So what rights are you radicalized enough to give up?

FWIW, there is an article in today’s NYT, unfortunately “subscriber only newsletter”, but the headline is “Share of Democratic Registrations is Declining: What does it mean?”. The article explores without any certain conclusions (as there are none to be reached) regarding the fact the dem registrations are declining in nearly every voter group. I understand the frustration among those new registrants. I’m a former dem who now identifies as an independent. They lost me over two decades ago.

DeadHeadX said:

FWIW, there is an article in today’s NYT, unfortunately “subscriber only newsletter”, but the headline is “Share of Democratic Registrations is Declining: What does it mean?”. The article explores without any certain conclusions (as there are none to be reached) regarding the fact the dem registrations are declining in nearly every voter group. I understand the frustration among those new registrants. I’m a former dem who now identifies as an independent. They lost me over two decades ago.

Click to expand...

Gift article, enjoy

DeadHeadX said:

FWIW, there is an article in today’s NYT, unfortunately “subscriber only newsletter”, but the headline is “Share of Democratic Registrations is Declining: What does it mean?”. The article explores without any certain conclusions (as there are none to be reached) regarding the fact the dem registrations are declining in nearly every voter group. I understand the frustration among those new registrants. I’m a former dem who now identifies as an independent. They lost me over two decades ago.

Click to expand...

For those of us who believe that Republicans and their Chosen One are a threat to our democracy, this is concerning, no doubt about it. The upcoming election is going to hinge on a few thousand votes in key districts BECAUSE the rest of the country is going to split in about the same way it did in 2020. We'd like the votes of those young people who are coming into voting age. We need all the votes we can attract to vote for Democrats in order to preserve the democracy we have lived with until now.

That said, if you have been independent for 20 years then that article isn't talking about you. Though I'm not type casting you in that category, for the most part, older independents have been politically center and leaning right but couldn't bear to align themselves with the likes of Mitt Romney. They broke for Trump in 2016 and enough split to Biden to enable him to win in 2020. It seems that many of them are moving back to Trump.

That article is talking about younger voters and the future. In that regard, both parties are showing weakness, Until now Democrats have been the party of choice for new young voters and why not? The Republican Party represents the worst of what had been a white patriarchal power bloc that has held power for decades if not the entire span of this country's life. President Trump repelled a good sized majority of young women and a majority of young men. Biden is less repellant but he's not progressive left and obviously, he's not even close to their demographic. So, four years of Biden and Democrats aren't all that attractive to newer voters due to the dominant leadership in the Democratic Party who are old heads who led this country coming into this century.

Which party in this country is trying to: take away bodily autonomy, de-fund public schools, criminalize protesting/free speech, take away citizen’s rights to pass state legislation, ban books, make it harder for the populace to vote, take away social services from the needy, and cut Medicare and social security, and destabilize the rest of the world by trying to pull out of and cripple NATO, while cuddling up to and appeasing well-known foreign dictators, and gaslighting the public about “free-dumb” at every opportunity ?

Fogdog said:

For those of us who believe that Republicans and their Chosen One are a threat to our democracy, this is concerning, no doubt about it. The upcoming election is going to hinge on a few thousand votes in key districts BECAUSE the rest of the country is going to split in about the same way it did in 2020. We'd like the votes of those young people who are coming into voting age. We need all the votes we can attract to vote for Democrats in order to preserve the democracy we have lived with until now.

That said, if you have been independent for 20 years then that article isn't talking about you. Though I'm not type casting you in that category, for the most part, older independents have been politically center and leaning right but couldn't bear to align themselves with the likes of Mitt Romney. They broke for Trump in 2016 and enough split to Biden to enable him to win in 2020. It seems that many of them are moving back to Trump.

That article is talking about younger voters and the future. In that regard, both parties are showing weakness, Until now Democrats have been the party of choice for new young voters and why not? The Republican Party represents the worst of what had been a white patriarchal power bloc that has held power for decades if not the entire span of this country's life. President Trump repelled a good sized majority of young women and a majority of young men. Biden is less repellant but he's not progressive left and obviously, he's not even close to their demographic. So, four years of Biden and Democrats aren't all that attractive to newer voters due to the dominant leadership in the Democratic Party who are old heads who led this country coming into this century.

