Soil pH issue

Excellent point. When I go to get my 10g pots do you think I should switch to plastic? I went with fabric to avoid the plants getting root bound. A friend of mine uses net pots in 5 gallon buckets. I thought that was a good idea but wouldn't you have the same issues with that that you would with fabric?

ItBurns420 said:

Excellent point. When I go to get my 10g pots do you think I should switch to plastic? I went with fabric to avoid the plants getting root bound. A friend of mine uses net pots in 5 gallon buckets. I thought that was a good idea but wouldn't you have the same issues with that that you would with fabric?

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i would get the fabric still. i've run plastic vs fabric side to side twice, same plant size, same strain, same soil mix. the fabrics did better in both trials.

the problem with plastic containers is that the roots spiral around the container (a lot of times only around the edges), rather than growing in a more fibrous manner that they are designed by nature to do. When you use fabric containers, the root tips die when they reach the edge where the soil is drier. this then causes them to start shooting lateral shoots off the main roots. Now the roots will be sure to spread out in all directions, and really fill the fabric pot. remember.... "above as is below..." or something like that. the plant is like a bush, and now the roots will bush out more as the plant does.

My reasoning exactly for going to fabric in the first place. I used to use plastic and my plants would always be root bound by half way through flower.

High pH=Low Iron

ShLUbY said:

i would get the fabric still. i've run plastic vs fabric side to side twice, same plant size, same strain, same soil mix. the fabrics did better in both trials.

the problem with plastic containers is that the roots spiral around the container (a lot of times only around the edges), rather than growing in a more fibrous manner that they are designed by nature to do. When you use fabric containers, the root tips die when they reach the edge where the soil is drier. this then causes them to start shooting lateral shoots off the main roots. Now the roots will be sure to spread out in all directions, and really fill the fabric pot. remember.... "above as is below..." or something like that. the plant is like a bush, and now the roots will bush out more as the plant does.

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I totally see (and used to agree) with what you are saying, but I've found much better results when I use(d) plastic over fabrics
many agree with me, and conversely many agree with you, I think much of it is predicated on the style, technique, growing media, transplanting, temps, etc.
outside, fabrics OWN, but inside, I have much more dense rootballs when using plastic
Not arguing, just saying for some it's not advantageous
shit I have about 35 smartpots that I don't use at all
I also prefer square plastic containers simply for their ability to "fill" a grow space, rather than bulky, cumbersome fabrics that are round

ItBurns420 said:

My reasoning exactly for going to fabric in the first place. I used to use plastic and my plants would always be root bound by half way through flower.

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remember though man, when it's rootbound it means your plant is very healthy, you almost want that, only you want to sort of match the required soil amount to be the amount needed for the plant to finish
but a solid rootbound container is a damn good thing, at the end, you just don't want that happening at around week 5 or 6

greasemonkeymann said:

I totally see (and used to agree) with what you are saying, but I've found much better results when I use(d) plastic over fabrics

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Do you raise up your pots on anything or keep them on the ground? I wish there was a better product out there but until then I found the need to modify by using things to crate cavities under mine. Rollers are a necessity for me but still leave anarobic or less aerobic conditions at the bottom. Trying tennis balls now..my dog wont care

NaturalFarmer said:

Do you raise up your pots on anything or keep them on the ground? I wish there was a better product out there but until then I found the need to modify by using things to crate cavities under mine. Rollers are a necessity for me but still leave anarobic or less aerobic conditions at the bottom. Trying tennis balls now..my dog wont care

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yea, I have them on rolling "catch-trays", I always water till runoff, so I have them elevated off the catch trays, so they never are sitting in water
in the past, I've also used a gigantic flood tray that my buddy used to use, only drawback there is that the tray is black, absorbs a lot of light, more than you'd think
I think smart pots can be advantageous, outside they really are great, but inside I just don't like em.
I tried to, I used them for about three yrs, so that's about 13-15 grows or so, but I went back to plastics about 2 yrs ago
I even notice that my hybrid tea roses, and blueberry bushes don't like em either
the jasmine and lavender love em though
you also mentioned them possibly getting anaerobic at the bottom, that's another good complaint of mine, the fabrics tend to "settle" a lil more than the others, leaving the dense stuff at the edges and bottom while the perlite/aeration tends to rise to the top
sorta like gold-panning

Someone mentioned on another site about using old army blankets. Not sure if that is viable but the volume of plastic in the horticulture industry is crazy. I prefer the hydrofarm bags over smartpot but they seem to have changed their product a bit lately. I saw it in the store recently and it didnt seem to have that plastic coating that prevented breathing. Apple crates with wool instead of coco liners may work plus gives you a square footprint but that would cost me more money than its worth. Maybe Ill make them out of free pallets someday

NaturalFarmer said:

Someone mentioned on another site about using old army blankets. Not sure if that is viable but the volume of plastic in the horticulture industry is crazy. I prefer the hydrofarm bags over smartpot but they seem to have changed their product a bit lately. I saw it in the store recently and it didnt seem to have that plastic coating that prevented breathing. Apple crates with wool instead of coco liners may work plus gives you a square footprint but that would cost me more money than its worth. Maybe Ill make them out of free pallets someday

