemon grass oil that I know of and that may be the fungicide part of it.
 
SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Well-Known Member
I have no idea... But the stuff worked for me. I only went on the website after finding the bottle in this huge bin of nutrients and other stuff I was given. It was the only thing that did it. Harvested bud was all uninfected and tasted like it should. I use it in small amounts now on a regular basis as a little prevention.

I never used mighty wash but I have seen that it is effective for a lot of people.
 
dbkick

dbkick

Well-Known Member
yeah , I think it's the same as mighty wash, I use mighty wash in flower, the shit kills.
someone here on the forum toke a swig or two to prove a point I think, I wouldn't recommend that but IF I were about to die of dehydration and had nothing else I'd give it a go. 99.8335 percent water the rest inert ingredients, I think that this part of their ad is aimed at mighty wash " Some products may claim that their mixture holds an Electric charge, this is simply not the case."
 
S

SSHZ

Well-Known Member
Love these mite threads.......so many of them and so much BAD advice.

Mighty Wash can be used up to the day of harvest. Apply in the dark and a cool room, go back in a few hours later and wash the plants well with fresh water. You can spray every day if you wish. Concentrate on the leaves, not the buds. Make sure the containers are well mixed before applying.

Liquid Ladybug use essential oils that quickly evaporate off the plants and also can be used up to harvest. Not as good as Mighty Wash but works ok with a thorough spraying.

Pluck the worse of the sun leaves to quickly reduce the mite population, lower temps as much as possible to slow mite reproduction down too. You can spray with cool water too, but then mold could be an issue. Keep fans blowing at high.

Doktor Doom make a pyretheum mite kill spray (highly concentrated!) that is quite effect at low mistings. I wouldn't recommend the pyretheum bombs at this point.

Avid, Forbid and Floramite in veg only. Floramite is approved for tomatoes and some other vegetables. The others are not- ornamentals (roses and the like) only. Always rotate these 3 as mites build up tolerances after just 1 application.

I do not recommend the following but many people have good success with Hot Shots.......they release a killing vapor but are carcenogenic to humans, which some of you may be.

Pepper sprays are bad news, make the buds taste "hot and spicey".......don't use them.
 
dbkick

dbkick

Well-Known Member
I just used flying skull nuke em. I bought some after a user here said he had great success with it. Advertises "ingredients you might find in bread" .
They are very specific on the bottle about ingredients though and those are water, yeast, citric acid as inert ingredients. .01 % potassium sorbate as active ingredient.
not for sale in 3 states , odd.
It claims to do several insects and is also a fungicide. So far I like the mighty wash but I'm open minded anymore because in the beginning I thought mighty wash was bullshit.
 
B

Bladegotlaid

New Member
5 liters of vinegar and a tub of bicarbonate of soda. You would need to setup a system were you could collect the co2 from the reaction between the vinegar and the bicarb.
Ive used bottle with tubing.
On lights out i've sealed up the grow room (small room only) and pumped co2 into the room, with 5 liters of vinegar i easily fill up a 2.5ft room with co2. I use a lighter above the co2 cloud to test the height of the co2, remember its heavier than oxygen so will sink to the bottom.

Leave for a hour or 2 and all the bugs will have died.
 
troutfarm

troutfarm

Well-Known Member
Wow, this is crazy that a problem as big as spider mites doesn't seem to have any sort of consensus with the community. I know there are many variables on timing and such but I would have thought that as mature as pot growing is, there would be a more specific answer. As I mentioned, I don't have time to order any products that are difficult to find so it has to be something available locally or easily made at home.

I did go out today and find some peppers as mentioned in the calibuzz post. At this point I think I will still try that process and maybe rinse more with water after to help reduce the "hot" taste of the bud. I'm also hearing great advice on just harvesting early, which I may do with a branch or two before I try the pepper method (hybrid solutions always seem to be safer).

I have one more quick question, for those who are stating that the pepper method will make the bud taste hot/bad, have you tried the pepper method and experienced this or are you just assuming that the taste will be "hot"?

Thanks everyone for the input, I'll post results as I get them.
 
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