Click to expand...

Just as an aside, I was not trying to relate this article to myself personally, but rather presented it as evidence of the deterioration of the Dems voter base. I think trying to categorize independents in any particularly political group or lean is a sure bet at inaccuracy. We’re all over the place and I lean left pretty hard. Bill Clinton opened my eyes to the fact that Dems have no moral superiority.

DeadHeadX said:

Just as an aside, I was not trying to relate this article to myself personally, but rather presented it as evidence of the deterioration of the Dems voter base. I think trying to categorize independents in any particularly political group or lean is a sure bet at inaccuracy. We’re all over the place and I lean left pretty hard. Bill Clinton opened my eyes to the fact that Dems have no moral superiority.

Click to expand...

Fast forward thirty years. Things are different. Republicans have forfeited any morality at all. Democrats haven’t. The neither-side argument abets the overthrow faction.

cannabineer said:

Fast forward thirty years. Things are different. Republicans have forfeited any morality at all. Democrats haven’t. The neither-side argument abets the overthrow faction.

Click to expand...

I’m not trying to compare the two. I cannot affiliate myself with the Dems. It doesn’t mean I’m gong to support the devil.

Edit to add: honestly, I think most would benefit to be independents and not officially tied to one of the two parties. There needs to be more. But becoming independent can really help folk take off their political blinders.

DeadHeadX said:

I’m not trying to compare the two. I cannot affiliate myself with the Dems. It doesn’t mean I’m gong to support the devil.

Click to expand...

I’m curious: what did Clinton do to repel you?

cannabineer said:

I’m curious: what did Clinton do to repel you?

Click to expand...

He had an extramarital affair with a young, barely legal intern, and then he lied about it under oath. I held the man in extremely high regard. Then I didn’t.

I would just like to see more people engage and vote…and don’t really care what party they affiliate with but get involved and really look at the issues not the rhetoric put out be the sales efforts of the 2 party system (US).

No altering quotes and no ad hominem attacks.

DeadHeadX said:

He had an extramarital affair with a young, barely legal intern, and then he lied about it under oath. I held the man in extremely high regard. Then I didn’t.

Click to expand...

I cannot put that in the same league as lying about Iraqi wmd as a pretext for a needless war. Thousands of ours dead, perhaps a million deaths overall, and national reputation harmed by this imperialist adventure.

cannabineer said:

Can you link to journalism that substantiates your claim that Biden is a (whose) puppet?

Click to expand...

Sure, this is from yesterday, he wants to know if he is allowed to take questions.


There's lots more instances where he states that he's not allowed to take questions or is going to get into trouble for taking questions. This has gotten worst over time and was some what amusing yesterday. If you need help finding them, let me know.

Timezone said:

Sure, this is from yesterday, he wants to know if he is allowed to take questions.

Biden's aides quickly dismiss the press after the president asks if he can take a couple of questions | Fox News Video

Engaging with the public during his speaking engagement in Michigan's Saginaw County, President Biden's team quickly rushed the media away when the president asked if he could "take a couple of questions."

www.foxnews.com

There's lots more instances where he states that he's not allowed to take questions or is going to get into trouble for taking questions. This has gotten worst over time and was some what amusing yesterday. If you need help finding them, let me know.

Click to expand...

I asked for journalism, not Murdochery.

N.b. you linked to a vid. Vids are unreliable; too easily edited for subliminal effect. Especially on a site propagating the big lies.

Also: whose puppet?

cannabineer said:

I asked for journalism, not Murdochery.

Click to expand...

WOW! Where do you go for that. I think what you believe as "journalism" died when Obama signed the Smith–Mundt Modernization Act of 2012. This allowed main stream media the freedom to lie to us. If you want to know more, start your research with the Smith–Mundt Act of 1948... but I digress.

I googled the event yesterday. This happened to pop up along with others. I blindly chose the first. I do not normally watch FOX as I do not have cable. It's a video. You don't like the source. Okay. Tell me what sources you trust, and I will find the same instance from those sources.

Anyone here, what are the sources that guide you?

DeadHeadX said:

Just as an aside, I was not trying to relate this article to myself personally, but rather presented it as evidence of the deterioration of the Dems voter base. I think trying to categorize independents in any particularly political group or lean is a sure bet at inaccuracy. We’re all over the place and I lean left pretty hard. Bill Clinton opened my eyes to the fact that Dems have no moral superiority.