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I LOVE using coco-wool in strips, squares and small patches (like1"x 1") in my soil mix, sorta the same idea as the little rock-wool squares they use in hydro setups
but those RULE in keeping nice lil pockets of air that the roots love, also helps in drainage too
but I line the bottom of all my containers with coco-wool, helps keep the worms inside, and also keeps the worm castings from being pushed out the bottom drain-holes

@GMM

TOTALLY agree with you! Smart pots just weren't all that smart, especially inside. Even outside, it was more Meh than impressive. I quit them about 5 yrs ago. Square pots don't seem to get that root 'spin' and are pretty much all I use indoors.

Outdoors, iy's pretty much 5gal Homer buckets min to the 17gal tubs snagged on sale for $4 each.

The smarties seem to do Ok with Blumats or similar that keeps the mix constantly moist, but hand watering is iffy with water coming out the sides. Dry spots and all. Plus, they don't take kindly to being moved much, really seems to torque the soil mass out of shape.

IDK, "smart pots" seems to be such a buzz word that new growers go with them and stick with them, even if they aren't the best choice for their situation.

Just my thoughts/experiences.

Wet

i wonder if my fabrics do better because of the blumats...... honestly, i wouldn't have my garden without my blumats ever again. it makes life SOOOOOOOOOO much easier. plants and soil have the moisture they need, and if they need more or less.... its just the turn of a dial and BOOM. HIGHLY recommended product.

ShLUbY said:

i wonder if my fabrics do better because of the blumats...... honestly, i wouldn't have my garden without my blumats ever again. it makes life SOOOOOOOOOO much easier. plants and soil have the moisture they need, and if they need more or less.... its just the turn of a dial and BOOM. HIGHLY recommended product.

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I would say that just about every successful smart pot grower that I know has used Blumats. But these I can count on one hand (I did say successful), and one who uses a SIP of his own design, but without smart pots.

Wet

ok you guys have me curious again. SO I have 4 confidential cheese that are all the same clone time, same size, same everything. I'm going to do a 5 gal plastic and a 7 gal plastic, & a 7.5gal fabric and 10 gal fabric and i'll document it in my grow thread the next round... IF i can remember to do that lol

@ItBurns420

I had an "ah ha" moment. I'm pretty sure you have an Fe (iron) deficiency (it may not even ben def in your soil, but something is going on and likely inhibiting the uptake??). Try and water in a compost tea that has unsulfured molasses as it has easily dissolved iron. you should also include kelp in that tea if you have it.

NaturalFarmer said:

High pH=Low Iron

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Most likely the iron is not missing it is just not able to be absorbed by the plant at a high pH.

Hey guys. Sorry I haven't checked in for a couple of days. I've been super busy. I am also thinking that what I'm seeing is an fe deficiency due to high pH which is worrying me because phosphorus also locks out at a pH above 7 and I'm in week 3 of flower. So far I have applied a foliar of hydrated kelp tea which they really liked. They perked up big time almost immediately. I also watered with 2 TBS of fish hydro per gallon with some yukka powder. So we are brought back to my original question: what is the best/fastest way to bring the pH in check. I'm afraid that just top dressing with peat is not going to effect it enough/fast enough so I was thinking about adjusting the pH of all of my inputs down to around 6. What would be the best thing to use to accomplish this? I was thinking of using vinegar or citric acid powder but I'm afraid that it would seriously diminish the microbial activity of my teas. Speaking of tea, this is my method: I use a homemade air lift brewer and I use 2c ewc, 1/2c unsulphered bsm, 2tbs kelp meal, and 2tsp fish hydro per 5 gallons and brew for around 48 hours. Does that sound good to guys? Again, thank you for all of your input and advice. This thread has really got me thinking and learning a ton.

+1 for peat. You can do both. Top dress the peat but until then bring down the water to 6.3 with a drop of lime or lemon . Just don't do it all the time, fix the problem with the media, the water is a band-aid. Yeah could do it all the time, the problem is cannabis roots like to breathe/dry which would get you back to square one. Actually wouldn't think citric acid long term would be great either.

The other thing is about phos. They are all important not one more than any other and to show this we have Liebig's law of minimum. Boron is the most important thing in your soil if you are missing the small amount the plant needs. Balance. By the way, I understood your point.

OK sounds good. For the peat could I use promix? I have a bag sitting around that I never used. I'm not sure it would work because it's buffered and what not. Here's another question I have. I want to mulch all of my pots to allow the microbes to work the top of the pot. Is floor sweep OK for this and if so do I need to dry it out before using it?

Use raw peat otherwise it will take more media than you prob have space for in the pots. Like you said it has been buffered already.

I guess you could. Some straw or rice hill may be better. I wouldn't off my floor but are you just talking grow room? Either way it's probably fine.