Soil pH'd to 6.5 with chemical nutrients -Why?

IN33DW33D

Active Member
Trolling eh?

How would you define trolling?

I did start this thread afterall

As far as I understand it would be pretty hard to troll my own thread, and I invited ievolution into this thread so that he could take a look at my theory and give his input

BTW I am not ievolution and if you take a look at our grows you will see that.

Here's your post that you supposedly schooled me with-

"Soils retain water that can dissolve a range of molecules and ions. These solutions exchange gases with the soil atmosphere, contain dissolved sugars, fulvic acids and other organic acids, plant nutrients such as nitrate, ammonium, potassium, phosphate, sulfate and calcium, and micronutrients such as zinc, iron and copper. These nutrients are exchanged with the mineral and humiccomponent, that retains them in its ionic state, by adsorption. Some arid soils have sodium solutions that greatly impact plant growth. Soil pH can affect the type and amount of anions and cations that soil solutions contain and that be exchanged between the soil substrate and biological organisms."

There is definately some good info on wikipedia, but as far as showing me the flaw in my theory, this doesn't work.

All of those characteristics could easily be describing a coco-coir medium being fed with salt based nutrients
There is nothing in that description that is specific to soil

your post that you are so proud of is a complete fail(or full of retard as you put it)

Hey check out my grow btw I'm growing in coco.. let me describe my coco medium to you a bit-

My coco medium retains water that can dissolve a range of molecules and ions. These solutions exchange gases with the coco medium atmosphere, contain dissolved sugars, fulvic acids and other organic acids(I also use humic acid), plant nutrients such as nitrate, ammonium, potassium, phosphate, sulfate and calcium, and micronutrients such as zinc, iron and copper. These nutrients are exchanged with the mineral and humic component, that retains them in its ionic state, by adsorption. Some arid arid coco mediums have sodium solutions that greatly impact plant growth. Coco pH can affect the type and amount of anions and cations that coco solutions contain and that be exchanged between the coco substrate and biological organisms."

I like the way you think, but it doesn't work like that.

[h=3]Botanical[/h]Coco peat is used as a soil additive. Due to low levels of nutrients in its composition, coco peat is usually not the sole component in the medium used to grow plants. When plants are grown exclusively in coco peat, it is important to add nutrients according to the specific plants' needs. Coco peat from Sri Lanka and India contains several macro- and micro-plant nutrients, including substantial quantities of potassium.
Coco peat is not fully decomposed when it arrives and will use up available nitrogen as it does so (known as drawdown), competing with the plant if there is not enough. Poorly sourced coco peat can have excess salts in it and needs washing (check electrical conductivity of run-off water, flush if high). It has a similar cation exchange capacity to sphagnum peat, holds water well, re-wets well from dry and holds around 1000 times more air than soil.
Common uses of coco peat include:
  • As a substitute for peat, because it is free of bacteria and most fungal spores, and is sustainably produced without the environmental damage caused by peat mining.
  • Mixed with sand, compost and fertilizer to make good quality potting soil. Coco peat generally has an acidity in the range of pH - 5.5 to 6.5. It is a little on the acidic side for some plants, but many popular plants can tolerate this pH range.
  • As substrate for growing mushrooms, which thrive on the cellulose. Coco peat has high cellulose and lignin content.
 

Bonkleesha

Active Member
ok. ill type it slow since ur friend is saying that my posts are useless too....

It has to do with nutrient solubility and cation exchange capacity(CEC). In hydroponics the plants rely on the solution to supply the needed nutrients, so you have to maintain the solution pH at a point where the best balance of nutrients are soluble, while preventing precipitation, and thus availible to be taken up by the plant. In soil some of the nutrients are actually held and later released by clay particles, cation exchange, thus the pH at which the nutrients are most soluble, the ones that are only availible to the plants via the solution , is a bit higher.

go back and read my posts. all of the answers were given, but youre too smart for anything i type.

its everything related, but has a lot to do with CEC.

heres a little more info i found in the forums her. ever type ur questions into the search bar?

"Most varieties of vegetables grow at their best in a nutrient solution having a pH between 6.0 and 7.5 and a nutrient temperature between 20 and 22 degrees Celsius

In low light ( overcast days or indoor growing environments) plants take up more potassium and phosphorous from the nutrient solution so the acidity increases (pH drops). In strong intense light (clear sunny days) plants take up more nitrogen from the nutrient solution so the acidity decreases (pH rises). pH can be controlled in two ways.

Extremes in pH can result in precipitation of certain nutrients. For plant roots to be able to absorb nutrients, the nutrients must be dissolved in solution. The process of precipitation (the reverse of dissolving) results in the formation of solids in the nutrient solution, making nutrients unavailable to plants. Not all precipitation settles to the bottom of the tanks, some precipitates occur as very fine suspension invisible to the naked eye. Plants can tell us their problems through leaf symptoms (e.g. iron [Fe] deficiency) when it's too late. Iron (Fe) is one essential plant nutrient whose solubility is affected by pH which is why it is added in a chelated form (or daily), Fe deficiency symptoms occur readily. At pH values over 7, less than 50% of the Fe is available to plants. At pH 8.0, no Fe is left in solution due to iron hydroxide precipitation (Fe(OH)3 - which eventually converts to rust). As long as the pH is kept below 6.5, over 90% of the Fe is available to plants. Varying pH of summer lettuce nutrient solutions also affects the solubility of calcium (Ca) and phosphorus (P). Due to calcium phosphate precipitation (Ca3(PO4)2) the availability of Ca and P decreases at pH values above 6.0. All other nutrients stay in solution and do not precipitate over a wide pH range. Poor water quality could exacerbate any precipitation reactions that may occur. Generally in the pH range 4.0 to 6.0, all nutrients are available to plants. Precipitation reduces Fe, Ca and P availability at pH 6.0 and over .