Click to expand...

Absolutely, by definition, "independent" means the person doesn't support the established political parties. However, analysis of independent voters do show tendencies. This doesn't apply to all but does help us understand what is happening when, say, George W wins an election by what was it? 12 votes in Florida? Elections are strongly affected by the sentiment of independent voters. As you say, there are plenty of differences in that grouping. Some are Bernie Sanders progressives who can't stand the more wishy washy "leans left of center" Democrats. Some are Black voters who don't see either party as being on their side.

But looking at voting patterns, a large chunk of independent voters are conservative-leaning who support the status quo. The majority of independents voted for Bill Clinton, then George W, then Obama, then Trump, then Biden and seem to be shifting back to Trump. Some voted for Nader in 2000 as a protest against having to choose between Gore and Shrub. Enough to swing that election, not that I'm blaming the Nader voter for eight years of Shrub. In 2008 there was strong support for Obama among Independents because Shrub's administration tanked our economy. After 8 years of Obama's middling bad economy, endless war, nothing to show for improving equity in this country, they took a look at Hillary and didn't just say no thank you, they said hell no. So we ended up with worse in Trump.

I did not support or vote for Biden in the 2020 primary. I voted for Elizabeth Warren, mostly because I liked her, not because I thought she was going to win it all. In fact she had already dropped out of the race. I also voted for her because I wanted her to have more delegates at the DNC that summer. I don't think either Warren or Bernie could have beaten Trump because in my opinion, there were too many conservative-minded Independent Voters who would support Trump over either of them So, Biden it was and in 2020, he beat Trump. Not because Biden was beloved but because Trump was a terrible president.

So, here we are at the 2024 election and voters will choose between Biden and Trump. Again. It seems that a lot of Independents who voted for Trump in 2016 and Biden in 2020 are shifting toward Trump in 2024. At least that's the sentiment showing up in today's polls.

That's why I found interesting the article you twigged us to about new voters coming into their age of majority and registering Independent. It shows why Biden is lagging Trump in opinion polls right now. It's a dose of reality for Democrats who simply assume young voters will choose them. Regardless of what the polls say, I still think the race is Biden's to lose but he will lose to Trump if those younger independent voters stay home on election day. So, what Biden's campaign does about that is important.

Thanks @curious2garden for posting that link.

I personally think the biggest obstacles to safety in the USA are the 4th and 5th amendments. Imagine if enforcers didn't have to worry about things like reasonable suspicion, probable cause, due process, and unreasonable searches. The fine men and women of enforcement agencies at both the local and federal levels could just use their training and expert powers of deduction to clean up crime.

"If you have nothing to hide, you should have nothing to fear and consent to a search" - Every law man without probable cause frustrated by the protections of the 4th amendment.

7CardBud said:

I personally think the biggest obstacles to safety in the USA are the 4th and 5th amendments. Imagine if enforcers didn't have to worry about things like reasonable suspicion, probable cause, due process, and unreasonable searches. The fine men and women of enforcement agencies at both the local and federal levels could just use their training and expert powers of deduction to clean up crime.

"If you have nothing to hide, you should have nothing to fear and consent to a search" - Every law man without probable cause frustrated by the protections of the 4th amendment.

Click to expand...

Yeah man. As Hannity once said on his show on Fox, if a cop pulls you over, comply. People should comply with the LEO in any and all situations if they are black, if they are brown, if they drive a crappy car, but not if they are Donald Trump or any other Republican leader or a karen.

You were just kidding, right?

cannabineer said:

N.b. you linked to a vid. Vids are unreliable; too easily edited for subliminal effect. Especially on a site propagating the big lies.

Also: whose puppet?

Click to expand...

LOL! Sure they are and with AI, it's gonna get worse.

So what you really meant to ask is "Can you link to journalism, that I approve of, that substantiates your claim that Biden is a (whose) puppet?"

So I ask again what is your preferred source and I will gather everything that I can find, from your preferred source, on the question at hand,

As to whose puppet... That is a very long story that will take some time to tell with all of the references involved and it goes far beyond Joe Biden. I am working on that but this is not the place, not yet.