Adjusting pH The addition of acids or alkalis to nutrient solutions is the most common and practical means to adjust pH, and can be easily automated. There are ways to minimise pH variations and they are worth some consideration. Nitrogen is the essential inorganic nutrient required in the largest quantity by plants. Most plants are able to absorb either nitrate (NO3-) or ammonium (NH4+) or both. NH4+ as the sole source of nitrogen or in excess is deleterious to the growth of many plant species. Some plants yield better when supplied with a mixture of NH4+ (ammonium) and NO3- (nitrate) compared to NO3- alone. A combination of NH4+ and NO3- can be used to buffer against changes in pH. Plants grown in nutrient solution containing only NO3- as the sole nitrogen source tend to increase solution pH, hence the need to add acid. But when approximately 10%-20% of the total nitrogen is supplied as NH4+, the nutrient solution pH is stabilised at pH 5.5. NH4+ concentration needs to be monitored as it has been shown recently that micro-organisms growing on plant root surfaces can convert the NH4+ to NO3-. Since hand-held ion-selective electrodes for measuring both NH4+ and NO3- are now available, it should be possible to accurately monitor and maintain a predetermined NO3-/NH4+ ratio throughout the life of the crop. Phosphorus is required in large amounts by plants. Interestingly, there are two forms of fertilisers containing both K and P - KH2PO4 mono-potassium phosphate (MKP) and K2HPO4 di-potassium phosphate. Equal quantities of both can be used to maintain the pH at 7.0. Using a higher proportion of K2HPO4 increases pH. MKP can be used to lower the solution pH. Buffers are solutions which resist pH change and are used to calibrate pH electrodes. Buffers can be added to nutrient solutions in an attempt to maintain pH stability. One such buffer is called 2-(N-morpholino) ethanesulfonic acid - abbreviated to MES. Many of the companies who claim better pH control with their 'specially' formulated nutrient solutions add MES to their mixes. It is important to remember when using MES, that after MES addition the pH is low and needs to be adjusted to your required level with an alkali such as potassium hydroxide (KOH). Another method of pH stabilisation is to use ion- exchange and chelating resins. Generally, these resins are small beads which have nutrients absorbed or chelated onto them - the nutrient solution circulates through the beads or the beads can be suspended in the nutrient tank. As plants absorb nutrients, more nutrients are released by the resins. The aim is to achieve controlled release of nutrients into the solution in an attempt to mimic the way the soil releases nutrients. Ideally, such release can adequately supply the growing plants' nutritional requirements and maintain pH stability.

Is pH Adjustment Critical? pH is not as critical as most hydroponicists believe. The main point is to avoid extremes in pH. Plants grow on soils with a wide range of pH. For most plant species there is an optimum pH in the region of pH 5 to pH 6."
 

Thedillestpickle

Well-Known Member
It sounds like CEC is the reason for the different pH range

I know that coco and peat both have a CEC, but it sounds like clay in soil has a much stronger CEC

I'll read into it more but that gives me a good starting point

Thanks
 

Elliesdaddy

Active Member
Let's start over-

When is a medium considered to be soil?

Answer(at least what I believe to be the answer)- A medium is considered to be "soil", "IF AND ONLY IF" it contains organic(carbon based) nutrients that must be assimilated by the micro-herd before plant uptake

Ok everyone agrees?(if not please explain)

so it follows very clearly that:

If a medium contains no organic nutrients, it is not "soil"

Still following me?

If the medium is not soil and is being fed with salt based nutrients the pH should be 5.8 for optimum nutrient uptake

ok that all makes sense...

so why are you guys bashing the idea?

and I'm not even saying its true! I'm just asking you to tell me "WHY" it is not true
Had a laugh reading this, for all of you chosing an argument rather than a debate dillest in the ganja god so shut up,
Dillest the only difference i can tell from soil and hydroponic mediums is the fact that
Nutrient Chart.jpg
Soil is the only medium that can acquire MN while on it's perfect PH level, i have not bothered with this i have just kept my ph at 5.8 and it's not bothered me but it must help in some way or form.

Just consider your question unanswered but answered with although you are feeding the nutrients yourself therefore your plant's being practically being hydroponically fed although there must be something about the texture/weight/compactness of soil which makes it's uptake of nutrients preferred with the PH of 6.5.
Whichever reason this is the way god/evolution has made this planet is the reason why all you need to know dillest is your a very talented grower and these idiots will never be able to undermine you, thank you for all the help buddy. pay a visit to my thread some time
 
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